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https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02nrss1/episodes/downloads
More or Less is a statistics programme/podcast on Radio 4 and held in much esteem by many (including me).
I’m happy that the establishments will do everything they can to mitigate the chances of my kids getting anything or passing anything around.
Do you have any evidence to support that assumption, based on the way the UK government have handled the crisis so far?
There's a legitimate debate to be had about when kids should return to school, but I can't see how the vast majority of English schools could possibly be ready to do that by 1st June. It looks like a lot of people at the sharp end of the business are just saying no way, not possible.
If schools remain at the current limited opening then, with funding, there could be changes made to the school building - extra sinks in classrooms, temporary partition walls in halls and dining rooms, additional entrances to the school grounds, fencing to divide up playgrounds, etc. - and recruitment of additional staff, which would allow safer, fuller opening in the autumn term.
*places tin foil hat on head*
Of course, if your plan is to use school opening as a tap to turn on/off the rate of infection to achieve herd immunity without overwhelming the NHS...
More or Less is a statistics programme/podcast on Radio 4 and held in much esteem by many (including me).
+1
The average sink to child ration in English schools is 1 to 30
I doubt that includes hot water, my science lab doesnt.
I do think this partial opening over the summer term is a test of facilities and transmission rates with a view to greater opening in September.
My lad is a potential Year 12 guinea pig in this experiment. He's pretty confident that college wouldn't expect them in unless they felt they had a suitable and sustainable way of doing it. He's also aware that his A levels and uni entry next year will depend on everyone judging it right.
The exact wording of PM speech was:
In step two – at the earliest by June 1 – after half term – we believe we may be in a position to begin the phased reopening of shops and to get primary pupils back into schools, in stages, beginning with reception, Year 1 and Year 6.
A few of those words seem to have been forgotten along the way and taken 1 June as anything more than a target for schools to prepare by.
I’m not even sure to what extent schools that have academy status (as many are now) can be forced to do anything.
Our local school is doing bubbles. or something like it. instead of five full days, jr will get two half days. I make that a class size 10% of the full size class. This means they can get spread out nicely.
I assume the two teachers the class usually has, will be split between the new small classes, and will stick with one half of the classes for the duration.
I think in the rush to expose the problems with the plan, the actual details of the announcement got drowned out
Edit - which has put a lot of unnecessary pressure on schools, staff and parents.
Not wanting to divert the discussion, but I just want to pick up on this point about hand washing:
I doubt that includes hot water, my science lab doesnt.
Water temperature is not a critical factor in hand washing. The necessary chemical reaction will occur with cold tap water. It's the time spent applying soap and the technique which are critical.
Here's an excellent article explaining the science:
https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2020/3/11/21173187/coronavirus-covid-19-hand-washing-sanitizer-compared-soap-is-dope
The BMA were advising against the return to school but last night gone fully against it and said its OK..... ****in stinks, how do you sleep at night
The BMA were advising against the return to school but last night gone fully against it and said its OK….. *
Thats not what they said though as far as I can see.
From beeb, full article behind times paywall if anyone can cut and paste
The doctors' union, the British Medical Association, said schools should reopen "as soon as it is safe to do so", but warned "a zero-risk approach is not possible".
"This is about 'safe' being an acceptable level of risk," the BMA's Dr Peter English wrote in the Daily Telegraph.
That is still inline with a different bma person saying its not safe for 1st June.
No one believes schools shouldnt open if safe and safe will still pose some risk. The debate is when is it safe and what the risks are and when are they acceptable.
Looks like I'm back in from start of june with fave to face meetings with 10's and 12's...lots of "where possible" in RA!!!
now as it stands dont know when I need to be in school or between which times and neither does my partner with her school and we don't know if our sons primary has a place for him but we do know that without before or after school provision we both cant work at the same time.
A concern of mine is that whatever the measures schools put in place a good number of local kids walk via the park and skateboard ramp, meet their mates etc. That could be stirring it up and when the boarding school lot come back that too could be a logistical petri dish.
My friend teaches at the local school. They want to bring back year 6 (among others). For distancing they would need to go from classes of 30 to 15 kids. So 4 teachers needed, instead of 2. Plan is to use year 3 teachers.
Which mean year 3 would now have no on-line learning or pastoral care at all. My friend had refuses to abandon her class.
Perhaps the Government would like to release funding to pay for the additional teachers required.
Looks like we're continuing with just online, while "exploring options" for face-to-face. Our main issue is that Y12 is 50% of our College, and that a third of them travel considerable distances on coaches to get to us while almost all the rest use public transport.
Also impossible really to have one fixed teacher per small group of students as they're all doing various A-levels.
Our summer is earlier, so we on'y have four weeks between half-term and the summer anyway. Back in on the Monday after A-level results day.
I've just read that 50 French schools have just closed down again having eased off a week ago.
Primary school in Derby is closed after two cases. I think I'm vaguely reassured that it seems to be the first localish school to have had an outbreak since lockdown, in a city that was a bit of a hotspot. Although only 3 miles from us as the virus flies.....
I think I’m vaguely reassured that it seems to be the first localish school to have had an outbreak since lockdown,
Given schools are largely empty apart from a few key worker kids thats not great though. I also wonder what the delay was between suspected infection 1 and lock down given the lack of testing and also how many asymptomatic kids had it if we presume the two cases are adults?
interesting article about almost certain second wave...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/20/top-eu-doctor-europe-should-brace-itself-for-second-wave-of-coronavirus
i expect if the school return that 2nd wave will happen alot sooner...I read a interesting reason for the push to reopen schools, it gives deflection for the torys, making teachers into scapegoats.
