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IIRC the threshold for representation is around 4 - 5 % of the vote on the list. Greens take 8-9% of the vote. If alba takes half the green votes and none of the SNP votes then none will get any representation from the list allowing tories and labour more MSPs
If alba takes half the green votes and none of the SNP votes then none will get any representation from the list allowing tories and labour more MSPs
I think you are attributing too much political sophistication to Mr Salmonds loyal fans / blind followers... I doubt they were Green voters on the list, too subtle for people who vote on personality rather than policy.
There won’t be many who are aghast at Nicola but think Alex is a better plan. They may not vote at all (a serious risk since it’s almost inevitable that there will be an SNP government regardless).
If I was Ross or Sarawar I’d be worried - it’s once again taken the conversation away from their agenda to the Nicola Alex show...
The interesting question would be - if Alex himself was their only elected MSP and SNP or SNP/Greens were one vote short would they work together on anything other than indyref?
No - and they should not. If Salmond gets into holyrood and I really hope he does not he should be ostracised and cold shouldered. Leave him with the choice to vote it down or not but do a deal with him? No. It would be a betrayal of women everywhere
I’m aware Salmond is marmite, but bear in mind the SNP has shed something like 50,000 members in the last few years because of unhappiness about the unsavoury and undemocratic goings on within the party. Not to mention the smell of financial malfeasance with half the audit committee resigning recently because they are not allowed to see the books.
do you KNOW that’s WHY the all / mostly left? My assumption was that other a few vocal people most had realised that being a party member costs you money and gains you little - and were first time members quitting after 1-2 yrs. if they were mostly 10+ yr members then I’ll believe you.
Guess where those voters will go.
Im not sure anyone leaving the snp on a “moral high ground” argument is going to leap to the handsy egotist. That would be like leaving the Tories because you think their policies on immigration were too racist and voting UKIP!
It would be a betrayal of women everywhere
found not guilty
Poly - there is this group that has the belief that Sturgeon and co are not interested in independence but are happier being a "colonial administration" and they will follow Salmond
Its batshit conspiracy theories IMO but its there is certainly a group that thinks this
i suspect its got a large overlap with people who do not understand the seriousness and significance of Salmonds admitted behaviour let alone what he denies or are prepared to overlook this behaviour because he is their hero even if he has feet of clay
found not guilty
Irrelevant - the behavior he has admitted to is enough. If I as a lowly staff nurse had done what he has admitted to I would have been sacked for gross misconduct
He's living in fantasy land, nobody is going to vote for him.
tjagain
there is this group that has the belief that Sturgeon and co are not interested in independence but are happier being a “colonial administration” and they will follow Salmond
It is unhappiness at how democracy has been removed from the internal structure of the SNP, members no longer get a voice.
It is unhappiness at the concentration on minority issues, however worthy, at the expense of independence.
It is unhappiness on the attack on women's rights represented by the GRA (I'll take Joanne Cherry's word on that any day).
It's unhappiness at the totalitarian aspects of the Hate Crime Bill.
And above all it's unhappiness at nothing being done about all the ignored open goals left by Westminster.
The SNP used to be a broad church, now it's only for a subset of the independence movement.
That has left the field wide open for an alternative independence party, and guess what, one has sprung up.
It may be false news but there could already be over 10,000 new members. Apparently their server crashed from overload. Not bad in the first 12 hours of announcing its existence.
Even 1,000 would be good in that time span, and it's definitely well beyond that.
It's got the Tories shitting themselves. They're trying to resurrect the Better Together alliance. It remains to be seen whether Labour and the LibDems want to participate in that suicide pact again.
As I said, life is a bit more interesting.
epicyclo
do you believe Salmonds admitted behaviour to be acceptable? Not the allegations he denies but the behaviour he has admitted to?
poah
Free Member
It would be a betrayal of women everywherefound not guilty
Posted 5 hours ago
FFS Try doing what he admitted to in your job and see what happens.
You, Scotroutes and Salmond make a lovely trio.
There is a real risk that the Alba party splits the independence vote and let’s more pro union MSPs get elected. This would seriously harm the independence movement. It shows Salmond is more interested in his own career than independence. His ego is massive.
Indyref1 was all about trying to push those on the fence to vote for independence, but there was too any unanswered questions and it led to it failing.
Indyref2 is now at risk from this in-fighting, those loyal to the SNP and independence will again vote yes, no matter what, but it's the ones who have changed their mind, or could change their minds that are now looking at this circus.
