[Closed] Should there be child-free zones on planes and trains?

Who's getting angry? Not me I'm having a great time 😛

[i]It's the ones that just sit there and turn their own iPod up and hope the noise/ bad behavior goes away that get the dirty looks. [/i]

But that wasn't the point of discussion. Irrespective of why the kids are making a noise/pissing about, it's not your living room, it's a transport system and sadly you have to share it with people who might not meet your requirements.

Having kids doesn't generate some pheromone but it clearly makes you a more rounded and understanding individual if the discussion here is anything to go by.

[i]I detest children, so it gets my vote.[/i

You must detest yourself then.

All you tossers whop think the world should stop because you have [s]managed to navigate your way through childhood and think that adult life should be removed from real life[/s] got kids and think that gives you the right to inflict them on everyone else should go and boil your heads.
How chuffin ignorant.

FIFY

No, you didn't fix anything.

What did your parents do with you then? I shudder to think, tbh.

My 2 year old is so damned charming that he'd win over the most ardent of child haters in this thread, 9 times out of 10.

But that 1 time in 10, my god I apologise with all the sincerity I'm capable of. And it's so much worse for me than it is for you, believe me, I'm not enjoying this either! 😳

Kids can be surprisingly entertaining, rather than get all huffy with them try engaging with them.

It's amazing the effect that someone paying them attention, other than to tell them to shut up or sit down, can have on them when travelling as Tomaso found out.

Kids are, in general, great. It's the adults that are usually the problem.

I fly a lot, and usually long haul overnight and it does bug me when there are troops of screaming kids in the cabin with me.

If the parents are making an effort and not letting the sprogs run wild then it's ok. But too often they run up and down the aircraft annoying everyone.

And, to make it worse, ickle babies are often travelling free on the parents lap, so my sleep (which has cost a lot of money) gets disrupted.

When smoking was allowed on planes there was a smoking section. So why not a kids section?

BA are supposed to have a policy of not allowing children upstairs on a 747 so I usually book a seat up there.

If you don't like kids fly upper deck business as mentioned. No kids or poor people. Perfect.

It could be so much worse - posted by a mate on Facebook last night:

"hoping the morons from TOWIE who were at our hotel and now on our flight are not sitting anywhere near us"

What did your parents do with you then? I shudder to think, tbh.

That way people with a hatred of kids can book well away from that area (charge them more for it?) and families can book the family area (for no extra charge).

Hang on.

Their lifestyle choices are impacting mine, therefore I have to pay extra to be left alone, whereas the parents get extra facilities for free? Sure, that sounds fair.

I'm genuinely shocked at the hostility here, not from the people wanting some peace but from the parents. I'm starting to understand where the problems lie, with such aggressive attitudes. "Bigot?" [i]Really?![/i]

Here's the deal. I don't mind 'kids being kids' but some are simply ill-behaved little terrors, and whilst sometimes this is despite a parent's best efforts, sometimes the adults just sit by and ignore them whilst they run amok.

It's very easy to say "just ignore it" or "have a word", but in practice parents often tend to be so protective of their little darlings that any action that suggests their offspring is anything other than the second coming is met with hostility (as ably demonstrated here).

For instance, I once spent a long-haul flight being continually kicked in the back; I turned and asked the woman, politely, if she could do something about it. I got told to "wind my f'king neck in and turn around." The kid then played up twice as much. Wrong thing to do? If I'd told the kid off instead of asking her god only knows what would happen, I'd probably have got punched, and in any case I simply shouldn't have to that. What else should I do, report it to the staff? Comments here would suggest that I might as well start buying the Daily Mail if I did that. Or grin and bear it? Which is what I did, which meant I landed home without a wink of sleep and had to take an extra day off work.

How is that fair? Is a bit of kip really too much to ask for? Is being left alone by someone else's kids such an outrageous request?

Dr S**** is just jelous of the extra leg room parents with babies get.

Heaven forbid a baby travelling for free when using the same seat as a parent. 😆

A parent realising that not everyone wants to listen to their screaming kids and actually make an effort to do something about it? I can see that would make you shudder.

To be honest, from your general contribution, I was expecting something far less normal.

You can remember being quiet all the time then? And that you had to be considerate to other people with whom you were sharing the transport? Even as a toddler? That's a hell of a memory and ability to understand your surroundings. Or are you relying on the unbiased relating of your travelling adventures from Mum and Dad?

If you don't like kids fly upper deck business as mentioned. No kids or poor people. Perfect.

