and theres plenty of equivalence between VDLs vaccine failures & the PPE, care homes, Test & trace, school opening/closing, 100,000+ death toll thanks to delaying & dithering over lockdown…..
You know these are all devolved matters leading to the terrible death toll. The nuances between the devolved administrations and English policy has not really seen any significant divergence in outcomes. The real issue is a UK wide one. No one is significantly outperforming others, if they were we would be hearing about it.
chucking out arbitrary timescales makes no sense
I'm taking 25years as a generation, if you want to define it differently for Scotland please fill your boots
no parliament can bind the next one
there was no legislation setting out the mythical generational rule of referendums, even if there was it could be overturned
and it came from the same people who brought you this
big_n_daft
Free Member
and theres plenty of equivalence between VDLs vaccine failures & the PPE, care homes, Test & trace, school opening/closing, 100,000+ death toll thanks to delaying & dithering over lockdown…..You know these are all devolved matters leading to the terrible death toll. The nuances between the devolved administrations and English policy has not really seen any significant divergence in outcomes. The real issue is a UK wide one. No one is significantly outperforming others, if they were we would be hearing about it.
tbh a total deaths are about 30% less per 1M than the the UK number and cases about 40% less, that is a significant difference. Particularly when Scotland has an older and more vulnerable population.
Still not good mind you, but those extra powers have made a significant difference.
big_n_daft
Free Member
chucking out arbitrary timescales makes no senseI’m taking 25years as a generation, if you want to define it differently for Scotland please fill your boots
tbh, if you are looking for precedents, you should at least base it on something a bit more solid than an off hand comment made in the emotion of the moment. 79, 97, 14 would put it somewhere around. 31/32ish. 😆 ie 17/18 years. saying 25 years from now is ridiculous.
Which I think is mental from your side tbh, cause time ain't going to help you.
no parliament can bind the next one
there was no legislation setting out the generational rule of referendums, even if there was it could be overturned
And?
Post Brexit the appetite for referendums is significantly diminished.
Plenty of countries place high hurdles for significant constitutional change. "Settled will" for a significant permanent change needs to be more than 50%+1. That would have killed Brexit.
big_n_daft
Free MemberPost Brexit the appetite for referendums is significantly diminished.
not in scotland if you look at the polls.
Plenty of countries place high hurdles for significant constitutional change. “Settled will” for a significant permanent change needs to be more than 50%+1. That would have killed Brexit.
tbh, I don't necessarily disagree with this, but the cat is out the bag on the 50+1 and it's no going back in.
you should at least base it on something a bit more solid than an off hand comment made in the emotion of the moment. 79, 97, 14 would put it somewhere around. 31/32ish. 😆 ie 17/18 years. saying 25 years from now is ridiculous.
Good job I'm some random person on the internet not in any position of power. I'd argue it was a bit more solid than "transitional pound" into "virtually instant" EU membership though and is a happy mid point between the two previous referendum periods
Lets put it to the test then and find out which side has the more solid arguments this time round? 😆 What ye scared of?
The key will be pro indy parties getting a majority in May
Which is hy no means a sure thing
And I dunt necessarily disagree about some sort of supermajority being required, but again there is no legislation for that and if the Tories tried to impose one after brexit the resentment at their hypocrisy could backfire hugely.
Tories may well get a feelgood bounce from vaccine rollout & SNP will want their dirty laundry out & forgotten by then too.
Effects of brexit on fishing communities could nail it though- totemic as it is (see brexit)
tbh a total deaths are about 30% less per 1M than the the UK number and cases about 40% less, that is a significant difference. Particularly when Scotland has an older and more vulnerable population.
I'd wait for the analysis to be done, England has significant BAME communities that live in multigenerational households with very low incomes. Scotland has a very dispersed population outside the central belt. Cases are very low in the SW of England for example and terrible in many of our cities. But if Scotland did it better we need to learn the lessons once we can dig into the data properly rather than focusing on headline numbers without context
My view is that the differences in approach by the devolved administrations is a good thing. We are all learning, therefore trying different things, the important thing is to take the politics out of it and to learn from each other.
