I saw they were at pains to stress yesterday that a small outbreak somewhere in Scotland was due to outside school mixing. Though presumably the kids involved will have been in their separate schools since getting infected?
Thread bump.
Scotland is fully back.
To be joined by England, Wales and NI over the next three weeks.I’m placing a bet, having an insider’s view of Education, that we are a month off various classes being sent home for a fortnight, or rolling closures of whole schools through lack of staff or infection concerns.
By the end of October we may well be back at home schooling…Sorry to be the pessimis
Going by what is happening at my wife's secondary school - no social distancing, no ppe, no hand sanitiser, minimal disinfectant sprays and no extra cleaning I fully agree. It's nuts & inevitable what's about to happen. Also saddening that it'll be coming into our household very soon. Kinda feel the effort we've gone to over the last 5 months has been for nowt.
MOAB I think you will see SOME individual schools closed for 3 weeks at a time (or maybe even clusters of schools - like a secondary and its associated primaries - not sure how that might work in areas where there is a less obvious geographic link to schooling); but I don't believe you are going to see the 4 countries closing all schools in October (bear in mind that schools north of the border have 1-2 weeks in October as breathing space) - the only reason for doing that is if disease spread is going faster than track and trace ability.
I agree that we are pretty much guaranteed to not have a smooth, consistent return to school. I think staff absence (through self-isolation) will have the first impact, and then bubbles/year groups being closed down once positive tests are seen in students.
I think government will ideologically resist full school closures for a stupid length of time after it becomes wise to do so again.
If my school is anything to go by, there is a pretty much unspoken understanding that we will be distance learning or a blended approach for much of this coming school year. That's certainly how we're planning things.
There is no way things are going to be fair for Year 11 and 13 students this year across the countries. Local closures, differences in provision, and staff absence are going to have a massive impact. Even with the already announced changes to next year's GCSEs it's impossible for there to be a level playing field IMO. I'll be Head of Year 11 in two weeks time and I'm really concerned for our year group...
given it has a 5-10 day incubation time any cases reported now in scotland will, more than likely, be pre-school mixing.
we have to get them back to school at some point!
there have been hordes of non-socially-distant school kids roaming the streets anyway - if they are goign to be in packs anyway they might as well get taught at the same time.
Was at school this AM (in Edinburgh) - handwashing stations in the playgrounds, hand santiser everywhere you looked. VERY well organised for both angst ridden middle class parents and mostly nonplussed children. I know a few of the teachers who are anxious but not overly worried about it all right now. Who knows but I doff my cap to the work the school has done.
We (large sixth form college in England) started back last Friday.
For the first three weeks our second years are still remote learning, with staff in College, because we need to enrol 1000 new first years students and the usual approach won't work so it's going to take a lot longer than usual.
On Sept 7th our second years start in college, with first years in the day after - alternating Y1 then Y2 for two weeks.
In theory, from the 21st we have all 2000 students on site for their normal timetable.
I concur with Matt and Polly, who more or less said rhe same thing. Social distancing in school is so challenging as to be effectively impossible. The ventilation remains poor. By the time a local outbreak is detected the toothpaste will be out of the tube, and it will take a 3 week minimum local lockdown to get the cap back on. It could be local whackamole, it could be much wider.
Coronavirus being spread in schools is a statistical certainty. My only hope is that the death rate seems to have slowed right down. It hasn't stopped though.
I think shielding has had a huge impact on controlling the death rate.
Even since shielding was ended by the government, I believe most shielded people have continued to act in a similar way as they know they are still extremely vulnerable. Employers have had to take vulnerability into account too due to h&s law.
Most of the "new" spread has been in the "pub going" age groups that believe they can cope with the virus, and in most cases probably can.
The problems are going to come with the schools reopening when the kids of "pub goers" and the kids of "ex shielded" mix. For many vulnerable people, it's the only route for the virus into the household that they can't defend.
I'm pretty confident the school and college our two go to will have done all they can to minimise the risks, but kids are kids and no system is foolproof.
We certainly need to get as many kids back to school as is possible, for their education, for their mental health, for their parents mental health and their ability to do their jobs without having to homeschool at the same time.
I don't expect it to go smoothly, I expect some local closures, I expect some remote learning over the course of this year. I have the utmost respect for teachers trying to deal with all this.
I'm worried it could go badly wrong - the kids will see their grandparents this week and maybe once more before they return to school, and that will be it until at least October half term. They are all 80plus and at risk.
I'm clinging to the thought that detected infection rates are up but deaths are down, treatment options seem much better (unless hospitals get swamped), kids have been mixing over the holidays more widely, and none of the worst doom mongering predictions about VE day, Bournemouth beaches, shops and pubs reopening have proved correct so far.
Loum, the spikes have been repeatedly blamed on transmission in the home amongst family members breaking the restrictions in the north of England, ironically not through mixing in the pubs despite the ridiculous mixing we've seen.
I can see schools returning make this worse. I also think a lot of schools will shut down at some point due to lack of staff, between those with genuine health risks, those that actually get it and those that use any excuse to take time off, (unfortunately every school has a proportion of them as it's rare for a teacher to sacked on attendance grounds) there won't be enough staff in place to keep the kids safely supervised.
