[Closed] Should my recently graduated son expect to work 55 hpw for £17500 pa?

Unfortunately, although you will have the correct training, you won't have experience to put that training to good use for a year or so. even within each individual company,

If you have qualifications they want experience, if you have experience they want qualifications, and if you have both then you're overqualified. Can't bloody win.

5 months with no salary, and having to pass multiple tests and assignments to potentially get a £24k job sounds pretty harsh to me.

It does sound harsh, but what are they earning 5 or 10 years down the line? I don't know the answer in this case, but that's what really matters.

why would you factor in 4 weeks non paid holiday to a minimum wage calculation ?

pro rata - for 55hours i would have been earning more than 17.5k as a bike mechanic - id have been happier to continue doing that than work for enterprise.

trail_rat - Member
why would you factor in 4 weeks non paid holiday to a minimum wage calculation ?

As for the OP,

My first IT job after Uni was working in tech support hell for the princely salary of £7,500. Apparently, I was one of the highest paid new starters they'd ever had.

£17k for a graduate role sounds pretty good to me, but 55 hours a week is a bit rich. Questions I'd be asking are 'what else do you get for that' - eg, is there a guaranteed rise / promotion after a period of time, or other benefits? And, what's the commute like, is it five minutes away or a three hour round trip? Eleven hours a day in work, plus lunch, plus travel, means you might be away from home for fourteen hours each day; the novelty of that will wear off [i]really [/i]fast.

Still, as others have said, the best way to get a good job is to already have a poor one. Employers need to up their game to win you over, rather than assume you'll take any old rubbish as it's better than signing on.

If you have qualifications they want experience, if you have experience they want qualifications, and if you have both then you're overqualified. Can't bloody win.

Haha. This rings true.

However I've found it very hard to locate good graduates with real talent in my line of work, despite the supposed glut of them.

And it's even harder to hang onto them as freelancers because they naturally prefer a bit of job security and the possibility of career progression.

you would be making the assumption that what they are doing is legal, it's probably not and they are just assuming that most people won't question it and as there is no hourly rate not clock what a low rate they are on.

and for one I really do not want to be seen by a doctor on the end of an 80hr week.

Yeah best to go on a Monday.

Saying it's easier to find a job when you're in a job might be true, but if it's a completely unrelated, poor-quality job it can reflect badly on you to some employers. In my industry who or what companies you've got on your CV is pretty important to a lot of the decent employers - there's a degree of snobbishness involved which I hate but unfortunately it's how it is.

I still think he'd be better off doing some work experience or temping in a few different businesses to work out where his interest lies, then really targeting that sector.

On the one hand £17.5k is better than dole money and [b]it's easier to find a job when you've already got one.[/b]

It all depends on the prospects - I would pretty much expect that in the main accounting firms - but the potential is huge.

In the media world you could be expected to be a runner for less than that (or free) until you prove yourself.

its a dog eat dog world and a degree helps a lot but doesn't mean £40k out the door.

there's a degree of snobbishness involved which I hate but unfortunately it's how it is.

Doesn't sound like he's going to be looking for jobs in any elitist places anytime soon though.

a degree helps a lot but doesn't mean £40k out the door.

It never did really, but you can earn a lot more than £40K down the line. Also best not to forget that job satisfaction and pay are not related as closely as some people think.

But I have to say that working for a car leasing company doesn't sound all that compelling to me!

Hey, I started out mopping the floor just like you guys. But now... now I'm washing lettuce. Soon I'll be on fries; then the grill. And pretty soon, I'll make assistant manager, and that's when the big bucks start rolling in.

Sorry, couldn't help thinking of this gem.

f it's a completely unrelated, poor-quality job it can reflect badly on you to some employers.

That's still a win-win situation though, because you almost certainly want to avoid working for judgemental arseholes.

What looks better, that a candidate went and got a stop-gap job whilst searching for a career, or that they sat at home all day watching porn and eating Wotsits?

What looks better, that a candidate went and got a stop-gap job whilst searching for a career, or that they sat at home all day watching porn and eating Wotsits?

Perfect training for a career in IT surely?

Saying it's easier to find a job when you're in a job might be true, but if it's a completely unrelated, poor-quality job it can reflect badly on you to some employers. In my industry who or what companies you've got on your CV is pretty important to a lot of the decent employers - there's a degree of snobbishness involved which I hate but unfortunately it's how it is.

But the OPs son doesn't even know what career he wants. So he has to make a start somewhere.

I'd agree there's little point taking a horticulture job if you want to be an engineer.

Yeah, not arguing with that.
Stop-gap job > sitting at home.
But also:
Relevant work experience > soul-destroying stop-gap job.

And there's nothing to say he won't be aiming at higher-end companies at some point - his degree and uni wouldn't hold him back.

For those saying that it's easier to find a job when you've got one, there is another side to this. I had pretty much decided I didn't want to do what I do. However when trying to switch career path no one was interested in me. I had a job, but it hadn't trained me in what they did and so they only had my degree to go on. So I had no experience. In this day and age where people of my age are specialising at degree level employers want precisely what they're after and don't seem flexible.