And twice the price. Why should I pay almost double the fair to avoid some people's inconsiderate behaviour? That's the same argument as "girls should avoid dressing provocatively if they don't want to be raped," you're blaming the victim.

FFS

The suggestion is an area without any privalage or extra features, just some peace and quiet.

The parents response is funny. I demand that I be able to sit next to anyone. Especially if they don't want me to and then they are an ignorant t***.

Difficult one this.

Only real problems I've had had been one when in cattle class on a flight with Thomsons during Skool holidays. It wasn't so bad, 60 or so of the passengers were kids and they all shouted and screemed at once, drowned out the Parents talking about house prices/skool fees and food bills nicely.. 🙄

Don;t hink you could do this effectively really. You just have to manage the problem, like drink or headphones..

Hang on.

Their lifestyle choices are impacting mine,

yadda,
yadda,
yadda,

How is that fair? Is a bit of kip really too much to ask for? Is being left alone by someone else's kids such an outrageous request?

You can replace all of the above with adults "misbehaving" as well. Can I book a seat away from the computery looking geek that smells a bit and hasn't washed his hair in weeks because he spends too much time in a darkened room instead of interacting with humans on a normal social level? Can I book a seat away from the stag do? Etc etc.

I was on one plane where there was a screaming child and the guardian were removed from the flight!
Was a very odd affair. The child was perhaps 4 years old and once we started taxing out she went berserk - properly upset rather than a tantrum and as well as screaming she would not stay belted into the seat. The staff did their utmost to help but the guardian (I think it might have been grandma) could not give a toss. In the end the captain came back and said if she doesn't stay in the seat, you're off. So they got chucked off. a 747 must burn quite a bit of gas whilst sitting on the runway for an hour and a half!

Aha!

It's just dawned on me!

This is another one of those tongue-in-cheek "1st world problems" threads isn't it?

All of the moany intolerant posts above make perfect sense when you realise they're being sarcastic!

You can replace all of the above with adults "misbehaving" as well.

Sure. But in my experience, adults are generally a bit more receptive to being asked to tone it down. They're less likely to get irrationally defensive than if you suggest their offsping aren't perfect.

Not saying this applies to everyone of course, people can be lovely or arseholes irrespective of their parental status.

Kids are fine, if they're acting up then just give them a clip round the ear. I'm sure their parents would understand.

But in my experience

Obviously...

In mine, as I wrote earlier on the thread, on balance, in around twenty years of flying, as an adult, I've found adults to be more annoying on planes than children. Same goes for buses. Trains. Roads (well, to be fair, kids can't drive). Drunken groups of males tend not to take instruction from a shortarse to STFU too well. Far more likely to meet a intolerant, drunk, ignorant, anti-social, sociopathic adult on a plane than the equivalent child. Perhaps some of them post on this thread.

Yup. That's anectdotal evidence for you.

I used to do a lot of flying. Screaming kids in economy are a fact of travel which you just need to accept. For back kicking etc just ask the stewardess to deal with it - it works a treat. But sometimes it goes too far....

One flight to west coast I had managed to get some kip. I awoke as we were descending to land and went to put my shoes on only to find that they were gone from by my feet. Now I was flying in during the day straight to a meeting and they were my only shoes (I always travel light for short trips). I informed the stewardess who said that I would have to wait until everyone left the plane to search for them. Another passenger glibly informed me that some kid had pinched them and had been passing them around the plane for some of the flight, but he would not finger the kid. I waited, we searched the plane and eventually found my shoes. This of course put me at the back of the US immigration line which soured my mood even more. I had visions of trying to explain approaching the immigration desks in my socks 🙂 .

Of course not all kids are theiving scumbags and not all parents think that this kind of behviour is ok.

I still don't know why I had not put my shoes in the overhead locker that flight which was my usual practice.

Yup. That's anectdotal evidence for you.

I'll have a pint with you that adults cause more trouble than kids though. 😉

On my last flight with my 7 and 4 year old daughters we were disturbed by a large group of Liverpudlian gentlemen on a 'stag do' who thought everyone was up for the party. Lovely though they were they were loud, drank a lot and were up and down the aisle going to the loo! Why can't they have a revelry section for such types? I mean its their choice to have fun, drink, party etc why should I not be entitled to quiet so my children can read and draw in peace?

I did think of telling them that they were being loud a drunk, but you know what large groups of loud drunk men can be like when you tell them they are being drunk and loud!

Instead I practiced two small virtues - tolerance and acceptance. I chatted to them and wished them well and had a laugh.

tolerance and acceptance.

