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A good time to write to your new MPs if your constituency changed hands. Congratulate you new MP and ask them to remind Starmer of what he stood/ stands for.
I see that her final route of appeal looks to be ECHR. I then thought about the Daily Mail reaction if ECHR overrule and she (brown girl with foreign name) comes back to the UK as a result of an ECHR ruling. The Daily Wail readers will absolutely explode. I would imaging a fair few of them would have an actual stroke through sheer anger. It will be brilliant.
I’m also pretty sure she’d be back here in prison if she was white
I reckon if the story was written with her called Alice and white the Daily Mail and the like would be clamouring for her to be allowed home (and not in prison).
Interesting:
Countries Don’t Want Their ISIS Foreign Fighters Back: A Review (pbs.org)
Terrible situation - am I right in assuming the decision that there were no valid legal reasons for an appeal is because the law gave the government the power to do this?
Unusual for a law to be drafted so thoroughly, sadly.
Terrible situation – am I right in assuming the decision that there were no valid legal reasons for an appeal is because the law gave the government the power to do this?
Unusual for a law to be drafted so thoroughly, sadly.
That's the way I understand it... I might be wrong though.
The fact is she was a minor, and obviously coerced/groomed, so 'normally' any back street lawer should easily be able to fight it in court and win, on grounds she wasn't old enough to make an informed and free choice.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8d9plerrrqo
David Lammy told Good Morning Britain on Thursday that Ms Begum's case had gone through the courts and that she was "not a UK national".
He said that the government would "act in our security interests. And many of those in those camps are dangerous, are radicals."
I wonder if Lammy struggled to keep a straight face when he implied that Shamina Begum is a dangerous radical and a threat to UK national security.
Conservative leader Kemi Badenoch has also said Ms Begum should not return. "Citizenship means committing to a country and wanting its success"
Of course it doesn't mean that. It generally just means that the person was born in the country concerned.
Maybe she believes that anyone with a criminal conviction should be stripped of their citizenship?
To be fair to Lammy, he's between a rock and a hard place. The law has decided she has no right to come here, the recommendation is now that she could. This isn't the first time that the Tory legacy will be a mess to unpick.
I would love for the government to simply retrospectively change the law so citizens can't be stripped of their right to live here.
Given how keen trump’s terror lead is to see her out of Syria perhaps they can offer her citizenship of the USA
It's all very well and good Gorka politicking as he does, but the US would simply have interred her without trial in Gitmo if she was a US citizen, he's clearly not recognised the moral high ground is a plateau and we're looking at each other awkwardly.
Trump really is going for the mid-wit version of the avengers for his staff.
Do you think Lord Far Far's handlers are coming up with the most stupid things for him to agree to, just to see how much of their bitch he is?
To be fair to Lammy
Let's not. He has the option to let her back and for 'due process' to then take place with an appropriate judicial punishment for the mis-guided woman. There's really no downside for him as he can uphold our national commitment to the supremacy of the law not the media (anti-social or otherwise).
the mis-guided woman.
Mis-guided child. If she had murdered someone the judicial system would have given her anonymity because she was a child.
And she would have been released from a Young Offenders Institution by now.
I'd also suggest, as most of us did here months ago, that if she is that dangerous, we should have her back her to keep her locked up or monitored, rather than being free to plot her world takeover from a camp somewhere.
She should have been returned, appraised, faced justice instead of being used a point scoring pawn for those that dislike brown folk with different names.
As it is she's festering in a camp. She's more likely to inspire our disaffected to take up extremism while she remains there and I can see her being martyred.
She may be an adult (A very damaged with a massive bag of spuds on her shoulder) now, but at the time she was a child groomed.
Exactly. Far from not letting her return, we should be demanding it.
But, we're back to Starmer playing it safe again.
. The law has decided she has no right to come here
That's an arse-about-face of looking at it imo. The Supreme Court decided that the political decision to remove her citizenship was lawful.
Therefore I see no reason why it would not be lawful for the current Home Secretary to reverse that and reinstate her citizenship.
Nor any reason why the current government, with a huge **** off majority, doesn't introduce legislation to remove these unreasonable powers from the Home Secretary.