He would be better off not taking anything and finding what he actually wants to do at a wage he's willing to take.

If he's got a 2:1 from a mediocre university, then Kantaar would be a much better company to apply for. 22k a year, a lot of the jobs are in London though and most days you will be working a normal 9-5.

My wife did a one year internship with them as she panicked when interviewing for the big high paying city companies, however, she got sent on a 6 week international secondment to train employees in an overseas office. The company has put her in good shape to find a high paying job when you combine the level of responsibility they gave her, with her first, her thesis which is probably got to get published and her awards for academic performance.

Time to consult an expert!...

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Has anyone actually said what the job is yet?

My thoughts:

- Could well be £17.5k + commission if it's some kind of sales led role, so may well pay very well if he performs

- Likely to be client/customer facing - this is great experience. Too many grads/young employees now have very poor social/client facing skills. Great experience for the future if nothing else

- It's buyer's market at the moment. Employers can afford to be picky, less so employees. As has been said, it's better to be in work than not.

However when trying to switch career path no one was interested in me. I had a job, but it hadn't trained me in what they did and so they only had my degree to go on. So I had no experience. In this day and age where people of my age are specialising at degree level employers want precisely what they're after and don't seem flexible

No, but neither does sitting in a job that is not relevant to what you want to do and pays peanuts for mad hours.

Also as a graduate job choose time make a choice, how many other things has he got in the pipeline?

Peanuts can be spent.

Experience working is useful experience. Gaps on CVs have to be explained too.

when i graduated - life didnt really change....

i carried on working doing what i always did - gardening / bike mechanic and on weekends i was a barman.

i continued doing that while applying till a job that interested me offered me a position - then i moved to near that job..

there was absolutely no time to be sitting on a sofa.

If you have qualifications they want experience, if you have experience they want qualifications, and if you have both then you're overqualified. Can't bloody win.

This, a university that I worked out had a ridiculous amount of responsibility for someone on pay grade scale. I was doing research, if something went wrong I could have dicked up a 50-100k experiment, at the same I was doing all the basic technical/housekeeping duties for the senior technician who was too busy doing a part time PHd. All for 17k a year. They had four interviewees turn up for that job, I beat a Cambridge graduate to get it. Now they have upped the requirements for the job even further - yet they will probably be wondering why no one will turn up for the interview.

Human resources are the cause of it, they often want the moon on a stick.

But I have to say that working for a car leasing company doesn't sound all that compelling to me!

Multinational company so it could be anything though, marketing, finance, HR etc...

Stop gap jobs are ok, so long as you have enough time to actually job hunt.

In my experience, job hunting was full time. There was often 2, sometimes 3 separate interviews, preparation or interview questions (e.g. writing a program to solve the travelling salesman problem) that needed to be done in advance, and thats on top of the job seraching and cover letters and fielding never ending phone calls from over-friendly recruitment agents etc..

Even assuming you get stuff done outside of the 55 hours a week working, are they really going to let you have lots of days off for interviews?

It sounds like the company is using people for cheap labour. I suspect there's a high turnover.

trail_rat - Member

pro rata - for 55hours i would have been earning more than 17.5k as a bike mechanic - id have been happier to continue doing that than work for enterprise.

They could do with you back...

@ fionap. What line of work are you in if you don't mind me asking, just sounds like you have some relevant comments about internship which he is more than happy to do. My email is in profile if you wouldn't mind dropping me a line. Me and Mrs Lad have been in the same jobs for 20 years so we have a lack of awareness about this subject

If you have qualifications they want experience, if you have experience they want qualifications, and if you have both then you're overqualified. Can't bloody win.

This is because of recruitment agencies. I have the same issue, I have a lot of experience, and I'm very good at what I do. I can do the same job as a graduate easily, but would probably expect less pay. So a good investment for any company, and I've found companies doing their own recruitment have always given me a chance.

But the recruitment agents say no. No degree, no consideration for the position.

mudshark - Member

Gaps on CVs have to be explained too.

They do but for a fresh graduate, "I was looking for the right job, which this particular job is" should always be nonprejudicial and can be beneficial- you're showing a particular interest rather than just taking what's available. Employers that treats a short gap in a CV after uni as a problem, are almost certainly going to be dicks in the longer run too.

There's a school of thought- I don't have an informed opinion on this- that as a graduate your first job in a career path is the most important one. Various reasons- you get typecast, potential employers look at what you're doing now and may assume that's what you're fit for. So you might take a starter role but then the next person says "Hmm, I see your experience is as a lab assistant even though you're a qualified teacher, you're an underachiever" or something and the next thing you know you get offered more lab assistant roles. Perceived success breeds success. I know it happens, it happened to me- but whether it's widespread I don't know.

But personally, if I was a fresh grad right now I'd be looking for a job I really wanted, unless I had no real choice.