Steady now...no need to go all reasonable on our asses. 🙂

What about people who fart on planes?
Or those that recline their seat all the way back as soon as the plane takes off?
Or larger people who need more seat space than others?
Or people who take a massive suitcase on as carry-on luggage as well as a handbag, coat, carrier bags full of duty-free, etc etc?
People who miss their boarding call and delay the plane?
People up and down to use the loo all the time?

Flying is tricky, we're all sharing a confined space for a protracted period of time, plenty to get narked about if you let it.

Chill out and be tolerant

It's nice and quiet upstairs, you know. 8)

Oh, and noise cancelling headphones FTW! 🙂

Or those that recline their seat all the way back as soon as the plane takes off?

Seats are supposed to be reclined, otherwise they wouldn't be reclineable. I never understood that gripe.

It's nice and quiet upstairs, you know.

Oh to have the life of an international stationery salesman...

I once was on a flight from Malaysia to Heathrow and sitting in a alone 3-seat block next to the window. About 2 hours into the flight a bloke came and asked if the aisle seat was taken. He sat down and when I asked him why he was moving he said it was because the front centre seats had 2 kids in them that were making a racket. I agreed that they were quite annoying but at least down here it wasn't as bad as up front and I added that I didn't understand why the parents weren't controlling them. He said that the reason at least one parent wasn't controlling them was because he was the father of the two brats and he was about to strangle them both if he didn't get 30 mins quiet time. Made me laugh. Probably didn't make the people sitting around them laugh.

I find adults who don't exert a modicum of control on their kids extremely inconsiderate. Likewise I find adults who act badly on flights equally inconsiderate. I'm not talking about the crying kids or the kids suffering from air sickness or who are just chatty but the seat kicking, screaming about being bored, fighting with siblings type. Surely THAT level of control isn't unreasonable.

Seats are supposed to be reclined, otherwise they wouldn't be reclineable. I never understood that gripe.

I think it depends on the airline. I don't think the seat manufacturers and Ryan Air/Easy Jet had the same thing in mind. Reclining on a cheapo airline usually leaves you looking up into the face of the person behind you 😆

Darcy, the postitdex is soaring at the moment. Go long on Pritt Stik.

😉

Hang on.

Their lifestyle choices are impacting mine, therefore I have to pay extra to be left alone, whereas the parents get extra facilities for free? Sure, that sounds fair.

That's why there is a question mark - it was something for discussion from either side of the fence. Ideally it would be no extra but the fact is charging extra reduces demand from people who don't really care but take something anyway and then ruin it for others. But if you consider it as a 'work' or 'quiet' zone then it's worth it to get away from fully grown undesirables on a plane....which leads me onto the next point...

The biggest nuisance for me on a plane is other fully grown adults who are rude, inconsiderate and/or drink too much etc etc. Having a family zone also has the benefit of getting kids away from those kinds of people. Alcohol might be prohibited from that area. And likewise a quiet area gets people away from noisy people too. Business class does not mean you are not going to end up near someone loud and annoying.

Business class does not mean you are not going to end up near someone loud and annoying.

I once had to endure somebody waffling on about post-it notes all the way to Singapore. There was something vaguely familiar about him but I haven't put my finger on it yet...

Y Darc.... 😆 Genius! 🙂

INRAT

But I shouldn't have to suffer people's children.

[s]Children aren't the problem. Parents who can't control their children[/s] [b]Intolerant people[/b] are the problem.

Selfish parents are the problem

Won't someone think of the adults!!!!

I don't think there [i]is[/i] a problem...

I'm an adult and if I so wish I could cause all sorts of hassle.

[img] [/img]

I think kids should all have to go in a special area up the back of the plane, with the blacks.

Er. Given that all we are talking about is a different section of the plane with the same facilities, service etc.. I don't really understand why all the parents here have a problem. Nobody is being discriminiated against. How does it effect you in any way by being in a child-tolerant section? I know. Let's just rephrase it so that anyone who isn't up for having a jolly, noisy child-centred journey has to be moved into a separate section & aren't allowed to join in with everyone else. Ego satisfied now?

If I was travelling and wanted to do something which I knew to be disturbing amd irritating to other people, I would be perfectly happy to move to another section so that I could carry on as I wanted to without being anti-social.

What is it about a certain sort of parent which makes them so selfish & incionsiderate.

Shouldn't this thread be titled [i]"Should there be child-free zones [s]on planes and trains[/s]"[/i] ??