As for the MSPs, it's all a bit weird, could push other parties down the list, but i fear it'll just start many fights between SNP/Alba because lets be honest, those moving to represent Alba will be ex SNP with inside knowledge!
Looking around social media on a few pro independence sites the lack of support for Salmond is obvious and the understanding that voting for his party will damage the independence cause by splitting the vote is clear. there were a lot of - " I used to respect him but no longer do"
Its early days and a long way to go but that gives me hope that the scots will not be taken in by him and understand that voting for ALBA will lead to more unionist MPS
the idea that a party led by Salmond will be more left wing and less centralising is absurd given that Salmond was always right of centre and a control freak.
Epicyclo - you do realise that the GRA has not been passed by parliament precisely because of the issues raised by the likes of Cherry?
Alba now has more members than the LibDems and is aiming to overtake the Labour and Tory parties.
There have been several high profile defections from the SNP. It now has 2 Westminster MPs as well.
Independence matters more than any other issue to the members.
The SNP trollbots flinging abuse about unacceptable behaviour seem to be quietening down as exSNP supporters come forward alleging that also applies to Sturgeon and her very particular appetites. She apparently has recently taken out 2 super injunctions out muzzling something or other, we can only wonder why and what for.
There may be a few MSPs in other parties hoping the Me Too doesn't spread to them as well.
However, TJ, if you are worried about women's attitudes to Alba, you may be interested to know that the SNP Equalities Convener and the SNP Women’s Convener, Lynne Anderson has joined Alba and will be a candidate, and that nearly half the candidates are female.
Epicyclo - its a simple question - do you think Salmonds admitted behaviour is acceptable?
If there was any real truth in these rumours about Sturgeon do you not think someone would have used parliamentary privilege in Westminster to expose them
the idea that Sturgeon does not want independence is absurd.
Those Ex SNP are those who are careerists whos career is faltering in the SNP>
Some very dubious people amongst them.
Alba is putting moderates off even voting YES in an independence referendum The idea of Salmond and his coterie having any say over the country is abhorrent to many
Epicyclo – its a simple question – do you think Salmonds admitted behaviour is acceptable?
Its a simple yes or no answer.
She apparently has recently taken out 2 super injunctions out muzzling something or other, we can only wonder why and what for.
BS or any substance to this?
Those Ex SNP are those who are careerists whos career is faltering in the SNP>
Some very dubious people amongst them.
Alba is putting moderates off even voting YES in an independence referendum The idea of Salmond and his coterie having any say over the country is abhorrent to many
Same people have had a say in the SNP in Westminster and Holyrood over the years and would still if Alba hadn't been born...
Their political careers have been built in the SNP. Are they only unacceptable now they have split?
Sheridan? Alex Arther?
and those who have left the SNP to join Salmond have shown by their actions to be unfit for office. simple as that.
Were they unfit before? Perhaps but by doing this they have proved it.
Irrelevant – the behavior he has admitted to is enough. If I as a lowly staff nurse had done what he has admitted to I would have been sacked for gross misconduct
I suspect that your expectations should you behave as he has admitted to are correct, he got away with it as many do by being in a position of power. Plenty of organisations compromise out the more junior member of staff to keep the one at the top. We should have higher expectations of those in power but the reality is that we get less than we should
Latest polling puts SNP/Green/Alba parties with a projected 29 seat majority in Holyrood. Tories now using the Baroness as the face of their campaign as DRoss is so useless.
Wonder how Westminster is going to spin this?
The will use Salmond as dirt to throw at the SNP, they will accuse Salmond of gaming the system, they will point to internal arguments within the independence movement as showing they are unfit to run the country, they will point out Salmond is unfit to be an MSP, they will use Sturgeons comments to attack Salmond and they will pretend " once in a lifetime opportunity" is a legally binding declaration
Latest polling puts SNP/Green/Alba parties with a projected 29 seat majority in Holyrood.
Same polling is showing the indefatigable George Galloway as a MSP
Tories now using the Baroness as the face of their campaign as DRoss is so useless.
Why wouldn't you use one of the best political communicators in UK politics?
Wonder how Westminster is going to spin this?
What do you mean by Westminster? The three main parties standing candidates? Some amphorus conspiracy? Scots living outwith Scotland? Mainstream media?
What do you mean by Westminster?
pretty simple. the unionist parties based at Westminster ie just what it says.
Hmmm 30 seat Pro indy majority (10 seat majority for the snp)!?!
