[Closed] Screw top wine.

Fool

[url= http://www.jancisrobinson.com/learn/drinking-wine/stoppers-cork-or-screwcap ]http://www.jancisrobinson.com/learn/drinking-wine/stoppers-cork-or-screwcap[/url]

Screwtops make a better seal apparently. A preference for cork is just nostalgia and snobbery. Unless you open your Champagne with a sabre...

There is no real point in a cork (other than tradition/ceremony) if you're not planning to cellar the wine for any length of time.

A Stelvin Closure (screw top) indicates that the wine is good to drink right now.
And of course it means there is minimal chance of getting a spoiled/corked bottle.

That said... I still prefer a cork for the ceremony of it.

I tend not to buy wine that has artificial cork or indeed freshly placed genuine cork.

how the **** can you tell, do you go round cutting the seals off all the bottles in the shop ? 😕

No problem with screw top port wine.

I only buy wine with a cork

For absoluetely no other reason than the wife got me a campag big bottle opener work of art for my 30th,

Its no good for screw tops.

Ive stooped as low as the wine boxes from French supermarkets so they doesn't rattle in the camper fridge.

how the **** can you tell, do you go round cutting the seals off all the bottles in the shop ?

Best stock up on Italian wines then

Unless you open your Champagne with a sabre...

Or hot tongs and a shaving brush for your port...

[img] [/img]

You can buy wine in bottles?

I care not what type of top my wine has. I buy based on "is it red" and "how strong" these two rules have yet to see me wrong, or sober, or without that black lower lip and fuzzy head the day after 🙂

I only buy wine with a cork - this is fairly east as I buy mainly French wine bought direct from producers. It's very rare to see wine with a screw top in France as the French won't buy it even on a €2.50 bottle where it may be real or an artificial cork.

It's the quality of the wine within, not the stopper that inhibits it sloshing it does.

Buy quality, quaff responsibly.

Screw top wine...imma drink piss (includes picture of tesco value boxed red, or Bear Grills, one or the other)

I figured that was going to be the contents of the post.

Pretty sure the cork growing regions are suffering because of the death of the industry 🙁 Bit of a shame really, even if a lid [i]is [/i]a better seal than a cork (and it probably is).

Bottles with a large indent (even cheap ones) tend to hold good quality wine - or so my ex taught me. Somehow, it seems to hold true 😯

or so my ex taught me.

Yup if you can get your thumb right up the punt then you'll both be very happy!

(deep punt is just a sign of an expensive bottle. And winemakers don't, generally, put crap wine in expensive bottles)

Graham has it - nowt wrong with a screwtop

interestingly, Margaux have been bottling and sampling their wines for the last 30 yrs or so to test whether the synthetic corks can be used to age the wines as well as organic, but they've still not switched so one can only assume still not as good for the top end

If your buying wine to drink your not aging it. I thought one of the moves to screw tops etc was a cork shortage? Hardly see one here and an ocean of excellent wine in screw tops.

I'm currently working part-time in a wine shop so have learned a little bit about this debate.

Screwcaps are cheaper and more reliable than cork for keeping air out of the wine. They create a better seal, they cost less per unit, and don't suffer from problems such as cork taint.

However, wine sealed with a screwcap will develop more slowly than that which has been corked (because of the lack of air getting to the wine inside the bottle) which is desirable in some situations (unoaked white wine for example) but less so in others (high tannin blends need some oxygen to develop properly).

Therefore, some wines fair well with a screwtop, while others will age quicker with a cork.

Screwcap doesn't mean cheap, as a lot of top Aussie and NZ wines come with screwcaps.

That seems a little "misleading".

For one, a screwtop gives a far larger airspace above the wine, unless you believe it's a perfect vaccum. So potentially more air space, more air, and if nothign else, a small extra area for the wine to slosh around in the bottle through the packaging, distribution and storage phase of it's shelf life, before it even gets to the boot of the consumers vehicle and thrown about a few hours before opening.

Secondly, this talk of "air", surely only a really realy poor, not fit for purpose cork is going to allow any measurable air past, expecially once you consider that same air also has that thin sheet of tightly sealed lead (or whatever metal is used these days) in the bottle top to get through as well. If a cork is going to allow air in to oxidise a product, its not worthy of being used. Fantastic vintages from 30-40-50 years ago are not "better" because "air got to the wine".

