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you never know when its your last ride.......
[i]Speculating whether this was a professional hit, a robbery gone wrong, or whatever, is hardly "tasteless". [/i]
If that's just what the speculation was/is, then no, you're right, it's not particularly tasteless I suppose; it's understandable (if slightly morbid) curiosity. Some of the comments on exactly how it happened step over the mark however. I especially liked the little joke about how it could have been the four year old girl.
[i]Ah, the inevitable and obligatory dig at the BBC.
Of course ITN, Sky News, and all other news providers, haven't speculated the possible cause of this horrendous incident, it's just the BBC is it ?[/i]
No, of course not, they all do it. I just happened to have read the Beeb site. It still boils my piss though that speculation counts as news. Report the facts, not what Trevor from Basingstoke, who's mate Fred went on holiday to somewhere near the area once in the mid Eighties, heard from a fella down the pub.
was being flippant, regarding all the amateur sleuthing that some were engaging in-- please let me know how long is respectful before dark humour is allowed
[i]was being flippant, regarding all the amateur sleuthing that some were engaging in-- please let me know how long is respectful before dark humour is allowed [/i]
Well, that's obviously difficult to say, but I guess that as it's only just 24 hours since the girl was found hiding under her mother's dead body, where she'd been for eight hours, after witnessing, one assumes, the brutal murder of her parents and grandmother and attempted murder of her sister, maybe the flippancy was a bit premature.
was not directed at HER-- as has been eloquently put earlier, don't think the discourse on here will affect any of the poor souls involved-- the amateur sleuths are another matter......
List of assassinated Iraqi academics. Makes for quite a read.
The head of my undergraduate lab project was an Iraqi specialist in radiation.... 😯
and also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_against_academics_in_post-invasion_Iraq
The violence, and also the conflict in general, is believed to be initiated by the US, Iran and Israel, in order to eliminate Iraq as a strategic player in the region. Academics state that the US and Iran are still actively involved in promoting the violence (whereas Israel appears to be not) and state that they play the most dominant role in the violence up until now. Academics pinpoint that the perpetrators, or the actors that conduct the actual violence, are mainly the militias, being supported by the Iraqi government.
That is the crude way of disrupting a fledgling state, must be the most dangerous job in the world......
My adventure race partner was gassed in his van in Burgos, Spain. The thieves took the wallets but not much else. Fortunately they woke up with nothing worse than a hang over and lost very little cash as it was the end of their holiday.
Copied from another site re the gassing in motorhome stories:-
Dear Mr Kirby,
Thank you for your enquiry. I would like to inform you that you are not the first enquirer with this question. Professor Hatch, our Clinical Advisor, has given the following previous comments:
"I can give you a categorical assurance that it would not be possible to render someone unconscious with ether without their knowledge, even if they were sleeping at the time. Ether is an extremely pungent agent and a relatively weak anaesthetic by modern standards and has a very irritant affect of the air passages, causing coughing and sometimes vomiting. It takes some time to reach unconsciousness, even if given by direct application to the face on a rag, and the concentration needed by some sort of spray into a room would be enormous. The smell hangs around for days and would be obvious to anyone the next day.
There are much more powerful agents around now, some of which are almost odourless. However, these would be unlikely to be able to achieve the effect you describe, and the cost would be huge enough to deter any thief unless he was after the crown jewels. The only practicable agent is probably the one used by the Russians in the Moscow siege - I advised the BBC on their programme about this. The general feeling is that they used an agent which is not available outside the KGB!
Finally, unsupervised anaesthesia, which is what we are really talking about is very dangerous. In the Moscow siege about 20% of victims died from asphyxia, because their airways were unprotected. If the reports you talk about are true I would have expected a significant number of deaths or cases of serious brain damage to have been reported."
I hope this information is helpful to you.
Regards,
Ms Shirani Nadarajah
General Administrator
Professional Standards Directorate
The Royal College of Anaesthetists"
a road death is (hopefully) a horrible accident whereas these killings were deliberate, brutal and senseless.
Without going way off topic I think that is the erroneous way in which we treat deaths on the roads - as if they're unavoidable collateral damage. I'd posit that MOST road deaths are the result of actions that should be considered criminal - either some form of negligence (distracted in some way or improper observation) or reckless endangerment (driving too fast for the road or conditions). Pretty much the only ones that are truly 'unavoidable' would be those resulting from mechanical failure.
Totally concur with your post on 'accidents'-- they are not-- incidents yes, very rarely are they accidents, it is a paradox of policy regarding road 'safety'-- that somehow death is a necessary side effect of normalised road use !!"!
