[Closed] Shock horror, red meat will kill you.....

Donkey burger you say!

Yes, but bacon tastes gooood, pork chops taste gooood, donkey burgers taste goood.

Dave:

But the actual research they bleat on about referred to processed red meat.

Ahem...

Lead author Dr An Pan from the Department of Nutrition at Harvard, wrote in the journal: “We found that greater consumption of [b]unprocessed and processed[/b] red meats is associated with higher mortality risk.

The study said: "We found that a higher intake of red meat was associated with a significantly elevated risk of total, cardiovascular disease, and cancer mortality.

"This association was observed for [b]unprocessed and processed[/b] red meat with a relatively greater risk for processed red meat."

...anyway, c'mon Dave, get down off the fence and pick a side 8)

[img] [/img]

Have they suggested causality or just association?

Association. It was an epidimelogical study, so I think by definition can't demonstrate causality.
The processed meat being worse may be due to the extra salt in curing rather than the meat itself.
According to the nice lady on the radio this morning.
Went and had a look in the fridge at how much my sausages and bacon weigh compared to the recommended 500g. 600g - that's within engineering tolerance 🙂

According to the BBC this morning you are 20% more likely to die. I make that 120%

[i]Are they hoping we don't understand the difference between a grass fed steak and a donkey burger? [/i]

Don't think many of those people standing in the Q at McDs' are bovered.

I have trouble sourcing Grass fed stuff anyway.

According to the BBC this morning you are 20% more likely to die. I make that 120%

"The British Heart Foundation said red meat could still be eaten as part of a balanced diet."

Oh thankyou. Thankyou so much. Bless you all at the BHF. I shall make a daily sacrifice of a perfect lamb in your honour. I and my family will set aside one day a week to remember the mercy you have shown to us.

I hope we are all eternally grateful that the Holy Church of British Heart Foundation has deemed us worthy to be permitted to partake of the red meat.

On second thoughts, stop nagging us and bossing us around about what we can and can't eat.

You people must be so much fun at a dinner party.

Have they suggested causality or just association?

Someone, possibly, more intelligent than me wrote:

The study claims to prove that increased consumption of red meat increases risk of heart disease and cancer, but in fact only shows correlation without demonstrating causation. As any student of statistics will tell you, this is a serious error. It may be the case that people who eat more red meat get heart disease more often, but there's nothing to show that one is a result of the other. They could equally have reported that sleeping with your shoes on often corresponds with waking up with a headache, and that sleeping with your shoes on causes headache...

-[url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2012/mar/12/red-meat-death-heart-cancer#start-of-comments ]Sauce[/url]

Don't think many of those people standing in the Q at McDs' are bovered.

I got the impression that by processed they also meant finest smoked Ham and Bacon, rather then just cheaply processed.
Though not having read the report, that's pure conjecture by me:)

They could equally have reported that sleeping with your shoes on often corresponds with waking up with a headache, and that sleeping with your shoes on causes headache...

Though we did go through all these arguments with smoking for several decades too. And in fairness the statistics are normally a bit more complicated and do check for pub based lifestyle factors 🙂

At the end of the day [b]EVERYTHING[/b] kills you. Its as simple as that. The stuff that's enjoyable kills you faster

Yossarian was right. As you read this, every cell in your body is presently conspiring against you. Lighten up and have a kebab

[i]As any student of statistics will tell you, this is a serious error. It may be the case that people who eat more red meat get heart disease more often, but there's nothing to show that one is a result of the other. They could equally have reported that sleeping with your shoes on often corresponds with waking up with a headache, and that sleeping with your shoes on causes headache...[/i]

Wasn't this the [i]over sight[/i] that Ancel Keys made ?.

[i]I got the impression that by processed they also meant finest smoked Ham and Bacon, rather then just cheaply processed.
Though not having read the report, that's pure conjecture by me:) [/i]

I'd of thought theres more folk chowing down on a McDs than the finest parma ham and other bacon thingys.
However, you're right, bacon is processed, but I'd take a few rashers of bacon over a hash-brown.
Thats just my slant on all this.