So much of the wine world is ritual, hearsay, and legend. And in the old world, terifically fearful of change. Which is why we had so much shit French wine, till the Aussies gave them what for.

Just open it - sniff it, swill it, and decide if you like it. Best not look at the price tag first, you'll only embarass yourself. Any wine you're even thinking of drinking "now" will be fine whatever seal is used. Actually, given the remote possibility of "corking" ie infection of the cork, I'd wager once the French get over themselves, there won't be a cork used on 20 years.

So much of the wine world is ritual, hearsay, and legend. And in the old world, terifically fearful of change.

We had a French friend round for dinner at the weekend and he was telling me that where is from they still do not allow women into the wine tunnels, because if they are menstuating they'll turn the wine bitter! 😯

Having gone through vineyards as a kid during the 90's while on holiday, and learnt about how the corks are changed periodically in bottles which are left for a long time, I can believe that there's some kind of exchange going on between what's inside the bottle and the outside air. Some practices in vineyards seem to be developed from experiencing/observing what happens, making me inclined to take the (inferred) word of the people doing the bottling, or the word of somebody working in a wine shop. 😉

That thin metal/foil packaging is to protect the cork and usually has a few air holes in it.

No problem with screw caps here, but when I buy wine it's normally gone within a few hours.

I thought one of the moves to screw tops etc was a cork shortage?

I've heard that, but it doesn't seem to be true. If anything, shrinking demand for cork for bottle closure threatens the viability of cork forest.

This is interesting:
"[url= http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2016/02/wine-cork-comeback/470961/ ]Much of cork’s current struggle can be attributed to one group in particular: Millennial wine drinkers, a generation that has less of an allegiance to traditional cork closures.[/url]"

given the remote possibility of "corking" ie infection of the cork,

It's not that remote. Estimates seem to vary wildly but around 5-15% of traditional closure wine is corked.

Or hot tongs and a shaving brush for your port...

Like the way he used an MSR Pocket Rocket to heat the tongs. That's definitely one for the next bivvy trip.

There's so much wrong in this thread I need a drink before I even start.

I remember a nice bit of Yorkshire banter from a young waiter in the Grassington hotel. He brought our wine and poured a small bit into a glass to taste.

"Why do waiters always do that?" I asked
"It's so you can check it's not corked sir"
"But it's in a screw top bottle"
"Well you can check it's not screwed then"

GrahamS - Member
where is from

That's a typo, but it makes sense if you say it in a comedy French accent - where 'ees from

"It's so you can check it's not corked sir"
"But it's in a screw top bottle"

As I understand it, it is technically [i]possible[/i] for screw top wine to be "corked" (as it can pick up TCA from the barrel or cellar), but it is very rare.

That's a typo, but it makes sense if you say it in a comedy French accent - where 'ees from

[img] /revision/latest?cb=20110503214221[/img]

😆

kiwijohn - Member
There's so much wrong in this thread I need a drink before I even start

STW = [b]S[/b]crew [b]T[/b]op [b]W[/b]ine

Well I never. 💡

OP's attempt at wine snobbery: A fail, I believe.

A good friend works in the industry.
She happily buy carton wine for home.
The design stops any oxidation occurring as no air gets in.
Bearing in mind she's a buyer for one of the largest importers in the UK I trust her judgement.

Corks for wines which I keep to age,

Otherwise notihng wrong with screwcaps.

But they are not infallible. I have had to send back 13 bottles with screw closures from the Wine Society because they were growing mould inside the closures. Got 18 sent back as a replacement 🙂 No problems since.

Bearing in mind she's a buyer for one of the largest importers in the UK I trust her judgement.

carton wine

I've only ever seen the Brew Crew outside the station drink that, other than teenagers who mix it with coca cola to make 'kalimotxo' (seems every culture in the world has some variation of cider and black)

I'm not a wine drinker, but the special prize goes to my dad, who was over here visiting and the owner of the apartment they stayed at left them a very expensive bottle of reserva as a welcome gift. I asked him a few days later how it was, and turns out he'd made kalimotxo with it...