Lets put it to the test then and find out which side has the more solid arguments this time round? 😆 What ye scared of?
You aren't getting Brexit flashbacks writing that????
Are you related to David Cameron?
But if Scotland did it better we need to learn the lessons once we can dig into the data properly rather than focusing on headline numbers without context
The covid bounce? Sturgeon has seen is less about what she's done, but how she's gone about it, the endless lies about testing, PPE, Cummings etc from Westminster, coupled with Johnson's dithering on lockdowns, school u-turns etc all eroded public confidence and compliance in a way that Sturgeon avoided (mostly)
big_n_daft
Free Member
tbh a total deaths are about 30% less per 1M than the the UK number and cases about 40% less, that is a significant difference. Particularly when Scotland has an older and more vulnerable population.I’d wait for the analysis to be done, England has significant BAME communities that live in multigenerational households with very low incomes. Scotland has a very dispersed population outside the central belt. Cases are very low in the SW of England for example and terrible in many of our cities. But if Scotland did it better we need to learn the lessons once we can dig into the data properly rather than focusing on headline numbers without context
My view is that the differences in approach by the devolved administrations is a good thing. We are all learning, therefore trying different things, the important thing is to take the politics out of it and to learn from each other.
England has probably got a bigger rural population than scotland tbh percentage wise. Most of us live in or very near cities and towns of the central belt and up the east, up here.
Although everyone is allowed an opinion. Theres a lot of , at best, tenuous shite today.
England has probably got a bigger rural population than Scotland tbh percentage wise. Most of us live in or very near cities and towns of the central belt and up the east, up here.
True - but the density of population, plus multigenerational families (especially in BAME communities) for inner cities in England is higher and the sheer number of people is an order higher. Neither the UK Government or the Scottish Government have anything to be proud of in the way that they have managed the pandemic. But trying to say one has handled it better than the other is almost impossible unless you you do a detailed analysis. This hasn't been done yet and probably take a few years to do.
It is important that it is done, so we can work out if the approach from the Scottish Government was 'better' or just different.
So you’ll agree that Shamima Begum is defiantly British then?
Yup, and groomed at age 15. You'll accept this yeah ?, or do you believe in your heart of hearts that young teenagers groomed by older men are fully to blame for whatever happens to them 😕
You also have to remember in the analysis of the Scottish governments performance that they wanted to do more earlier but did not have the power to do so. No ability to borrow means they could not furlough except when westminster said, neither could they close the borders to Scotland as that is also a westminster power.
So considering they were hamstrung by that and the lower - but still awful deth rate I would given them a B compared to Westminsters D
When Johnson was running round catching covid by shaking peoples hands who were positive Sturgeon had already wanted to go into lockdown but could not.
Another aspect of how Scotland has handled it VS Westminster has been communication
And Sturgeon has been able to sound far more reassuring & on top of things than Johnson & co throughout
The good will Johnson blew up with cummings being a prime example
Yup - anecdotaly compliance has been better up here despite more severe restictions
Interesting
Monica lennon ( candidate to lead labour in Scotland) is open to a second referendum
Presumably that means she will be cast out for Heresy
I'm not convinced she was ever in with a realistic chance of the post against the son of millionaire Chaudhry Mohammad Sarwar.
scotroutes
It’s easier to hide lack of progress with a tunnel.
I think you underestimate Boris's sagacity.
He's already aware that the explosives for the necessary blasting are already in place in the Beaufort Dyke.
A million tons, I read somewhere.
I'm not sure of the purpose of the 25,000 or so tons of mustard and phosgene munitions though. Perhaps to finish off the fishing industry?
