I guess I save 5 quid on my free prescription every 2 months so that’s a benefit I suppose.
Prescriptions in England are nearly double that. Don't look at the cost of care.
Prescriptions are nearly double that. Don’t look at the cost of care.
also Council tax is generally cheaper
water is not a separate charge.
the savings you'd make by going to live in England, wouldn't last long.
Say you work full time for £50k, you will get £50k plus £2.6 CB
Your take home will be £36K + 2.6 = £37.6kYour mate has a slightly better job which pays £60k, which loses him all the CB and gives him a takehome of £41,776. However, he can cut back to 4 days, £50k a year save 1 day a weeks child care costs and be quids in.
That doesn't say what you think it says. When the 2nd person is earning 60k they take home 41.8. When they are earning 50k they take home 37.6k so they would be 4k better off working the 5 days.
Not quite as clear as this is it? Depends where your contracted base is not where you communte to it from?
No it is based on residence, not employment location. I've not heard of a mass shift in people from Dumfires to Carlisle so I assume that the middle/high earners who pay more in Scotland are generally happy with the benefits they get either directly or as a society in return. e.g. the OP has son(s?) at University paying no fees, the teachers he works with earn slightly more than their English equivalent, different arrangements for paying for care of the elderly etc. Is it perfect, no far from it. Would I like to pay less tax, yes of course. Would I rather I paid English/Welsh rate of tax and got English outcomes? Clearly not - or as a home worker I'd have moved.
If you are on 43k with a wife and 3 kids to provide for and a mortgage to pay you will definitely not be one of the richest in society.
It is one of the things we have messed up - some other countries base tax on total household income which is potentially a far better metric of ability to pay. A couple each earning 21.5k will be far better off than a single "breadwinner" on 43k with the same outgoings. A couple each on 43k will still be paying less tax than one earner on 86k supporting a non-earning partner. If they have kids the former will be getting child benefit but the latter will not.
However if you are on 43k (well 43,665 actually) you will be paying the 1% only on the £1 above the threshold. So even at 44k you'd pay £3 a year more than a colleague south of the border. Are you moaning about £3?
What I’d rather see is reformation of Council Tax with the burden increasingly weighted towards higher value property. That’s long overdue and is something the Scottish Government could do. It avoids retrospective taxation pitfalls and is hard to avoid.
At one point their aim was to introduce a local income tax (which, assuming income is accurately measured, is a far fairer test of ability to pay) but I understand it was scuppered because Westminster would not continue to pay the current council tax benefit for those who qualify - I don't think they were looking for a penny more in total support, just that councils still got paid what they currently do.
I'm not a fan of "one-off wealth tax" ideas (it probably wouldn't hit me so its not a selfish thing). Its just not really a great policy. A far more sustainable policy would be modifying inheritance tax - close all the IHT planning tricks, and massively reduce (or even eliminate) the thresholds. There's no doubt that anything other that a trivial inheritance provides you / your children with a significant opportunity. That's great but it creates an element of luck and those from poor families are never able to access that luck so effectively locked into their social status - tax which helps the poorest and enables social mobility for the poorest would be very fair, but obviously unwelcome by those who are lucky enough to have parents (etc) who will leave them wealth.
The marginal rate of 54% tax and NI between £43662 and £50k is unfair. So I pay anything over $43662 into a pension. So rather than get 21% the SNP get nothing.
Whilst that is a short-term pain to the Scottish Government (the SNP get nothing anyway - they are a political party!) its a long term benefit because the whole point of making it tax efficient to put money in your pension is to encourage you to so because its in the country's interests for us to have well-funded pensioners in the future!
However if you are on 43k (well 43,665 actually) you will be paying the 1% only on the £1 above the threshold. So even at 44k you’d pay £3 a year more than a colleague south of the border. Are you moaning about £3?
Don’t think that’s quite right as the tax bands below that are different
Either way, I earn more than 44k, it’s well over 100 quid a month difference, which I do notice.
Still makes doesn’t from rich however when 1300 of it disappears instantly on mortgage and electricity
That doesn’t say what you think it says. When the 2nd person is earning 60k they take home 41.8. When they are earning 50k they take home 37.6k so they would be 4k better off working the 5 days.
No it means what I think it says, the 5th day at work gets you £89 in our current tax system. Which is not worth it when you consider childcare costs.
. Which is not worth it when you consider childcare costs.
Tax calculations don't (and can't) take into account other expenses. Not everyone will have childcare expenses. Maybe there is partner who doesn't work, maybe there are grandparents who provide it for free, maybe the kids are at school and don't need care. You will have more money from your pay if you work the 5 days rather than the four. Whether it is worth it is a value judgement for each individual to decide depending on their circumstances.