Well other than they are scared of Daily Mail columnists. Which really isn't the way to tackle the growing far-right threat. Agreeing with Nigel Farage's narrative isn't what will defeat him, it is what will boost his support though.
Don't make racism and bigotry mainstream if you want to defeat it.
Well other than they are scared of Daily Mail columnists.
Exactly this but as Brazil demonstrated with the levers of legislation PLC's can be brought to heel by cutting off their funds and markets. Rothermere should be careful he does not provoke the beast, it has a huge majority.
@ernielynch my comment applies to how she is now, I conced and have aregued in the past that she was a trafficked child and should have been treated as a victim. As a responsible nation we should clear up our own mess not cut it adrift for others to deal with.
Don’t make racism and bigotry mainstream if you want to defeat it.
It's a bit late for that. That's one for the Brexit Benefits thread if you don't like foreigners, 2016 normalised racism. I've heard comments passed that I haven't heard since the 1980s (and I'm white so gods only know how people of a darker complexion are faring).
It’s a bit late for that.
You think that Nigel Farage's bigotry and racism is now mainstream UK politics ...... the Labour Party is now also a racist party?
Perhaps you can you explain why Reform UK are currently doing so well and why their support is growing? Obviously it isn't connected to the fact that they are racist because, according to you, that is mainstream politics now.
So what do think a growing number of voters are finding so attractive about Reform UK?
But, we’re back to Starmer playing it safe again
He was DPP you know. Although I must admit he makes Tony Blair look like Che Guevara (the real one).
The labour party follow the racist brexit policy and have been blowing racist dog whistles for years.
They have outsourced their foreign policy to the right wing propaganda organs and their fear of racist voter
You think that Nigel Farage’s bigotry and racism is now mainstream UK politics
It has been for some time.
the Labour Party is now also a racist party?
Is it?
There was a degree of antisemitism accusations levelled at Corbyn's tenure, how much of that held water I don't know. It's not a subject I know much about, though it does seem to be a lazy stick to beat with.
Perhaps you can you explain why Reform UK are currently doing so well and why their support is growing? Obviously it isn’t connected to the fact that they are racist because, according to you, that is mainstream politics now.
I don't follow your logic here, sorry. That's exactly why they're gaining support. That sect is phenomenally good at telling people what they want to hear, and what a lot of people want to hear is unpleasant.
So what do think a growing number of voters are finding so attractive about Reform UK?
I've already explained my thoughts on this, several times over.
I’m not sure why everyone seems to think racism is solely a right wing policy. It exists on both sides of the centre
This may be true in itself, but it's hardly a balanced scale. It's a bit of a "why aren't you out catching real criminals?" argument. Not having the monopoly on racism isn't really something to be boasting about.
I’m not sure why everyone seems to think racism is solely a right wing policy. It exists on both sides of the centre
Racism is pretty much exclusively right-wing. Which is why it is now widely used by the media as the defining characteristic of what is right-wing, despite the fact that it is an oversimplification.
Obviously if you want to argue that lefties or liberals who criticize Israel's treatment of Palestinians are racist, as the Israeli government does on a daily basis, then that is a whole different issue.
"but the US would simply have interred her without trial"
Surely that's a bit drastic, even for the USA....
Let’s not. He has the option to let her back and for ‘due process’
Giving someone back their citizenship back so you can put them on trial is against International law (for obvious reasons)
Racism is pretty much exclusively right-wing. Which is why it is now widely used by the media as the defining characteristic of what is right-wing, despite the fact that it is an oversimplification.
I didn't make my point very well - plenty of extreme "left wing" groups/parties have been involved with racism, there's a view that the South African trade unionists supported apartheid as it protected white jobs, communist Russia has gone after minorities, our own "red wall" gave Boris what he needed for Brexit. I've said before that left and right aren't a straight line continuum, they curve round till the extremes meet in a circle, hence National Socialism.
Anyway, Begum and any other British citizens need to be brought back home for whatever trial/punishment/monitoring that each individual requires. We can't expect other countries/militia groups to do our dirty work for us. Far better than leaving these camps to breed the next generation of terrorists
against International law
Im not sure there is such a thing these days. International law affects the far rights ability to act illegally, which is why i feel the concept is now dead.