Can we get back on topic, none of this gassing stuff or accidents/incidents?
Interesting how there is mismatched infomation about eyewitness reports.
White Peugeot
Green 4x4
White 4x4
Motorbike
I feel so sad for that 4yr old, having a 2 yr old it puts horrible thoughts in your mind.
Hope both kids can go on to live as normal lives as possible.
Like doping, the scrotes are usually one step ahead of the medical profession in the misuse of substances. I'd be surprised if a gendarme or Dr. were as adamant as the Ms from the Royal College. People have died in camper vans but it's usually been blamed on carbon monoxide. I think the Ms is a bit quick to be dismissive.
Edukator- are you being serious ?
[i]Like doping, the scrotes are usually one step ahead of the medical profession in the misuse of substances. I'd be surprised if a gendarme or Dr. were as adamant as the Ms from the Royal College. People have died in camper vans but it's usually been blamed on carbon monoxide. I think the Ms is a bit quick to be dismissive.[/i]
Durrr....
The guys from the Royal College of Anaeasthetists do actually know what they're on about.
Unlike you, it would seem.
I worked in a theatre department for 10 years, using all the available inhalational agents; Halothane, Enflurane, Isoflurane, Sevoflurane and nitrous oxide. If you think someone could use these things to incapacitate someone in a van you would be mistaken.
WTF guys. Seriously. Lets end this topic out of decorum.
Blackmail?....get the feeling France was a prearranged drop for something
rudebwoy - Member
you never know when its your last ride.......POSTED 8 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST
May be that's the best thing to take from this, something we could all do to remember.
Nahh, I'm immortal.
No-one has mentionned any of those, Crikey. MrFart did quote "Scoplamine".
[i]Scoplamine[/i]
Hmmm.
[i]Scopolamine can be administered orally, subcutaneously, opthalmically and intravenously, as well as via a transdermal patch[/i]
I see no mention of 'via the vents on a van', which I believe supports my approach somewhat.
No-one has mentionned any of those, Crikey. MrFart did quote "Scoplamine".
😆
Think latera
[i]Think latera[/i]
I'm presuming you are suggesting I think laterally. Even thinking as laterally as i am able, I am unable to conjuror up a situation in which the application of incapacitating drugs would present a situation in which the occupants of a motor home would be rendered unconcious...
Perhaps an overdose of cheese?
Maybe eating sausages injected with morphine?
Give over.
word on the trails this afternoon is it was jason bourne...
I haven't said unconcious either, Crikey.
In the case of my adventure race pal and his girlfriend you need to think of something that would leave them with thick heads and irritated eyes and make it possible to go through everything in the van without them remembering anything in the morning.
[quote=Edukator ]I haven't said unconcious either, Crikey.
In the case of my adventure race pal and his girlfriend you need to think of something that would leave them with thick heads and irritated eyes and make it possible to go through everything in the van without them remembering anything in the morning.
Alcohol? Occams razor and all that
In the case of my adventure race pal and his girlfriend you need to think of something that would leave them with thick heads and irritated eyes and make it possible to go through everything in the van without them remembering anything in the morning.
Hayfever and unlocked doors.
I've slept through a 6.0 earthquake.
word on the trails this afternoon is it was jason bourne...
Drugs, professional assassinations, dangerous European gangs......sounds more like Liam Neeson.
To be honest the best thing would be to block up all the vents on the van. Possibly adding the effect of a fire extinguisher... CO2 narcosis would be cheap, predictable and relatively safe...
Anyway, we seem to have wandered far off topic and continued to do damage to the French tourist industry which would seem, at present, to be unwarranted.
My guess would be family or politics....
In the case of my adventure race pal and his girlfriend you need to think of something that would leave them with thick heads and irritated eyes and make it possible to go through everything in the van without them remembering anything in the morning.
Dope. African rumbleweed, more than likely.
Photos of the car on TV tonight showed that it was backed up against the verge with its rear wheels dug in. The cyclist who was first on the scene switched off the engine. Perhaps the car was in gear in reverse when the driver was shot. Maybe the driver's foot was on the pedal after he was shot?
This makes me think maybe the car was an automatic as a manual would be far more likely to stall after hitting the bank. An auto could stop but the engine remain running...
Anyway, why was the driver reversing? Guy stood in front of him with a gun? That would make me reverse. Although running him down might be a better option...
Why was the older daughter "beaten" as well as shot? Maybe she was struck by the getaway vehicle as she tried to escape?
The cyclist who arrived MUST have seen any vehicle travelling down the road away from the scene.
