Simple question here but I guess it wont be as this is singletrack after all! So is the ideal to have your saddle inline with the height of the bars for general riding? Of which I mean- like just riding on fire roads or through a bit of singletrack etc.
I know you would have it maybe lower for pure DH. Or maybe a bit higer for pure XC fast pace riding. It seems I can never get the ideal feel on my 26 wheeled bikes with the saddle height to the bar height. Being 6.3 tall seems to make it hard to get a 26inch wheeled bike to fit like that for some reason.
Well the more modern frame designs, all seem to have relly short steerer tubes and are about 20inch max in size The old school frames in 21 inch with longer steerer tubes seemed to fit a lot better! Also they did not need a seatube sticking up a mile in the air. I just remember the old Konas, Saracens and M Trax bikes I used to have in the day!
The 29er bikes I have had seem to offer a more comfy riding position. The bars all look to be inline with the saddle a lot more. Well I just had a look at my 29er and it does and the others before that. But I need a 26inch wheeled bike for some of the riding I like to do. I have gone for 1ud rise stem and highest ride bars Easton make to try and jack it up a bit. In the past I have had to stick loads of spacers under the headset and leave the forks uncut in some cases. we are talking 250mm steerer tubes here! it looks nuts though. I'm not sure how good that is for the frame too. Same as having too much seatpost sticking up.
Er, wrong forum but.. I wouldn't look at it in those terms.
Your saddle is the right height if your legs are nearly fully extended but your pelvis doesn't rock from side to side as you pedal.
Then, if your bars are too low you'll feel front heavy on technical drops and have a sore neck. If they're too high but close you'll find it a bit harder to get power down (but easier to control on descents) and if they are too high but far away you'll feel like you are hugging a space hopper.
Post a pic of yourself riding the bike.
FWIW the saddles on my bikes are usually higher than my bars.
But I need a 26inch wheeled bike for some of the riding I like to do
Why on earth..?
6ft here. My bars and saddle end up this way no matter what bike I'm riding.
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personal preference. There is no right or wrong answer. My bikes have bars higher than the saddle for comfort.
To answer your question simply - no.
I'm 6'4", my saddle is normally a fair chunk HIGHER than my bars. On my DH bike it's nearly level.
None of my bikes have me in a particularly "flat back" position. If the bike's too *short*, it can make you hunch a bit though, which is uncomfy.
IIRC the most efficient saddle to bottom of stroke distance is 107% of your leg length.
Whatever, best fit advice I've read is that your leg should be fully extended sat on the saddle with your heel on the pedal at the absolute bottom of the stroke.
Saddle should be in position so that with pedals horizontal, a vertical line from the front of your knee goes through the middle of the pedal axle.
With the above set up, it's personal preference but I like my arms to be at about 45 deg when in normal riding position. Probably less for XC type stuff and more for DH
IIRC the most efficient saddle to bottom of stroke distance is 107% of your leg length.
To pedal that, you'd need 10% longer legs?
your feet presumably are about 7% of your legs
Maybe if you're a hobbit.
To pedal that, you'd need 10% longer legs?
only if you pedal with your heel on the pedal 🙄
Saddle should be in position so that with pedals horizontal, a vertical line from the front of your knee goes through the middle of the pedal axle
Hasn't that been tested and found to be nonsense?
only if you pedal with your heel on the pedal
Ah, I see what you mean. I suppose it'd make sense then that your [i]maximum [/i]pedal-to-saddle distance would be 107% taking into account the extra length you'd gain from moving your feet further back on the pedals. I'm not sure how that can be the [i]most efficient[/i] though; most efficient is 100%, presumably, because that's how you set your saddle height. No?
KOPS is debateable but it is approximately right.
http://sheldonbrown.com/kops.html
I'm 6'5", all my bikes have bars lower than the saddle - an inch or two on my mtbs, more on the road/CX ones. Other similar height people have bars much lower, some much higher. It really depends on you.
I've lowered my saddles by about an inch since an old boy commented that my pelvis was rolling as I passed him on the road bike (only now do I feel dirty about him looking at my bum).
He was dead right though - dropped my saddle a bit on the roadie and it's much more comfortable to spin away on the drops now. And consequently my MTBs felt high so I lowered them and have a lower COG and better downhillabilityness.
Your height is not much of a gauge though - You can be the same height but have long or short arms and/or legs - this affects your riding position a lot.
I thought alot of it was frame geometry and design too. Back in the day most bikes were Arse up hands down, most frames today are the other way round..
My knees complain if my saddles too low, so I generaly have my hip's rocking slightly.
Bars http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/should-a-saddle-be-inline-with-the-height-of-the-bars-tall-person-thingarround the same place on all my bikes, no spacers, short minimal rise stem, flat wide bars on the 456 (130mm forks), low risers and lighly taller stem on the Sanderson (100mm forks). The exception being the 456 in uplift/DH mode, bigger forks, same bar/stem to take smoe pressure off my hands.
I thought alot of it was frame geometry and design too
Quite possibly. I think seat angle has a big effect on what works.
Your height is not much of a gauge though - You can be the same height but have long or short arms and/or legs - this affects your riding position a lot.
Exactly. That's why IMO if you get the saddle height and forward/back position correct for best pedalling you can work out what fits from there, depending on personal preference.
And the point about the 107%. When you're cycling you have the balls of your feet on the pedal, so you gain the extra length and power from flexing the ankle.
There seem to be lots of ideas and theories around ride positioning. If you're a racer or competitive athlete looking for optimum performance/efficiency there might be something in them. As a general pootler about I tend to go with comfort and what feels right. My bars are currently a couple of inches lower than my saddle (I'm 6') and that feels fine. Saddle heightwise, I like a slight bend in the knee (I've heard 20 degrees mentioned) at the bottom of the stroke with my foot level (this tends to equate to another 'rule of thumb' which gives me a straight leg with my heel on the pedal at full extension). This feels comfy and gives a little bit of natural lift out of the saddle when I'm cranking hard with a flexed ankle. If my saddle's too high, irrespective of anything else, I get pains in my sit-bones. Saddle fore and aft and angle positioning can make a lot of difference to comfort too.
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I'm reet tall like, and my bars are markedly lower than my saddle when it's at ideal pedalling position. If they were the same height I'd be doing the shopping. IMO long arms work great with short, low bikes as you get reach in a different way which gives much better ability to work as suspension and more weight on the front wheel. Stretching forward instead of down would ruin the sort of handling that I happen to like.
On the road I have a longer reach but still low bars because I'm not going shopping then either. The bars on the toured were higher, though, nearly level with the saddle.
with my saddle at pedaling height, it's... (just checking) ... (please hum to your yourself or something)...
about 4" above my handlebars.
but i am a lanky streak of pi**.