However if you are on 43k (well 43,665 actually) you will be paying the 1% only on the £1 above the threshold. So even at 44k you’d pay £3 a year more than a colleague south of the border. Are you moaning about £3?
No. At £44k you are £337 into the Scottish higher rate band. An Englush taxpayer would pay 20% of that. £67.
A Scottish taxpayer pays 42% £141.
On every £1k over the threshold up to £50k England £200 Scotland £420
There's so many aspects you have to add, what if it's someone working 60 hours a week with 20 hours overtime to look after their household, there's so many factors, as others say, childcare, inheritance, location, travel costs, etc, etc, etc.
Folk going 'you're in the rich club if you earn 44k or more' are just looking two dimensionally at a three dimensional problem. Raising tax at a time of record inflation and interest rate rises is just not a good thing, there will be more people squeezed due to this, so for every one saying 'this is great if spent wisely' there's potentially two worrying about another 20 quid a month disappearing out their pay packet.
I believe it will raise an extra £129 million a year.
They have just spent an extra £72 million to complete the ferries.
We need to pay for the Cairngorm funicular somehow, the £129 million should just about cover the running costs for this year.
I earn more than 44k, it’s well over 100 quid a month difference, which I do notice.
so an extra £100 a month - by my maths that's £1200 a year which is 1% of £120000, suggesting you are on a taxable income of around £165k per annum....
Still makes doesn’t from rich however when 1300 of it disappears instantly on mortgage and electricity
hmmmm...
tpbiker said
Yes I would far prefer it. I don’t have kids so the uni fees are irrelevant to me and despite paying far more tax than my English coworkers, the services in Scotland are just as shit
tpbiker previously said
If you are on 43k with a wife and 3 kids to provide for and a mortgage to pay you will definitely not be one of the richest in society.
Best you move to a Tory country mate, they appreciate entitled folk.
But before you do, let me know which services you use, the ones you tell us are "shit in Scotland" and then I can tell you how I don't want to pay for those - and you should pay more tax to cover my share.
I earn more than 44k, it’s well over 100 quid a month difference, which I do notice.
erm, I think your maths is out.
Assume a £50k income, so £6400ish income above the higher tax threshold.
Assume you make pension contributions of 5% (and let us face it, most of us on that money put more aside) £2500 annually.
You will have £3900 of income (at higher rate tax threshold) taxed at an extra 1%.
So £39 difference.
Edit: and I think I am right in saying if you up pension contributions by that amount it will have cost you nothing?
On every £1k over the threshold up to £50k England £200 Scotland £420
1% of £1000 is not £220.
If you are on 43k with a wife and 3 kids to provide for and a mortgage to pay you will definitely not be one of the richest in society.
I have been on similar for the last couple of years, plus part time working wife.
No, I am not 'rich' in my eyes, but I have a house I am paying off (more than many have, and a more valuable house/asset), I run two cars in the household (that is two more than many have), I have a pension (more than many) I have had a foreign holiday (a cheap one, but again, more than many), I have bikes, a few new clothes through the year, we have saved for a nice meal out with family tonight for a 21st birthday. I have a hell of a lot compared to even family who are bumping on minimum wage in a cold rental flat in a dodgy part of town... Even though I don't feel it, I am seriously wealthy and have options and choices that the wealth brings.
Even having a bank account puts you into the 'you have money' bracket.
1% of £1000 is not £220.
Correct.
But The bands are
Scotland: 41% over £43,600
Remainder of the UK: 40% over £50k.
So, if you earn >£50k you pay about* 21% of £6,400 (£1280) more than the remainder of the UK?
*how do all the 19% and 21% brackets in Scotland balance out?
Of course - sorry!
So, chucking things in a payslip checker:
Currently: £43k
England:
Breakdown
PAYE Deduction:£6,086NI
Deduction:£4,011.84
Employers NI:£4,714.08
Employers Cost:£47,714.08
Net Pay: £32,902.16
Scotland
PAYE Deduction:£6,242.07
NI Deduction:£4,011.84
Employers NI:£4,714.08
Employers Cost:£47,714.08
Net Pay: £32,746.09
.
At 50k
England:
PAYE Deduction:£7,486
NI Deduction:£4,851.84
Employers NI:£5,680.08
Employers Cost:£55,680.08
Net Pay:£37,662.16
Scotland £50k
Breakdown
PAYE Deduction:£8,916.29
NI Deduction:£4,851.84
Employers NI:£5,680.08
Employers Cost:£55,680.08
Net Pay: £36,231.87
So currently at £43k you are £150ish worse off in Scotland.
At £50k currently you are £1430.29 worse off.
The extra 1% will add £39 to a £50k tax bill in Scotland, so £1469.29 worse off next year.
No. At £44k you are £337 into the Scottish higher rate band. An Englush taxpayer would pay 20% of that. £67.
A Scottish taxpayer pays 42% £141.
