[Closed] Should I send my 4yo out in -12 temp's

There are always risks and not just because of the cold.

Personal judgment, it'd be a brave person on here to reassure you and (against all the odds) something bad happened.

If you have to ask, ask the ski centre and see what they recommend?

-12C and the sun shining are different conditions to -12C and heavy snow falls.

Go on the Ski thread, plenty of experienced folks on there.

If it was my kid (I don’t have any, so what do I know) if it was -12C and sunny I reckon as long as the lesson is an hour or so, the kid should be fine.

Hmmm

Skiing is meant to be fun right... If your nipper goes out and hates it, will he/she want to go tomorrow ???

I'd say no.

And you might not last long yourself ?

Good luck

well seeing as kids at Nursery sleep outside in these temps here in Norway I dont see your problem unless there's a blizzard and wind chill issues

darrell - Member
well seeing as kids at Nursery sleep outside in these temps here in Norway I dont see your problem unless there's a blizzard and wind chill issues

😯

I'd assume the ski instructors know what they are doing and trust their judgement. My daughter was out in lower temperatures and she grew up fine (assuming all teenagers behave like that)

Wrap her up warm send her out, if she gets cold bring her home.

-12c is not that cold tbh, especially if you're moving around and you have decent clothes on.

Kids don't feel the cold like adults, especially one that small, less surface area to lose body heat. Wrap up as you would asnd send them

Depends on the wind. Wind chill will have a huge effect. As above, if it's calm and sunny then it'll be fine. If it's windy and overcast it'll be pretty bleak. I'd happily go out in it but a young kid may not enjoy it so much.

Edit, just looked at the forecast. Overcast in the morning and -20 to -30 with wind chill. Might be tempted to find something else for him to do unless he really doesn't mind the cold.

darrell - Member
well seeing as kids at Nursery sleep outside in these temps here in Norway I dont see your problem unless there's a blizzard and wind chill issues

😯

If it's -12 and calm I would say that's OK, but see how cold you feel when you take them to class.

The ski instructors are trained as long as the kids are wearing proper clothing they will be fine until the instructors decide differently.

Assuming little or no wind and little or no snow fall then probably, if sunny then definitely. Get her wrapped up and keep a close eye on her, if she's cold then bring her in.

It’s -15 in VT today, my brother in law has sent all his kids (9,7,5) out for their lessons today.

The instructors are trained to look after them properly.

Edit: I, on the other hand, am waiting for it to stop snowing and the sun to come out. It looks foul out there...

djglover - Member
, especially one that small, less surface area to lose body heat

From my limited experience of first aid courses at work dealing with shock and exposure is this not incorrect and small children and babies loose heat much more quickly than adults?

In fact answering my own question;

Infants and small children are at particular risk for cold stress and hypothermia due to their small body mass and relatively large surface area, reduced ability to shiver, and limited body fat.

djglover

Kids don't feel the cold like adults, especially one that small, less surface area to lose body heat

Wtf?

Greater surface area to volume, so smaller things lose heat faster, what cools faster, a big bowl of porrage or a small bowl?

giantalkali - Member - Block User
Wtf?

Greater surface area to volume, so smaller things lose heat faster, what cools faster, a big bowl of porrage or a small bowl?

You're the expert, Goldilocks. You tell us!

As many have said, the instructors know what they are doing and take your lead from them. They will probably bail out for a hot choc mid lesson. Thats what ours did on a cold one in Paisey a few years ago.
Have fun, conditions sound great out there.

giantalkali - Member

Wtf?

Greater surface area to volume, so smaller things lose heat faster, what cools faster, a big bowl of porrage or a small bowl?

Pretty sure it's the opposite, that being one of the reasons small mammals out lasted the dinosaurs after the nuclear winter.

Isn't it along the lines of you double the mass which cubes the surface area?

Kids don't feel the cold like adults, especially one that small, less surface area to lose body heat. Wrap up as you would asnd send them

You’re right they don’t which is why they are more at risk as they lose heat faster too.