The 1st of June was a conditional date, the five tests still apply, testing and tracing is clearly our priority
Now I’ve notice it at PMQs, it’s popping up all over the place… the government comms people have already been working hard to get rid of “isolate” from track/trace/isolate… and now they’re busy getting us to forget about “track”, at least for now. Perhaps it’ll come back when they have a decent app for us.
i expect if the school return that 2nd wave will happen alot sooner
Could be, I am also concerned about the intended consequence of schools reopening which is that more adults go back to work its not a simple calculation of the risk to kids and teachers.
Paediatric fecal-oral shedding https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0817-4
I simply cannot see how a child does not contribute to transmission. Seroprevalence surveys are underway. I bet they look similar to adults, but with much reduced morbidity.
Characteristics here https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2005073?url_ver=Z39.88-2003&rfr_id=ori:rid:crossref.org&rfr_dat=cr_pub%20%200pubmed
Prior belief from previous SARS-COV-1 here
https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/117/6/e1156
Just because they don't have lots of symptoms does not stop them shedding virus.
Based on the amount of kids in groups out in the woods today they may as well send back years 10, 11 and 6th form back. They’re socialising anyway so they may as well get educated whilst they do it, as opposed to getting stoned and drinking.
I suppose they could have been family groups, family groups where brothers snog sisters...
Based on the amount of kids in groups out in the woods today
Just saw a load of yr12's from school having Domino's in the field of local nature reserve.
East Cheshire plan is now Yr 6 not going back until 29th June and even then "only if schools have the room for them"
Sept I reckon...
According to someone earlier in the thread, french schools went Back and only 70 new cases, which is good news.
In what way is that good news.
In 9 days since the schools opened we have 70 new cases which due to incubation period of the virus are unlikely to be related to schools opening.
How ever those 70 people have been exposed to the school wider populous.
In 15-21 days time is when you can make assumptions such is *that's a good number *
Right now that statistic is meaningless and certainly not "good"
In a secondary, are kids just going to be babysat by a member of staff while they complete work set by their various subjects? Same for FE.
Yeah, that seems to be the word on the virtual-common-room-floor at the moment, at least for Yr10 this term.
It would probably mean that only core subjects get a look in.
Only issue (and it's a biggie!) is if we're in school looking after the Yr10s, who is going to be setting and looking at online work for the other year groups?
@robbo1234biking Springfield in Spondon. Not clear if the kids have tested positive or just got symptoms
In a secondary, are kids just going to be babysat by a member of staff while they complete work set by their various subjects? Same for FE.
My school is planning 30min face to face meetings 1 to 1 between core subject teachers and year 10's and 11's. From 3rd June.
Sorry that should say 10's and 12's...too late to edit
Is it just me or:
- Kids need social interaction, even if 'distanced' (doesn't matter so much about the 'education' bit)
- Classrooms are too small for social distancing
- It seems COVID transmission risk is WAY less outdoors
- Loads of cancelled events = marquee companies out of business
- ...Outdoor classrooms anyone?
And Forest School for those schools that can - kids love it.
Even if it is only a couple of days a week.
We spoke about outdoor/marquees today at work. It is a possibility, but not really viable in Scotland after September.
Loads of cancelled events = marquee companies out of business
Its been my view that a load of outdoor hand washing stations could be put in schools too, like the ones common at festivals. Costs money though and schools dont have any.
Outdoor classrooms anyone?
Yes.
As Scotland director of a national outdoor learning and play charity, there is a lot happening behind the scenes.
I'm also as of today advising the Scottish government Education Recovery Group on outdoor learning and play as we go back, and Scottish Futures Trust on the outdoor space usage.
I can confidently say that we are moving very quickly, that Scottish and Welsh governments are looking and listening, engaging well with key groups.
Westminster and DfE in England.... Not so much bordering on not caring.
Costs money though and schools dont have any.
Like the NHS spend, there is no choice. We need to spend. It will be spent.
It is a possibility, but not really viable in Scotland after September.
We're outdoors year round. Put a jumper on.
Classes won't be outdoors all day.
Quelle surprise!! Good on you Matt - all sounds like good ideas.
My oldest is in Y10. Letter from head today, they are going in 1 day per week after HT. class size of 10, dedicated room, dedicated desk, just core subjects.
She normally goes by train, but as I’m grounded I’ll drive her - it’s only 4 days. I might well park up & go for a long ride whilst she’s in school!!
The media normalisation continues...
BBC Education reporter wandering through a taped off primary school library pretty much shoulder to shoulder with the headteacher as they discuss distancing and other safety procedures.
The media normalisation continues
One of the key problems we have is that images in the media (usually at the extreme or oddball part of the spectrum) just set us down these ineffective and dead end routes.
I've a network of 150+ outdoor professionals, play organisations, outdoor organisations, 12+ landscape architects and more all feeding into Scottish government via just 4 of us and 4 civil servants, working on one workstream of 12, with a number of areas of focus in the education work stream. It's quick, scarily so at times, but it's a solid and inclusive process which will get some detailed practical advice out in a week or so.
We need to spend. It will be spent
I bet you £50 quid it wont.
the climbdown continues. The aim is now " june the first at the earliest"
Shambolic and chaotic
Our estates manager has measured up some classrooms - in the smaller ones we can fit 6 students. Our bus companies have said they can take 12 students on a coach.
We have 1000 Y12 students, 1/3 of whom arrive on the buses. Can't see us going back before the summer.