Sorry you are quite right. The "extra" 1% that was being objected to should be measured to 44k on a 2022/23 income v's 44k on a 2023/24 income both in Scotland. That is ~ £3 a year difference. So if someone is saying they don't feel rich on 44k a year and object to the extra 1% they are objecting to paying £3 more a year.
And again - let us remember at these salary levels, Pension contributions are reducing that tax bill as well.
Now factor in Student Loans deductions...
Now factor in Student Loans deductions…
What are they? 😉
Student loan comment is a moot point, being in scotland means your fee's are covered. The vast majority of people I know still took out student loans.
How does the Scottish Government pay for further education, prescriptions etc? Genuine question. Also, how do they fund the constant run for independence? Is it all funded by supporters contributions?
Personally have no qualms about paying the extra 1% but I'd like to know that its going to education and not the relentless drive for independence, which a large percentage of the country doesn't want.
The reality is someone on £50k/yr in Scotland
losesis investing an addition 3% (£1.5k) of their income in ensuring that they are helping build a society that ensures better services and opportunities for all, leading to long term savings in costs in the crime, benefits and childrens services budgets.
Yes, I'm an idealist at times.
MOAB - I think you've hit the nail on the head here:
No, I am not ‘rich’ in my eyes, but I have a house I am paying off (more than many have, and a more valuable house/asset), I run two cars in the household (that is two more than many have), I have a pension (more than many) I have had a foreign holiday (a cheap one, but again, more than many), I have bikes, a few new clothes through the year, we have saved for a nice meal out with family tonight for a 21st birthday. I have a hell of a lot compared to even family who are bumping on minimum wage in a cold rental flat in a dodgy part of town… Even though I don’t feel it, I am seriously wealthy and have options and choices that the wealth brings.
Very few people actually think they are rich. Very few people want to pay more tax, but pretty much everyone agrees that people earning more than them should pay more tax. The reality is that 43K is not rich, but its a lot better off than many. Then of course you need to ask what sort of society would you like to live in? One like @tpbiker:
Yes I would far prefer it. I don’t have kids so the uni fees are irrelevant to me
where the idea of Uni fees only matters if you have kids? I don't get excited about uni fees for MY kids - they are from a lucky family and would get to go to uni if they were smart enough regardless of fees, and seem to want to study subjects where they will earn well enough to pay back any loans they might get. I get excited about uni fee so that the kid who is really smart but can barely afford shoes to go to school in gets the opportunity to go to uni and so that a decision of what you study is not based on your ability to recoup the earning or only the rich will study many of the social sciences etc. And of course that doesn't just apply to Uni fees but everything else where the policy (= spending) gives the least advantaged the best chance.
and despite paying far more tax than my English coworkers, the services in Scotland are just as shit
Have you actually tried both lots of services? I'm not arguing everything in Scotland is rosy, but I have family and colleagues in other parts of the UK and I'm pretty sure that our shit is not as bad as their shit for a lot of things.
Yesterday I saw someone exploding at the local council for spending money on something "...when you can't even go to A&E unless it is an actual emergency" - it seems he was more interested in moaning about the waste of money than thinking why else you'd go to A&E or if the council ran the hospitals! Unfortunately, I think social media fosters a lot of this attitude - people who are looking to find an argument and criticise a political position without actually bothering to think about what they are arguing for. Just because you don't like the party in power it doesn't mean everything they do is wrong/bad.
Sorry you are quite right. The “extra” 1% that was being objected to should be measured to 44k on a 2022/23 income v’s 44k on a 2023/24 income both in Scotland. That is ~ £3 a year difference. So if someone is saying they don’t feel rich on 44k a year and object to the extra 1% they are objecting to paying £3 more a year.
You're missing the point that the main different between an english £50k and Scottish is the threshold. Which is being held steady despite 6% average wage growth.
So a person on £44k in 2022 will earn an extra £2.6k in 2023 but lose 42% of it in Scotland (£1.1k) vs 20% in England.
Nothing about the last 15 years if SNP administration makes me feel like the extra will go to good use. See the Ferries, bottoming out every health league table, poor educational attainment etc
so an extra £100 a month – by my maths that’s £1200 a year which is 1% of £120000, suggesting you are on a taxable income of around £165k per annum….
No your maths is way off… I’m not even close to the 165k mark. Well under less than a third of that I’m afraid
tpbiker previously said
Does that say I said I had kids? Nope…
Best you move to a Tory country mate, they appreciate entitled folk.
But before you do, let me know which services you use, the ones you tell us are “shit in Scotland” and then I can tell you how I don’t want to pay for those – and you should pay more tax to cover my share.
Ah yes that’s correct, I’m entitled because I am struggling to pay for my mortgage and bills. Tbf I doubt you contribute much in the way of income tax anyways so I’m probably already covering your share..😉
where the idea of Uni fees only matters if you have kids?