Not at all - her speciality is the higher end.
As she states though - 9/10 the stuff in the boxes is exactly the same as the bottle but without the premium.
The bag inside the box just makes it easy to have a glass whenever she wants without it going off.

So Mr sasquatch... you only buy wine to lay down and keep?

Another reasonably well known expert...

"Even wine guru Hugh Johnson thinks so. His May 2015 column in Decanter magazine proclaimed that “I am faintly irritated now when I come to open a bottle of wine and find I need a corkscrew.” Gosh! The screw-cap is “incomparably better” than natural cork, he says"

Some estimates say upto 5% of naturally closed wines have cork taint. Perhaps you don't have the sophisticated palate that lets you recognise it? 😉

The bag inside the box

For one, a screwtop gives a far larger airspace above the wine, unless you believe it's a perfect vaccum. So potentially more air space, more air, and if nothign else, a small extra area for the wine to slosh around in the bottle through the packaging, distribution and storage phase of it's shelf life, before it even gets to the boot of the consumers vehicle and thrown about a few hours before opening

I don't buy any other wine than French, I've tried wines from all over the world but it's the French that make the best wine by a long long way IMO. I'm a huge fan of the Bordeaux region in particular, this vast area is where I source my Glug from.

Screwtops or not, it's whats in the bottle and how its made that counts far more.

I remember a presentation from George Fistonich at Villa Maria, who asked us to consider that screw caps came first and we had to sell the virtue of wedging a lump of wood into the top of a bottle instead of a screw cap.

The screw cap may have performed perfectly, but let's replace it with something compromised from the start instead, you know, for theatre. 1 in 10 bottles will not be the quality or taste the winemaker intended because of TCA or oxidisation through ill fitting or poor quality wood, but it'll make a great sound when it pops out...

but it's the French that make the best wine by a long long way IMO.

actually - I think what this thread shows is it is who is waiting for the wine to come out of the Bottle that counts as much as what is in it. Huge amounts of preconceptions and snobbery abound. Lots of people out there who still think that taking a cork out 30 minutes before "lets it breathe". Yep, that 2cm diameter circle interface with air will help 750mls breathe...

Uhh, there's some pretty substantial diffusion [in comparison to the time spent in the bottle with the sealing in place] going on there, shirley?

[quote=bikebouy ]it's the French that make the best wine by a long long way IMO.

Maybe. They also make some of the worst - some of which is sold at premium prices. If you're spending a lot on a bottle and know what you're doing then French wine might be the only choice, but wine from other countries more often than not is better if you're spending less than £10 a bottle (I appreciate there are some here who would consider £10 a bottle awfully cheap!)

[quote=gofasterstripes ]Uhh, there's some pretty substantial diffusion [in comparison to the time spent in the bottle with the sealing in place] going on there, shirley?

Yeah, if you compare it with something tiny, then it is huge. Not huge enough to make any real difference, but who cares?

I care, kinda.

"I drink a lotta [s]liquor [/s] wine but I don't drink piss"

A preference for cork is just nostalgia and snobbery.

It also keeps the cork oak forests going on a commercial footing. Which is nice.

aracer - Member
bikebouy » it's the French that make the best wine by a long long way IMO.
Maybe. They also make some of the worst -

Well I've drank enough of it over the years, it's my preferred taste and thats fine by me.

Its the poor quality and random ingredients and flavonoids that put me right off anything from anywhere else, Italy and Spain included in that.

Thx - devash. V interesting

(I appreciate there are some here who would consider £10 a bottle awfully cheap!)

and yet some think it expensive!!

Uhh, there's some pretty substantial diffusion [in comparison to the time spent in the bottle with the sealing in place] going on there, shirley

not a lot in 30 mins - and compared with just pouring it into a jug, or using decent sized glasses like Riedel - almost nothing - just one of those myths than won't die.

A jug?!

I see your point. I just drink out of the bottle so it makes a difference to me 😉

The debate has been raging for years. I remember reading about a blind test that was carried out with a panel of French wine experts, comparing wines from corked bottles with wines from screwcap bottles; the experts were completely unable to tell the difference.