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1379752880006180867?s=19
Ross approval rating has plummeted, too
Sarwar doing well
And Alex who?
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1379770900350926850?s=19
pretty simple. the unionist parties based at Westminster
Are they an amphorus blob, do they conspire to do Scotland down in darkened smoke filled MSTeams/Zoom meetings
ie just what it says
Which it clearly doesn't it's a continuation of the SNP propaganda and othering. It's the evil empire which the "civic" nationalism of the SNP fights against
Anyone would think that Scots didn't go there, didn't lead governments and hold the high offices of state there.
Are they an amphorus blob
Err Yes
do they conspire to do Scotland down in darkened smoke filled MSTeams/Zoom meetings
No they do govern make laws for Scotland though without any basis of electoral support in Scotland unless you amalgamate all their support together into an "amorphous blob"
Ross approval rating has plummeted, too
Good, the Sturgeon inquiry made him look like an opportunistic weasel.
The entirety of his political ambition is to stop the SNP getting a majority and it looks like that will fail too.
They offer nothing beyond constantly bleating "SNP Baaaddd" and probably mention independence more than any other party.
I hope he and the BritNat rabble that support him get friction burns from dry humping the Union Jack
Are they an amphorus blob, do they conspire to do Scotland down in darkened smoke filled MSTeams/Zoom meetings
Labour will be wary, they got burned by supporting Indy last time
The Tories meanwhile, I'm not so sure they have a plan, they banked it all on Andrew Neil taking down Sturgeon, beyond that the seem to be all about the Frost confrontational approach, which I think will only backfire.
At least Gove seemed to get it, his sidelining didn't bode well for the union
No they do govern make laws for Scotland though without any basis of electoral support in Scotland
They make UK laws after winning a UK election. Most of the day to day stuff in Scotland is done here. Education, health, police, fire, local govt etc. After 14 years in power most day to day problems are owned by the SNP.
It's a pretty dire state of affairs really when there is no credible repose to the SNP.
Kimbers If Labour supported independence last time they did a good job of disguising it.
IRC Yes much of the day to day stuff was done by the SNP and they should be held accountable for that. There's some extenuating factors though. They have very limited tax raising power and economic policy is determined at Westminster. Health and social care in particular will never be addressed by nhs funding alone. Food standards ,working time, housing stock etc all have major impacts on that. Thanks to the Internal Market Bill Westminster can now act on those issues as it also can on Education without seeking the consent of the Scottish Parliament.
Kimbers If Labour supported independence last time they did a good job of disguising it.
Sorry meant to say opposing indy!
Sorry meant to say opposing indy!
I knew that but never could resist the obvious joke.
Alba taking seats from Tyne Tories?
https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1380090272563007490?s=19
We live in what is supposedly an SNP/Tory marginal, but you wouldn't know it. We get literature through the post from the tories almost every day. It doesn't seem to say much other than vote for us to stop another referendum, but it is relentless. We've had stuff from labour about once a week, the lib dems a bit less often and even one from a bunch called the Scottish Family Party. But I don't think we've had a single thing from the SNP yet.
Galloway is an absolute throbber.
He's been called out before for his flip flopping on political issues and these days he's nothing more than a shallow opportunist.
Suggesting the BBC Scotland (or the media in general) is in the pocket of Holyrood is certainly a unique take.
. It doesn’t seem to say much other than vote for us to stop another referendum,
I'm not sure the Scots Tories have thought this line of attack through
If SNP do win them theyre on record promising a 2nd ref 😉
https://twitter.com/ScotTories/status/1380128768451301376?s=19
If all that's needed to stop IndyRef 2 is a refusal by the UK PM, why campaign against it at all?
Suggesting the BBC Scotland (or the media in general) is in the pocket of Holyrood is certainly a unique take.
Not really, plenty of people seem to think the SNP get an easy ride on devolved issues as many of the quangos, third sector and pressure groups are dependent on largesse from Holyrood.
Most recent example is the SEPA hack, despite the (minimal) headlines Scottish Gov has offered no help, banned work arounds and essentially left them to flounder. I was told a week ago Covid policy means letters are piling up unopened at the offices, no email system, no calls getting answered. Permits are automatically granted after a time limit so anything goes at the moment if you put your paperwork in.
If it happened in England or Wales there would be uproar, I can visualise George Monbiot raging away.
Galloway is an absolute throbber.
An indefatigable one at that
At least he's one of "the people of Scotland" not one of those whining ex pats
On what do you base the assertion that SG has offered SEPA no help?
those whining ex pats
You called? 🧐😉
On what do you base the assertion that SG has offered SEPA no help?