You’ve take that out of context though haven’t you. It was pointed out that if I moved to England I’d have to pay for uni fees so I shouldn’t complain about paying extra tax. All I said was that would be irrelevant to me as I don’t have kids.
Typical stw, I have an issue paying even more tax when I’m already struggling to pay my bills and some clown claims I’m a Tory. I’ve been paying the upper tax band for 10 years and never complained once, despite me not requiring many of the services that i pay for. And in that time I’ve only ever voted snp or labour. I’m happy to pay my share if I can afford it, however In the current climate I can’t.
But sure.. I’m an entitled Tory😩
Edit…not sure what’s happened with the quote function there!
The SNP will just p!ss it away.
No your maths is way off… I’m not even close to the 165k mark. Well under less than a third of that I’m afraid
Ah, sorry about that. I can’t work out though how you’ll be £100 a month extra tax though.
The SNP will just p!ss it away
On higher pay for nhs staff? On free university? On free orescriotions? On dualling the A9?
Ah, sorry about that. I can’t work out though how you’ll be £100 a month extra tax though
Between 43 and 50k Scottish folks pay over twice as much tax as those in England. So basically 21% extra on that 7k, or roughly 1400 quid if my maths is correct
Ah, sorry about that. I can’t work out though how you’ll be £100 a month extra tax though.
Covered upthread. On £50k a Scottish taxpayer pays around £1400 a year more income tax than an English taxpayer. More than £100 a month.
On free university?
So that Scottish students struggle to get a place in Scottish Universities because so many places are allocated to foreign students?
Or that a once excellent education system is now on it's knees?
SNP policy is all mouth and no trousers.
Covered upthread. On £50k a Scottish taxpayer pays around £1400 a year more income tax than an English taxpayer. More than £100 a month.
Ah, thanks, I misread it as the poster was going to see a personal tax increase of £100 a month in his own salary as a result of the changes.
where the idea of Uni fees only matters if you have kids? I don’t get excited about uni fees for MY kids – they are from a lucky family and would get to go to uni if they were smart enough regardless of fees, and seem to want to study subjects where they will earn well enough to pay back any loans they might get. I get excited about uni fee so that the kid who is really smart but can barely afford shoes to go to school in gets the opportunity to go to uni and so that a decision of what you study is not based on your ability to recoup the earning or only the rich will study many of the social sciences etc.
England has a higher rate of disadvantaged children attending University.
So that Scottish students struggle to get a place in Scottish Universities because so many places are allocated to foreign students?
That's the quid pro quo of no fees, the number of courses open to an English resident in clearing at Scottish Universities is far greater than those available to Scottish residents.
Unbuilt ferries.
Half billion deals with dodgy industrialists.
A9 still not dualled as promised completion time approaches. Promised in 2012. Would be complete by 2025. Only 11 miles of 70 completed.
https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/single-carriageway-a9-death-down-28233075
the number of courses open to an English resident in clearing at Scottish Universities is far greater than those available to Scottish residents
That’s an interesting fact… where did you glean it from? And can the similar sources tell us what happens for English/Scottish residents when it comes to clearing at English Universities?
The Spectator did an experiment a few years ago
I believe both pay fees to English Universities so they will be treated the same.
Did they not look at English Universities to compare? Do those without capped fees (eg USA students) have more to pick from in clearing than English students?
Did they not look at English Universities to compare? Do those without capped fees (eg USA students) have more to pick from in clearing than English students?
What do you think?
As I said on the other thread:
If my tax was actually producing tangible results then I’d be delighted however we have trains that don’t run, an NHS that only got their pay rise, eventually, as a show of oneupmanship and teachers still aren’t getting one. The country is a bag of shite and people are naturally tired of being asked to give and seeing nothing in return except excuses. We keep hearing that any tax raises affects Barnett so why bother other than * it into those that are actually earning? Oh, that’s right, to pay for those selfish * in the NHS rather than Ferguson Marine.
I’m all for progressive taxation but not when we’re not seeing anything in return.
The rUK system is barely any different – and you forget those with Student Loans are paying another 9% already, but not in Scotland.
Who in Scotland isn't paying back their loan? Or are you confusing free tuition with grants? Students still take loans in Scotland to pay for everything else.
Oh and everyone going on about free care just remember, you get what you pay for. I've heard enough horror stories to know I'd book a one way ticket to Geneva before entering a lot of homes.
Oh and everyone going on about free care just remember, you get what you pay for. I’ve heard enough horror stories to know I’d book a one way ticket to Geneva before entering a lot of homes.
Let’s hope when it comes to it you are compos mentis enough to make that decision and fit enough to make the journey.
Let’s hope when it comes to it you are compos mentis enough to make that decision and fit enough to make the journey.
You and me both.