If there are folk who still think that wine from around the workd is all bottled at source and shipped over need to read up on how wine is shipped these days...

Yep tankers and bottles for the mainstream, best to get shipped from source 😉

Real cork is for stuck up French bell whiffs who have their heads buried in the sands of ignorance.

jambalaya - Member

I only buy wine with a cork

Q.
E.
D.

😆

Twenty years a go I would only buy wine with a cork now unless it was a red I would be a bit suspicious of a cork. It is ages since I have had a corked wine and either begrudged the waste or had the awkward hassle of rejecting it (never had a row always an apology and a replacement but the process always feels awkward)

Shame really as I have some really nice corkscrews.

Attitudes towards the relative merits of wine are ENTIRELY to do with snobbery and have nothing to with factual science. See also; posh watches, overpriced automobiles, overly expensive pushbikes for non cutting edge competition use. It's ALL about personal image, and nothing to do with actual flavour/timekeeping/performance. Just wealth/'status' signalling in varying degrees.

Pretty sure the cork growing regions are suffering because of the death of the industry

My wife's from a cork growing region so I'm in favour of cork, and as pretty much all Spanish wine sold in Spain comes with a cork it's not like I have much of a choice anyway!

And yes, the sound of the corkscrew squeaking into the cork and the "plop!" when you pull it out - all part of the fun.

It's ALL about personal image, and nothing to do with actual flavour/timekeeping/performance. Just wealth/'status' signalling in varying degrees.

Rubbish - get beyond a certain price and you [i]might[/i] have a point, but the difference between a tetrabrik of Don Simon and even a 5€ bottle of wine is huge. Same with a 100€ BSO and a 500€ bike.

get beyond a certain price and you might have a point, but the difference between a tetrabrik of Don Simon and even a 5€ bottle of wine is huge.

how wine is shipped these days...

Freeze dried granules in bulk carrier ships?

Soooooo....

Plastic corks?

[quote=gofasterstripes ]Soooooo....
Plastic corks?

They don't grow on trees

Worst of both worlds really, but give you back that little ceremony for drink-now wine.

gofasterstripes - Member

Soooooo....

Plastic corks?

I will look for you, I will find, and I think you know the rest.

[img] [/img]

I was also told by an ex that a big indent for your thumb was a sign of quality.
As an aside I havent had wine for month then had a couple of glasses which made me feel quite unwell, I think I'll stay off it for a little longer.

A mate of mine used to do the Beaujolais Nouveau run when he was driving HGV's. He used to invite us over for a 'wine tasting'. The best wine money could buy was (IMO) proper nasty, & it had corks in!
Much prefer the cheapo screw top stuff from Lidl or Aldi.

Some right snobs on here but It's all a matter of taste.

esselgruntfuttock, if he was a mate, he wouldn't serve you the beaujolais!
NSF non-sweary people

esselgruntfuttock, if he was a mate, he wouldn't serve you the beaujolais!

He used to pick up from various vineyards all over France & deliver to various vintners in Britain. He had LOTS of spare wine, especially beaujolais. At the right time of year obviously.

The best wine money could buy was (IMO) proper nasty, & it had corks in!
Much prefer the cheapo screw top stuff from Lidl or Aldi.

Newly bought expensive wine with cork: probably meant to be cellared for (at least) a few years before being drunk.

Cheap wine with screw top: ready to drink now.

^^ basically what Graham says with the caveat that plenty of £30-50 NZ and Aussie wines come with a screw top. My wife was horrief when I bought 3 reds from wine society for £100 in total and they all had screw tops. We probably buy 200-300 bottles a year and the vast majority are cork sealed

[quote=jambalaya ]My wife was horrief when I bought 3 reds from wine society for £100 in total and they all had screw tops.

I'm not surprised - she probably hadn't realised she'd married such a cheapskate.

These days we can spec a screw cap with different oxygen transmission rates for ageing different wines.
Cork is dead. (to us, we use Diam for sparkling)

I bought a bottle of Rustenburg that has a screw top and it says it will improve with age up to 10 years from the bottling date (5 years from now)

These days we can spec a screw cap with different oxygen transmission rates for ageing different wines.