Bump, as I’m curious too.
On what do you base the assertion that SG has offered SEPA no help?
The discussions a person I know well has had with them regarding consents for numerous activities. He'd gone to the offices and seen the pile of mail. Email addresses aren't working and they aren't allowed to use non sepa email so no-ones emails are getting read. Switchboard not working (uses the outlook addresses) so he had to contact a specialist via someone who had his number from a previous project. Officer can't give him anything in writing. Default is to submit in writing (joins the pile) and it's automatically accepted after a standard period. He was told by the officer that SG has said SEPA need to fix this themselves. I believe they have prioritised the flood team which now has some capability. Hack happened before Christmas it's now mid April. Volume of data lost/ inaccessible still being downplayed only news getting out are standard press releases and nobody is asking awkward questions Covid is providing a useful cover
Discussion was a little over a week ago so things may have progressed but no relevant updates found in my Google search
Relevant questions are, how much money have SG given SEPA for disaster recovery since the hack, what resources have been provided by SG and the spend to date, how many other SG agencies have out of date SAP systems (what I understand to be the route in),
If I'm wrong then I'm a random on the internet who is wrong, if I'm even close to being right Scotland has a massive environmental protection issue which is 4 months old and counting and nobody is asking SG what they are doing about it. I hope I'm wrong.
I see that Johnson is once again showing that hes the best campaigner the SNP have
the timing of this seems daft even by his standards
how long will the case take to go to get a judgement, before or after election?
https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/1381636039392034816
actually the more I think about it, this is EXACTLY the reaction the SNP hoped the government would take
this is EXACTLY the reaction the SNP hoped the government would take
Probably why it was drafted in a way that would trigger this referral to the Supreme Court. Note it's a referral to the senior court of the land to determine whether it's legal or not. I seem to recall that works both ways as the conservative UK government has found out recently.
As usual it's the Scexit grievance politics to the fore rather than the merits of the issue.
As usual it’s the Scexit grievance politics to the fore rather than the merits of the issue.
Because apart from an anti-referendum stance the Tories are offering what? The opportunity to 'share' the benefits of Westminster corruption and lies?
As usual it’s the Scexit grievance politics to the fore rather than the merits of the issue
While the children's rights issues gets all the coverage, I studied its more about reversing the Westminster power grab in the internal market bill, why on earth the Tories think that isn't going to boost the indy movement is beyond me.
The UK government has a history of challenging Welsh legislation as well, it often loses but that hasn't stopped it.
The UK government has a history of challenging Welsh legislation as well, it often loses but that hasn’t stopped it.
Looks like a functioning system then with checks and balances
Looks like a functioning system then with checks and balances
Or a waste of taxpayers money with both governments paying counsel to argue it in the courts (especially since the UK has already ratified both charters - as I understand it this would just make it a matter of Scots law rather than Scots having to go to the English courts?). Neither bill was rushed through - so you'd kind of assume that the UK gov would have highlighted a concern (perhaps they did and it just didn't attract media attention), you'd certainly have thought that if a concern was known the "unionist" parties would have been opposing it at Holyrood rather than nodding it through...
And didn't the Scottish Tories already vote it they anyway?
And didn’t the Scottish Tories already vote it they anyway?
Which is why it's likely to be a technical issue only spotted by the UK constitutional lawyers after it's reviewed before enactment.
But don't let that stop the Scexit grievance bus
Looks like a functioning system then with checks and balances
You could say that but you could also say it's the power hungry UK govt diminishing the role of the devolved administrations. It's not just the EU they want to "take back control" from you know.
Latest polling shows SNP on for a slim majority. Labour to come a poor second, tories to collapse, greens to increase representation, lib dems to remain a minor party and alba to get no seats
Salmand is also less popular than Johnson
good to see that the scots electorate has some sense and good to see Salmond is unlikely to get a seat. It will be a sad day for Scotland if he gets in.
I has a question thats more of a niggle.
The Scottish tories are devolved to their English counterparts, so what happens to them if Scotland gains independence ?.