@loum I have to agree. As a person who was (with all intents and purposes) shielding I feel we are now entering possibly the more dangerous phase for the 'ex shielders'. We as a household have been exceptionally careful over the past 6 months and thankfully been unaffected however our 7 year old daughter returned to school this week and we know other families have been much less vigilant.
We have been super careful upto now but feel as if now have an open path into the home from essentially any of the other less vigilant families from the school. All we can do is monitor if there is even a single case in her school that's it, she's out for the foreseeable.
Personally I'm struggling with it a little but seeing the joy and excitement on our daughters face coming home from school after being stuck at home with boring mum and dad for 6 months is priceless.
those that actually get it and those that use any excuse to take time off,
Thing is if you start coughing you shouldnt go to work. Its attitudes like yours that led to the shitshow in April and May.
Loum, the spikes have been repeatedly blamed on transmission in the home amongst family members breaking the restrictions in the north of England, ironically not through mixing in the pubs despite the ridiculous mixing we’ve seen.
I think they've said *mostly* through transmission in the home, which is always likely to be the case - 1 person brings it into the home then you've a whole household with no social distancing, shared facilities in the same space for 12-24 hours a day. Then your household mixes with another, and that entire family is eventually infected too. I'd be amazed if pubs were not a significant vector in infecting that first person. And sadly, schools will be too. I think it will come down to schools or hospitality and this govt will choose the wrong one 🙁
AA, there you go again, are you that dismissive and condescending with yor pupils as well. That's not what I'm talking about, anyone showing symptoms obviously shouldn't go in and should go and get tested. The school system copes under normal circumstances despite the high absence levels from certain staff members, combine that lack of attendance from that group plus people ill with Covid or showing potential symptoms and staff who are more vulnerable to covid will initially put a lot more stress on the staff who are working, it won't be sustainable indefinitely.
And you can keep your ill informed and insulting assumptions about my attitudes to yourself, I've worked from home since the start of lockdown, not been out to the pub or unnecessary shopping, haven't been socialising in other people's houses, have kept away from parents and havent been on holiday.
Richpenny, not the message were being given up north, transmission is between households and has tended to be within communities that aren't frequent pub goers. I must admit the scenes outside bars locally don't look great, maybe it's political but the message is coming from local not national government. Fully agree though that schools will become major vectors as kids from different geographical areas and communities mix. I think the government has already prioritised hospitality over schools.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-53828588
A house where about 200 people attended a lockdown party has been subjected to a three-month closure order with only the owner allowed access.
Greater Manchester Police (GMP) and Manchester City Council obtained a court order after a party at the house on Harlow Drive, Gorton, on Saturday.
Officers were hit with missiles as they tried to break up the gathering.
Insp Jim Adams of GMP said: "This incident was completely unacceptable and incomprehensible."
He added: "I am pleased that the court has accepted our application to extend the 48-hour closure notice to ensure that there are no further illegal large gatherings at this property."
GMP has already issued a £100 fixed penalty notice to a 27-year-old woman who organised the party.
I get that it's in a house and not actually within a pub, but it's "pub going" aged socializers having a good drink up.
But it doesn't really matter how you classify it. there's people that are mixing and have kids, and there's people that are vulnerable- effectively shielding- and have kids, and the schools will be the only transmission vector into some of those vulnerable people.
Those banging on that all children need to get back into school for mental health reasons really need to have a good think about the mental health of the kids that will become virus transmission routes to kill vulnerable family members.
I get that it’s in a house and not actually within a pub, but it’s “pub going” aged socializers having a good drink up.
So not in a pub then, which locally at least have been trying to keep people a) outside b) socially distanced and c) doing track and trace as best they can.
I'm not a fan of pubs being open again, and haven't been to one, but my doubts about the risks of opening them haven't been proved right yet. Somehow it seems to just about be working. I'd happily see them closed again if it means schools can open more safely
AA, there you go again, are you that dismissive and condescending with yor pupils as well.
Nope I save it for those that deserve it such as you.
Been back for 9 days and it's not fun. No social distancing between pupils, no ability for staff to social distance from pupils. Another timetable model coming in. I've been teaching for 18years and never felt so underpepared.
Hmm. What was that comment about whack-a-mole?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-53840123
The Mash nails it again
Gavin Williamson ‘incredibly sorry’ for next month’s schools reopening shambles
Williamson only has one job now, take the flak and resign when told.
But it doesn’t really matter how you classify it. there’s people that are mixing and have kids, and there’s people that are vulnerable- effectively shielding- and have kids, and the schools will be the only transmission vector into some of those vulnerable people.
This. Those most at risk are still being careful, while others at lower risk are increasingly taking the ‘get back out there’ messaging at face value. Those different demographics combine when schools return.
Oh, and those needing to shield should still be getting the support they need. “Pausing” shielding should have been optional, on a case by case basis, rather than pulling food parcels and telling at risk people to get back to work or go broke. And the rest of us should be acting to protect them as well. Including the government providing the funding and help needed to enable children at risk, and the children sharing a home with people at risk, to learn and contribute to school life from their homes. This is 2021, we have the tech to achieve that.