Yeah but I'm putting 130% of my effort into avoiding it.

Everyone knows the maximum effort possible is 110% 🙂

Re. bacon and the like - does 'processed' include stuff like preserving, smoking etc?

I don't count bacon as 'processed' as it's just slices off a lump of pig. isn't it? it's not been altered in any way, other than maybe salted/smoked ...

And anyway, I don't smoke, I drink very little alcohol, I don't eat junk food, I don't do drugs, I exercise regularly, I eat healthily, I am not overweight and my blood pressure & cholesterol are well within recommended levels.

So by my reckoning, on average, I've offset the red meat effect, so I can eat it as many days of the week that I want.

At least, that's what my research 'suggests' 🙄

but in fact only shows correlation without demonstrating causation

it's not been altered in any way, other than maybe [b]salted/smoked[/b]

<edit> no idea exactly what does and does not count as processed but I'd take a wild stab in the dark that those two would

maybe

There are so many associations between red meat eating and other aspects of unhealthy lifestyle, it makes it quite tough to accurately adjust your results completely for those.

The modest increase in risk of 'early death' from heart disease and cancer - both of their study groups followed people into their 70s, so we're not necessarily talking about really early death, is linked with eating at least one extra portion of red meat a day.

I don't think you can use it to draw any reliable conclusions about having bacon or lamb chops a couple of times a week as part of an otherwise healthy diet.

And anyway, I don't smoke, I drink very little alcohol, I don't eat junk food, I don't do drugs, I exercise regularly, I eat healthily, I am not overweight and my blood pressure & cholesterol are well within recommended levels.

You naive fool! Have you not realised that God is a sick, twisted bastard! You're unknowingly lining yourself up to die in some freak falling-grand-piano related incident

Well if its just association im really really not concerned 🙂

(not that i would have been anyway)
[url] http://hellokinsella.posterous.com/the-daily-mail-list-of-things-that-give-you-c [/url]

Shock horror, red meat will kill you.....

Kill it first - less chance of getting trampled

You naive fool! Have you not realised that God is a sick, twisted bastard! You're unknowingly lining yourself up to die in some freak falling-grand-piano related incident

Ah religion now that will kill you early!

(In a study of suicide bombers it was found that religion was a major contributing factor to premature death)

titusrider ^^^ isn't that just a list of everything that exists in the world?

Popularist journalism and scientific research does not mix........

[i]isn't that just a list of everything that exists in the world?[/i]
😆

**I've not bothered to look at the list, I've seen that sort of thing before**

I can't help but wonder.
When you see so many people who [i]appear[/i] to be eating the [i]wrong ?[/i] stuff.
Yet who get way into their 50s, 60s, 70s.
Either its all mumbo-jumbo or the human body can't half take some abuse over what is for us, a life time.

[i]Popularist journalism and scientific research does not mix........ [/i]

Well.... they do kinda.
Just add a liberal dose of blog.

(In a study of suicide bombers it was found that religion was a major contributing factor to premature death)

Hopefully, they all drive VWs as well.

According to the BBC this morning you are 20% more likely to die.

Hey.

Guess what...

On second thoughts, stop nagging us and bossing us around about what we can and can't eat.

i dont know where to start with this one but do they all think we are stupid.

they studies show you would have to eat half a cows arse to suffer any issues.on the other hand just one maccy d,s a week has the same effect .

its more about the form it comes in that just the meat .....bastards i tell thee.

dunno why people are getting so het up about this
(apart from those with a vested interest...... say if you have a company that promotes a diet that advocates eating lots of red meat 😉 )

eating too much red and processed meat increases your risk of heart disease and cancer
(tbh i was considering putting bowel cancer on the idave diet side effects thread but decided against it)

people are advised not to eat too much of either

you can follow that advice and probably live a bit longer or ignore it
the same way you can choose to wear a helmet when cycling or not

[i]dunno why people are getting so het up about this[/i]

Err, I don't think any one is.
Its just a discussion.
😉

[i]eating too much red and processed meat increases your risk of heart disease and cancer

people are advised not too eat too much of either
[/i]

** Not directed at Kimbers specifically **
But makes me wonder... How much meat should you eat a day/week, etc ?.

if I eat some grass after my triple bacon cow-arse burger, will I be ok?