Does this mean that arm needs to be disbanded 😕 The Tories are an English party, so how can they exist in an Independent Scotland 😕
Scottish tories are less integrated than labour to the UK party by my understanding
iScotland would see a realignment in Scottish politics - at least one if not two right wing groups - there is a significant number of hunting shootin fishing rural conservatives and a few hard right brexiteers
I would expect to see a small hard left grouping, a large centre left grouping ( mainly the left of the SNP and much of labour) a smallish lib dem party. a rural based centre right party ( left of tories plus right of SNP) and a small hard right group ( the rest of the tories and brexiteers) Greens will continue with a decent representation but really are outside of right / left
Yeah polling for indy/SNP is down from its peak a few months ago
Sturgeon facing tough questions about EU membership and border with England as well
Its tight enough that even a pro indy majority isn't a dead cert and SNP will likely have to rely on greens.
Salmond case & vaccine bounce helping No campaign.
Johnson remains Sturgeons biggest asset though, the latest sleaze & Cummings shenanegans surely helping.
Sarwar doing a good job whilst Ross & Co look worse than ever
And Alex who?
pro indy majority is almost certain. SNP majority is tight but the greens will be plenty to get the majority
Yes just need to send my postal vote off. I voted yes at the last IRef and still feel the same. SNP for the constituency seat not sure about the list seat. If I vote SNP will it be wasted am I better going green?
No way would I vote for Salmond so Alba is out.
aberdeenlune - depends on where you live. Borders and highland I think 2nd vote snp is not wasted as they might pick up list seats - other areas perhaps green is a better bet.
I am not certain about that and I am sure there is good info out on the net about this.
Borders is SNP 1 & 2.
Just finished my homework on my region the north east. Good site to look at Ballot Box Scotland.
Up for grabs 10 constituency seats and 7 list seats. In 2016 SNP won 9 out of 10 constituencies. Cons got 1.
SNP won 44% of the list votes but were awarded no list seats. Cons got 28% of the vote and were awarded 4 of the 7 list seats.
Greens got 4.9% of the list vote narrowly missing out on a list seat to the Lib Dem’s who polled 6%.
So SNP constituency green list for me.
One of the interesting consequences of the list vote system is the way it gives fringe parties a chance, admittedly a small one, of getting a seat.
As a result you get a mad assortment of loonballs and zoomers on the ballot.
My two favourites are probably the "Abolish Holyrood Party", who presumably will just vanish in a puff of logic if they get elected.
And the Scottish We Don't Like Gays Family Party
I believe D and G would be another area where SNP 1 and 2 can work out as well, the whole south of Scotland being one region on the list vote.
This is what I have seen as the best way to get a pro independence majority
Highlands & Islands Both Votes SNP
Mid Scotland & Fife SNP 1 Green2
South Scotland Both Votes SNP
Glasgow SNP 1 Green 2
West SNP 1 Green 2
North East SNP 1 Green 2
Central SNP 1 Green 2
Edinburgh SNP 1 Green 2
I am highly amused by the piece in todays grauniad "Trident could be forced overseas or halted if Scotland gains independence" Its from a 2014 report. Why print it now? I believe most scots would consider this a good thing anyway.
The various sites forming the Clyde Submarine Base would be logistically challenging and incredibly expensive to relocate down south. Often wonder how much this figures in Westminster's continued support of this glorious union of equals with us verminous Scots.
Me and Mrs DB have cast our postal ballots...
logistically challenging and incredibly expensive to relocate down south
Notwithstanding that there are few places south of the border seismically stable enough to permit the loading of nuclear weapons.
Many RN people who get based there loathe it because it's such a rubbish place for their families to live and work.
I have read that there are suitable places but too close to big towns. *rolls eyes*
the bombs are not stored or loaded in Scotland now I thought - all in the US and our subs go over there to load them
I am highly amused by the piece in todays grauniad “Trident could be forced overseas or halted if Scotland gains independence” Its from a 2014 report. Why print it now? I believe most scots would consider this a good thing anyway.
I think you answer your own question
I am highly amused by the piece in todays grauniad “Trident could be forced overseas or halted if Scotland gains independence” Its from a 2014 report. Why print it now?
I think you are falling for fake news/conspiracy nonsense - it appears to be dated April 2021 to my eyes
My daughter rushed in from school today very excited after seeing a famous politician doing media in our town. I asked her who it was. Absolute honest answer from her “the fat bald one, you know, the rapey one.”
Ah - I misread it - the guy writing it left the admiralty in 2014 not wrote the report then
tjagain
Full Member
I am highly amused by the piece in todays grauniad “Trident could be forced overseas or halted if Scotland gains independence” Its from a 2014 report. Why print it now? I believe most scots would consider this a good thing anyway.
I don't think most scots give a hoot about trident tbh. 😆 I'd rent out the land and sea access, job jobbied.