I’d still send my kids out alll wrapped up they’ve been on in -8 when they were very young but that was in the UK, I not sure how I did it without asking on here but I did.

I not sure how I did it without asking on here but I did.

It’s how I roll.

If the ski lesson is not cancelled it will be fine. These ski school's are plenty experienced and will know what to do whatever the conditions are. As long as the little one has a half decent jacket and sallopets and exposed skin covered as frost nip will be the biggest risk, rather than freezing to death. With with half decent kit on and the fact they'll be active and not stationary then their body will be generating more than enough heat to keep them warm enough, so all the surface area and heat loss discussions are not really applicable in this case - we're warm blooded animals so can regulate our body temperature - a combination of our body cranking up its metabolism to keep itself warm and the fact they'll be active anyway, they'll be fine. I'm sure the instructors will be taking the colder weather into account in choosing where they take them, how high up and making sure they keep the kids active.

I've ski'd many a time in those conditions and colder with kit that is far from North Face Summit Series standard and survived to tell the tale. Though a mate of mine did get frost nip on the tip of his nose one year when skiing in Cervinea where in the wind it was down at about -25 or so.

Oh, surface area / volume ratio is governed by shape, so really it depends how fat your kids are? Did they go walking on Boxing Day?

Have you bought them decent clothing for a start.

Assuming that you have I'd only be concerned about cold air in the lungs so you could get them a neoprene face mask so they look like hannibal.

hem a neoprene face mask so they look like hannibal

He crossed the alps without all this fuss

One thing's for sure.

They won't melt.

Have you bought them decent clothing for a start.

Yes, he went to Oxford street.

He crossed the alps without all this fuss

Yeah but he was trying to escape the nazis.

Should I send my 4yo out in -12 temp's

To collect wood?

I'd say yes. It'd sort of be cruel not to, when you think about it? Wood warms them 4X :

1. When they collect it
2. When they chop it
3. When they stack it
4. When they burn it

Yeah but he was trying to escape the nazis.

On an elephant?

Wrap her up warm send her out, if she gets cold bring her home.

This, plus although kids have higher surface area to volume, then they also have higher metabolic rates (ever notice how they still get hot in summer, and mice manage to go about naked year round?).

So whilst they'll lose heat faster if they do go out underdressed, they'll be fine if you wrap them up properly.

I still remember as a child my mum being so worried about us getting cold whenever it snowed - but it was generally quite calm, we were running about, and we were in the (admittedly fairly large) back garden. I don't ever remember being uncomfortably cold.

On an elephant?

Yup.

did they survive ?

The elephants made it just fine.

#prayformini_thered

Here in Sweden the limit is -15c.

-12c is but a cool day

Poopscoop - I think you have the surface area to volume ratio the wrong way round.

Roughly, if you are twice as tall as a child, you have four times the surface area, but eight times the mass. (Yes, I know people aren't spherical).

When length is twice as big, it is in one dimension...
but area is twice as big in two dimensions. 2 x 2 = 4.
and volume is twice as big in three dimensions. 2 x 2 x 2 = 8.

Thinking about the units might help visualise it:
Length in metres.
Area in square meters.
Volume in cubic metres.

I think small mammals survived the dinosaur extinction because they were mammals. Small dinosaurs didn't survive it.

My experience with children is they have a faster metabolism when they are running around playing, but can then get chilled through really quick.

There's a ton of advise out there. Children get cold quicker than adults.

For parents and carers of children
Young children and babies are at high risk from extreme cold and can develop hypothermia very quickly as their body size is so small. It is important to cover their head if they are out in cold weather.
Children can become colder much quicker than adults because they have less muscle mass.
Limit exposure to prolonged or extreme cold weather.

That's normal temps in large parts of the world. Just dress appropriately. I would suggest that for a little kid a snow suit would be appropriate. Should be available in shops in cold places as they are normal clothes.

Ah,Oliver Reed,one of our finest thesps [url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannibal_Brooks ]Hannibal Brooks[/url]

Canada ski school limit is -15 ambient or -20 windchill.