I fail to see why special rules would be necessary on two PUBLIC transport systems.

There's always some git who will annoy you on a plane. Last time it was the woman who had a pointless argument with the cabin crew and delayed takeoff by over an hour, and the fat bloke who crammed himself in next to me and decided to expand his personal space to encompass half of mine.

These joys, and mewling children, are all part of the thrill that is cheap air tickets. Perhaps if people didn't board thinking they were about to experience something from the golden age of travel, the misery and inconvenience of being stuffed into a box with 100 other people would be more palatable. Moaning about it is akin to moaning about the number of people on the Northern Line at 8.30am on a Monday.

it is akin to moaning about the number of people on the Northern Line at 8.30am on a Monday.

Except that for long-haul, there is an easy way to solve it which causes no discomfort or discrimination.....Except that it seems to offend people who want to inflict themselves on others.

[quote=imnotverygood ] people who want to inflict themselves on others.
Who are these people?

Parents, Colin, Parents 😉

Business class does not mean you are not going to end up near someone loud and annoying.

I sat in front of Jimmy Tarbuck once, The only reason I'm able to type this is that a one hour flight was too short a time to properly plan and execute my suicide.

As for the no kiddie section, can't see why parents are bothered, I thought the proposed swingers area at the back of the plane was intended to be pretty small. You won't be missing out on much. It'll still be cramped, uncomfortable and have poor food. I expect there'll still be overweight people spilling over the edge of their seats and the inconsiderate that insist on reclining their seats despite hearing the knees of the person behind crack as they do so.

So, in summary, some kids and adults are ****s.

Parents, Colin, Parents

Added to that...

Stag & Hen Dos
Fat People
Noisy Eaters
Snorers
I'm-the-only-person-on-this-plane types
Rude Cabin Crew
Snooty Pilots
Incontinent Duffers who won't sit in an aisle seat
Stationery Salesmen
Bores
Spinsters and Bachelors who hate anybody young

So having a child tolerant zone in order to `control' the odd noisy kid on flight, would cause no discomfort to those parents who have to sit in that zone with perfectly well behaved kids? Or is it becasue they are parents they somehow are inmune and don't need their sleep like the businessman?

Except that for long-haul, there is an easy way to solve it which causes no discomfort or discrimination.....

Except that children noise is only one of many potential anoyances that may inflict themselves on you or everyone else. Why solve only one of them?

As well as a no kids zone we need the following segregated zones.

+ Space zone - No excess hand luggage or body fat.
+ No Sleeping zone - If sat in an aisle seat in the zone you cannot sleep in case the people inside of you need a wee.
+ No broadsheets zone - No oversized reading material that may restrict other peoples view.
+ No toilets zone - If there is no loo then there is no reason to get out of your seat and anoy everyone who has to move
+ No chatting zone - People don't want to overhear your missinformed opinions

Or we could all stop being a load of shefilsh twunts and get on with life.

Or we could all stop being a load of shefilsh twunts and get on with life.

Actually I prefer your multi zone model for aircraft seating.

[i]Nobody is being discriminiated against. How does it effect you in any way by being in a child-tolerant section?[/i]

No, hang on. that means I've got to sit with all the noisy, spewing little bastards running riot. Sod that!

jfletch - Member

+ Space zone - No excess hand luggage or body fat.

Let's address the fact that I weigh 60kg yet if I carry on 33kg of luggage I need to pay extra, but the 120kg bloke with 32kg of luggage doesn't, while we're at it.

And a solution to the knotty problem of people who take window seats, then don't look out of the window.

Children they are horrid little rats

And the people who take an aisle seat and then don't take the opportunity to oggle the stewardesses bum each time she walks past.

What ?. Still going ?. Goodness me...

So, a story I heard today, one I've been thinking about since and while this thread has been raging.

Theres a 5 month old baby in the local ICU, its there now, right as I type. Its been ill since its birth. The product of the union between two teenagers. The father has never been to see it and the mother was asked to attend once. She saw the child, excused herself from the room for feeling ill and disappeared from the hospital. So, that poor baby lays there each day, no family, no visits, nothing but the meager attention the nurses can afford while caring for the other sickly babies there. Because of its condition, it has to be fed something which, when the bottle is removed from its mouth, it pulls a face that clearly indicates that it hates the taste, yet the child is hungry enough to swallow the fuild anyway.

And then I come back to this place, and I see this pathetic, pointless bickering and I am reminded of just how faking shit this world is and why I am so f'ing sick of it all. We should be ashamed of ourselves.