I’ve said before that left and right aren’t a straight line continuum, they curve round till the extremes meet in a circle, hence National Socialism.
Yes this is often trotted out but in reality the fish hook model plays out far more often.
For "national socialism". You could start with the obvious problem that names arent always honest or do you believe the Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea actually tried to be any of the first three?
For the Nazis in particular locking in on "socialism" in the name is something the hard right are fond of but shows a lack of understanding of how it was used in Germany at the time dating back to Bismarck's embrace of it to try and fend off the left. Which was pretty much what the Nazis continued using it to try and get some left wing votes. Whilst there were some who did seem to believe in a warped variation it shouldnt be surprising they were quickly purged once Hitler got power.
As the Bolsheviks also demonstrated offering things to the working class is great to help gain power but something to bin off once you do or go back further to levellers, diggers etc who soon had it explained to them that revolutions only go so far.
Giving someone back their citizenship back so you can put them on trial is against International law
I would counter that with removal was not exactly lawful either with the reasons given and accepted as proven to be spurious as the young woman is currently stateless. As ever the law has not moved much from when Denning was around and refuses the concede that mistakes may have been made that need correcting. Nothing is ever infalllible and justice is equally flawed at times.
Isn’t it something how we simultaneously have scandals about about how abusers were allowed by the police to operate in the open in multiple British locations with their teenage prey seen as troublesome provocateurs instead of victims with the usual vacant human foghorns up in arms and calling for regime change, while the alleged political appeasers seem unironically insistent that this girl be seen as a provocateur and not a victim of grooming this time with the support of the loud bigots? I have insufficient capacity for cognitive dissonance to separate these things.
Case soon to be heard at the ECHR. On the lawfulness of removal of nationality. I think the general consensus here was that she should be brought back to the UK and face justice. Interestingly that is precisely the point made by the Telegraph in an opinion piece I've just read.
Basically removal of British nationality is a stain on our judicial system that drags down our standing internationally. I find it distressing that i am in agreement with the likes of Rees-Mogg, and the Telegraph - not a typical supporter of the ECHR, but so be it.
https://apple.news/A5OsGcuJzRF6oTv2fx2ye5g
With the rise of Reform - I just don't see the government backing down regardless what the ECHR conclude.
Who is paying her legal fees? Can only imagine how expensive they will be.
She needs to win. I don't want to live under any government that has the power to strip me of my citizenship and abandon me or deport me because I did something stupid at 15.
Something Farage would do well to keep in mind.
I see that her final route of appeal looks to be ECHR. I then thought about the Daily Mail reaction if ECHR overrule and she (brown girl with foreign name) comes back to the UK as a result of an ECHR ruling. The Daily Wail readers will absolutely explode. I would imaging a fair few of them would have an actual stroke through sheer anger. It will be brilliant.
Unfortunately, this would be weaponised and the next election will be fought around leaving the ECHR to protect our borders 🙁
She needs to win. I don't want to live under any government that has the power to strip me of my citizenship and abandon me or deport me because I did something stupid at 15.
Something Farage would do well to keep in mind.
He’s struggling with the stuff he did at 15 at the moment 🙂
Unfortunately, this would be weaponised and the next election will be fought around leaving the ECHR to protect our borders
Which is why Labour's decision to keep fighting it is so stupid and self defeating.
The majority of Brits understand the importance of human rights and staying in the ECHR. I want a party/government that will loudly champion that to drown out the noisy minority.
Who is paying her legal fees?
I suspect that a lot of Pro Bono work is being undertaken but as for who, it is neither my nor your business. (Unless you are not a fan of due process, in which case beware as that can bite you too if you step out of line).
I feel reassured that the ECHR are to be involved, and look forward to their thoughts on this mess. I can’t access the telegraph article, and it may not answer this question anyway, what court do adults appear in to face justice for their behaviour as children? The point was made a few posts ago about being tried as a juvenile and probably having been released by now following any imprisonment.
A while ago I heard a conspiracy theory that she had been smuggled back into the country and was living a life of luxury with a new identity, while laughing at the British taxpayers funding it.
I always suspected the guy was a nob, and this just gave me the proof I needed to cut him out of my circle