I'd take bets on it being Enterprise, American company expecting huge amounts of time for bugger all pay.

Hmm, I see your experience is as a [s]lab assistant[/s] qualifieed teacher even though you're a [s]qualified teacher[/s] qualified lab assistant, you're an underachiever

Sod off, you've got it all wrong.

Can't be arsed reading all that... No, he should expect to go in on £100k p/a with zero experience and 'just' his degree as new grads have so much to offer.... AFAIK, accepting an offer is not mandatory so he should keep looking if this one is too demeaning.

Sorry if this sounds a bit harsh but he can always hold out for whatever you/he considers more appropriate or maybe get zero from an internship instead...

I turned down three 'graduate' jobs out of Uni (all on more than the OP's son's been offered!), didn't start until February, after graduating in the summer, never been an issue and set me up right. Can't see a post-Uni CV gap would ever be a problem.

[url= https://dupontimpl.taleo.net/careersection/gbl2emea/jobdetail.ftl?lang=en&job=343843&src=JB-10421 ]The applicants for this job will be paid considerably less than the guys currently doing it(retiring)by approx £7-10k !!!! The job has not been represented accurately in this advert imo(and colleagues)[/url]
The trades apprentices are also being offered contracts which are way below the old trades remuneration. There would seem to be and this is being proven by Gov tax revenue figures to lower the UK wage bill.
To obtain the old rates of pay kids are being made to jump through hoops or maybe good old fashioned "work harder" rather than listening to their parents who tell them they "shouldn't be working those hours for that kind of money". I'm afraid those days have gone 💡

I know the hours my kids have and are working, much the same as I did when I was their age, both in good professional(Teaching/engineering)jobs.

...as a graduate your first job in a career path is the most important one. Various reasons- you get typecast, potential employers look at what you're doing now and may assume that's what you're fit for

Well I agree but I have assumed that the OP's son hasn't just applied for anything at random and that the job might be relevant to his career - just that the hours/pay ain't great.

Tell him not to bother with Enterprise, it's not a real grad scheme, more of a "trainee" scheme. I was offered a place many years ago but within 15 minutes of the start of the assessment centre I knew I didn't want to work there. Also know a couple of people who did work there and both left within 1-2 years.

Normally I'd be telling someone to take the job, and look for something else whilst doing it. Any job is better than no job... Right?

Well in the case of Enterprise, no... They are a comedy bunch of shysters that, to be honest, I'm surprised are still in business! Forget the hours and the pay situation for one moment... Take a moment to consider that in each of your current job roles, are you an asset or a resource? Anyone who has answered resource hates their job, simple as that. For any job to be worthwhile, no matter the pay or the hours, you need to be working for employers that consider you an asset.

Enterprise is not this company! Have known several friends end up on their "Grad scheme" and fortunately for them, just chalk it up to experience and move on. When I finished uni I joined a temping agency whilst I was looking for a full time role, and one evening I got the call "could you go and work for Enterprise tomorrow instead of the role you've been doing all week please, as they need some cover?". Having been told to turn up in my smartest suit (no, smart trousers and a jumper will not do, you HAVE to be in a full suit!) I turned up the next morning to be told that (surprise surprise) their graduate walked out yesterday hence they needed the cover. My job for the day would be (exactly as his had been) washing cars pretty much relentlessly from 8 til close, and lunch was to be eaten on the go. I was lucky though, one of the drivers called in sick that day so I actually had to make a couple of drop offs and pickups too!

Anyway... Suit almost ruined after one day cleaning cars, I politely told the agency to F off if they ever thought of asking me to work for those jokers again. I don't mind cleaning cars at all, would happily do it all day if paid, but to be told I had to wear my best suit to do so and the realisation that this was seen as a graduate role (even if I was only doing it for a day) was just too much of a pill to swallow.

Went back to driving delivery vans for the rest of that summer the following week, for better pay, less hours, and I got to wear what I liked! And I was fresh enough when I got home to spend a decent amount of time continuing my search for full time roles too...

The moral is that just about ANYTHING is better than working for Enterprise. Tell your lad to get a PT job stacking shelves in the local supermarket or similar until he finds his chosen career. He'd feel far more valued and part of a team!

Recent grad here: I work doing essentially what I call 'typing' in a cushty office for 35 hours a week for that.

There are better jobs, but they will all expect you to work for a pittance unless you get on a grad scheme with a big company.

I've gone through a temp agency, with the plan of being kept on, ask him to try that.

He doesn't have to take it.
maybe he has a few offers to weigh up right now?
I dont know
does he have to get a job to pay his rent food heating etc
or is he living with his parents and have the luxury to pick and choose what career to choose?

My stepson has a masters in business & economics (or something) & he's was recently on about the same as the OP's lad working for some company that dealt in company shares.
I say 'was' because he went to Crewe on Monday to start his train driver training with Freightliner.
45Kish when he's 'trained'
He always had asperations of working for Aston Martin or someone & making £££'s but as has been said, there's a lot of people with degrees out there.