My two kids weigh less together than I do. On our last flight, their two cases weighed about the same as my one. Their tickets cost exactly the same as mine. All airline passengers should be weighed with luggage and charged accordingly.

While I'm on, fatties should be made to sit in an arse width measuring device prior to boarding. If any part of their person overlaps the adjacent seat, they can pay double or be dragged through a giant slicer, like on a whaling ship, to narrow them down to regulation width.

Farting is fine though, it's a pressurised cabin and the food is dire.

And a solution to the knotty problem of people who take window seats, then don't look out of the window.

Make the plane out of glass or perspex or something like that. Apart from the toilets of course. Problem solved.

Also, Solo, are you suggesting STW somehow creates all the misery in the world? I had suspected as much.

Apart from the toilets of course.

I disagree. Every plane toilet should have a window! The "Loo with a view" on a BA747 is ace!

And, on the topic of farting...

Children are like farts. Your own are a thing of constant wonder and amusement. Those of other people? Vile.

Solo, are you suggesting STW somehow creates all the misery in the world?

Far as I can tell, he's suggesting that because there are worse problems in the world, we're not allowed to discuss relatively minor issues.

Solo, you seem to have mistaken this for a debate to be taken seriously

I disagree. Every plane toilet should have a window!

I was saying the whole thing should not be made of glass. A window sounds perfectly acceptable but I don't think (m)any of us want to see each other using the toilet and the resultant mess zooming around pipes.

+ Space zone - No excess hand luggage or body fat.
+ No Sleeping zone - If sat in an aisle seat in the zone you cannot sleep in case the people inside of you need a wee.
+ No broadsheets zone - No oversized reading material that may restrict other peoples view.
+ No toilets zone - If there is no loo then there is no reason to get out of your seat and anoy everyone who has to move
+ No chatting zone - People don't want to overhear your missinformed opinions

I take it you object to 'quiet carriages' on trains?

kids are kids simple as that, most dont make noise deliberately just to annoy you, the only people who do that are adults.

most dont make noise deliberately just to annoy you

[img] [/img]

My kids' farts are a thing of wonder 🙂

Let's look at it another way. You are the parent of a young family. You go on holiday to a big resort. The resort has several separate blocks in its grounds. It tries to put the twenty-somethings who want to party all night separately from families how might want to go to bed earlier. Are you going to object to the bigotry of the hotel? Would you sympathise with the stag party who objected to the intolerance of others and who insist that they are put in the same block as the families with kids?

Seriously. Why are people objecting to being put in one part of a plane rather than another (identical) section? Some people want to sleep on a ten hour flight. If that can be done without inconveniencing others what exactly is the problem?

What ?. Still going ?. Goodness me...

So, a story I heard today, one I've been thinking about since and while this thread has been raging.

Theres a 5 month old baby in the local ICU, its there now, right as I type. Its been ill since its birth. The product of the union between two teenagers. The father has never been to see it and the mother was asked to attend once. She saw the child, excused herself from the room for feeling ill and disappeared from the hospital. So, that poor baby lays there each day, no family, no visits, nothing but the meager attention the nurses can afford while caring for the other sickly babies there. Because of its condition, it has to be fed something which, when the bottle is removed from its mouth, it pulls a face that clearly indicates that it hates the taste, yet the child is hungry enough to swallow the fuild anyway.

And then I come back to this place, and I see this pathetic, pointless bickering and I am reminded of just how faking shit this world is and why I am so f'ing sick of it all. We should be ashamed of ourselves.

[img] [/img]

Children are like farts. Your own are a thing of constant wonder and amusement. Those of other people? Vile.

😆

Last flight back from the US, I was in business class next to a poor mother and her mentally disabled son. She wouldn't stop apologizing for his behavior - clearly very anxious, until I told her I was a) a parent b) can sleep through anything on planes. c) to stop worrying, he'll soon be asleep. Of course I was asleep before the end of the climb and never heard anything all the way home. I have no idea about other passengers 😉

And yes, I've sat upstairs on long-haul with a family of seven (five kids). Kids burn out eventually on long-haul. All of them!

Almost everyone I know would travel in a kid free zone!

Especially when they wake up and scream during the night on a long haul flight!

Dammmmnnnnn you bob!

I was going to reply with a "Cool story, Hansel"

🙁

i spent the whole of a Flight from dallas to heathrow with a noisy 5 year old literally running up and down the aircraft crying, kicking me + the chair and he stole my ****ing pillow