[i]if I eat some grass after my triple bacon cow-arse burger, will I be ok?[/i]

Try it and let us know.
After all, whats the worst that could happen ?.

How much meat should you eat a day/week, etc ?.

http://www.dh.gov.uk/en/MediaCentre/Pressreleases/DH_124670

The Department advises:

* people who eat a lot of red or processed meat - around 90g or more of cooked weight per day - are at greater risk of getting bowel cancer;
* cutting down to the UK average of 70g a day can help reduce the risk; and
* this can be achieved by eating smaller portions or by eating red and processed meat less often.

Examples of a 70g portion of meat are:

* one medium portion shepherds pie and a rasher of bacon;
* two standard beef burgers;
* six slices of salami;
* one lamb chop;
* two slices of roast lamb, beef or pork; or
* three slices of ham.

if I eat some grass after my triple bacon cow-arse burger, will I be ok?

Wrong way round. Smoke the grass, then have the burger.

they studies show you would have to eat half a cows arse to suffer any issues.on the other hand just one maccy d,s a week has the same effect .

I'm not sticking up for McD's but I can't see how their burgers are any worse for you than any prepackaged sandwich full of salt, sugar and mayo, etc.

Surely this is just another report about how eating anything to extremes is not a good idea. The other week they were moaning on the radio that kids drink too many fruit juice based drinks these days and there teeth are taking a hamming. Really? You do surprise me. FFS!

How much meat should you eat a day/week, etc ?.

Yeh, these so-called 'experts' are brilliant aren't they...

"ooooh, don't eat too much of that, you'll be killed to death"

"ah, ok ... so, how much is too much?"

"oh, we've no idea about that..."

oao3v16 - Member

How much meat should you eat a day/week, etc ?.

Yeh, these so-called 'experts' are brilliant aren't they...

"ooooh, don't eat too much of that, you'll be killed to death"

"ah, ok ... so, how much is too much?"

"oh, we've no idea about that..."

* cutting down to the UK average of 70g a day can help reduce the risk; and

The Department advises:

* people who eat a lot of red or processed meat - around 90g or more of cooked weight per day - are at greater risk of getting bowel cancer;

Ok. Please explain more.

* cutting down to the UK average of 70g a day can help reduce the risk;

Pray tell, how in the name of all that's holy do I reduce my intake from 90g to 70g. For the life of me I cannot imagine how on earth it could be achieved without some kind of great technological breakthrough. Or maybe an 'app' on my smartphone.

* this can be achieved by eating smaller portions or by eating red and processed meat less often.

Ah. Put less of it into my mouth. Thank goodness for advice like this. I would never have thought of that all by myself.

Now can you help me get dressed and tie my shoe laces. Thanks.

I might also need my bottom wiping later if I need a poo.

Looking through the data it would appear that the people who eat the most meat also smoked the most.
[url] http://archinte.ama-assn.org/cgi/content-nw/full/archinternmed.2011.2287v1/IOI110027T1 [/url]

Also of interest is that the odds of High Cholesterol appear inversely proportional to the amount of meat eaten.

IanMunro - Member

Looking through the data it would appear that the people who eat the most meat also smoked the most.
http://archinte.ama-assn.org/cgi/content-nw/full/archinternmed.2011.2287v1/IOI110027T1

Also of interest is that the odds of High Cholesterol appear inversely proportional to the amount of meat eaten.

but also increased high blood pressure and bmi