With his duties reduced, Gove is expected to step up work strengthening the ties between the countries of the United Kingdom as head of the Cabinet Office “union unit” in the run-up to elections in May, the Guardian understands. “There will be more focus on it,” one No 10 source said.
Johnson himself holds the position of minister for the union but had previously been urged to create a dedicated role to respond to growing support for Scottish independence as well as tensions in Northern Ireland.
Another gift for NS from Boris because Gove telling the Scots we are better in the Union will go down well (odious little -----)
🙂
Another gift for NS from Boris because Gove telling the Scots we are better in the Union will go down well (odious little —–)
The thought process is probably about having a Scotsman living and working in England campaigning for the Union to offset all those Englishmen living and working in Scotland campaigning for iS
As for Gove's personal qualities he has his fans and his detractors. I'm sure they are all put aside on Burn's night.
Johnson himself holds the position of minister for the union but had previously been urged to create a dedicated role growing support for Scottish independence as well as tensions in Northern Ireland.
FIFY
I’m sure they are all put aside on Burn’s night.
Absolutely.
<you have seen the Wicker Man, right?>
Dont you ever get tired of trolling and trying to wind me up with snide references BIg and Daft? You really do look foolish you know. Still - it gives me someone to laugh at which is not to be sneezed at in these times
It's OK, it's all in hand as knowledge of Scotland only discretionary for job in Gove's 'Union Unit' in Whitehall:
That'll suit the mandarins of Whitehall fine who in my experience tend to go a bit funny when they venture further north than the midlands.
That is just the most westminster "unionist" thing ever isn't it.
Interesting on Lewis's departure
There's a certain element of Leavers that would be quite happy for Scotland to leave the UK ( any comments session on the BBC quickly descends into attacks on Sturgeon & wishes for Scotland to go)
I wonder if Lewis was in that camp or just clashed with the Allegra Stratton/Spectator PR op being run from No.10
So the Strurgeon/Salmond thing has legs
Im not convinced it will dent the SNPs vote that much, by May it will be chip paper?
meanwhile, Im not sure the tories in scotland quite get how this indy thing works
meanwhile in No.10 I think they may be realising that just slapping down a 2nd ref is counter productive
Salmond has lost the plot IMO
His ego is taking him to places he really should not be going. His admitted behaviour during the trial was abhorrent. I think his issue is he is such a dinosaur that he does not understand the effect of a big powerful ( both physical and politically) man pressuring women.
Yes his accusers overegged the pudding and again IMO built up the accusations to criminal when they may not have been but the idea that the whole thing was simply a conspiracy against him is pure paranoia
I think it will cause a loss of votes but I do not think Salmond will get the support from the electorate that he thinks he will
Salmond really is an odious toad.
met him once at the airport when he was the FM. Really did not like being in his company, I really felt uncomfortable about his body language and his leering at women in the group.
Just a media frenzy created by the Tories / Unionists because they don’t actually have any policies to address the electorate because they know that Boris, Gove etc are pretty toxic. The whole thing will fizzle out with no / minimum consequences.
Dovebiker - I am not so sure about that. There would seem to be various factions infighting / power stuggling over a variety of issues and some of those groups are using the Salmond situation to exert leverage
I have issues over some Scottish people believing that Scotland shouldn't be a country. Just can't fathom it. Especially with the argument that the UK should be a country in its own right, and not subject to the whims of the EU.
It's probably better for the 4 nations to be 4 nations.
Dynati
there are some people like my family that have connections both sides of the boarder. I myself had big doubts about abandoning my friends in the north of England to the tender mercies of the tories ( but no longer)
The other main strand I have seen is forces people. they felt it a betrayal of those they had fought alongside.
right or wrong these views have some validity to the people expressing them
Dynati
Hyphenated please lol.
Heavens sake, nobody is suggesting we rebuild Hadrian's wall and man it with machine guns every 50m. Just the Scotland be what it always has been but legally and not some other county of England.