We spend a lot of time in the Alps in our motorhome in the summer, so the gassing/shooting thing is making me think. The gas think divides opinion. some people think it is rubbish, others think it happens all the time. Evidence is inconclusive either way.
Not alcohol and not heavy sleepers which is probably the main problem in the majority of camper van theft cases.
As with the subject of the thread, an open mind might be wise.
I remember a documentary in the early 90s on the BBC about orienteers dying because they trained when they had colds. Their hearts just stopped, just like young cyclists that were training with colds at the time. A few years later it was obvious their hearts were stopping because they were using... .
How many body builders died natural deaths before one ended up in a coma which someone realised wasn't natural and due to insulin abuse?
How many women were raped before someone realised GBH was being used and advised woemn to keep an eye on their drinks?
It'll all come out in the wash but until then keep an open mind.
An open mind is fair enough Edukator but open it too far and your brain might fall out. Anaesthetists are not sceptical of these stories out of some perverse, conspiratorial obstinacy.
If I found a way of of stunning the endless supply of uncooperative kids that need dental extractions, simply by wandering around the hospital car park wafting gas into air vents, I think I would probably get a knighthood for services to anaesthesia.
carbon337 - MemberInteresting how there is mismatched infomation about eyewitness reports.
Always is, these days (maybe twas ever thus?) For whatever reason, people make stuff up. Some of them seem to believe it.
Troutwrestler - which film is your synopsis from? I would not have a clue how I would react if some one pointed a gun at me or a family member, I just know that films are not real.
I bet the UK cyclist is counting his chickens though and so glad he did react to being over taken on the climb.
As far as gassing the people in a van there was one night after a lot of ale it was touch and go after farting weather I would get the door open before I passed out.
Mrs Higgo is Dutch but was unaware of the 'dutch oven' until our first beer and curry night together.
Mrs Higgo is Dutch but was unaware of the 'dutch oven' until our first beer and curry night together.
bet she's an addict now !
Deleted
You could so easily get mixed up in a crime scene. Many years ago Mrs Gti and I were walking in that valley down beside the M62 where it climbs up to the PW bridge at Blackstone Edge. Some hefty guys drove up the track in a van and parked a little beyond us, which was a odd but we ignored it. Next four equally useful looking blokes turned up in a car, parked just behind us, jumped out and raced up the track behind us. We assumed they were heading up for a chat with the van blokes but the moment when they caught up and overtook us was a little worrying.
Last Friday I pressed the call button on a lift for a public car park under a main square in Budapest. When the doors opened there was a dealer squatting on the floor sorting out some white powder in a silver foil package. My colleague and I got in and ignored him and he ignored us. Could have been different though.
Yesyerday I was about to cross the road. Waited and let the truck past first. It could have different though.
yes-- some people sail close to the wind, now i know how crappy films/books get their plot lines..........
My mate (bella off here) who I go to France with; has a camper van, is an aneathesist and farts a lot. Should I be worried?
very !
I thought as much. I'll need to sleep with one eye open from now on.
LOLZ @ globalti
Off topic but the first thing I noticed when looking at the car is the passenger side bike rack appears to be missing the whole rear section:
[img] 
[/img]
or maybe the pic is a photochop?
I had expected bullet holes in the windscreen too.
Definitely looks like the car has been reversed hard into the bank.
We spend a lot of time in the Alps in our motorhome in the summer, so the gassing/shooting thing is making me think. The gas think divides opinion. some people think it is rubbish, others think it happens all the time. Evidence is inconclusive either way.
Happened to a friend of mine. He had just retired and decided to tour France for a bit as a first time abroad caravener. It is also quite common at dockyard truck stops, again have friends who are euro transport drivers
AFAIK, they took one bike for the eldest girl to ride. What possible reason would there be to 'shop the carrier out? You can clearly see the original photo structure, if it had been 'shopped there would be noticeable blurring of the pixels.
The assailants wouldn't fire at the screen, too steeply raked, to much risk of ricochets. Much easier to shoot through the flat, un-reinforced side windows. Plus they would have to reach across the bonnet and shoot down to clear the dash; the first reaction would be for the occupants to duck down.
That's my take, thinking logically.
[url=
u're not even safe in a holiday home[/url]
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19540445 ]Alps shootings: Bomb squad arrive at Saad al-Hilli home[/url] 😯
Surrey Police have evacuated neighbours and closed the road around the home of Saad al-Hilli, amid concerns over items found at the house in Claygate.
Its like real life Bourne or Spooks. Looking more likely like a hit of some sorts if this bomb is acccurate
It just gets wierder...