[Closed] Scotland- anyone fancy going up and demonstrating/showing that we want them?

Scotland- anyone fancy going up and demonstrating/showing that we want them?

Nope.

That's the most sensible suggestion, maybe a bike ride up there.

Singing 'please don't go' all the way...

I wonder how many would join in?

I'm serious too- I'd do any day. Regardless of the semantics of who would be worse off I personally don't want a split. If anyone hears of any event(?) could you PSA??? 🙂

If they get independence we could build a huge holding facility for immigrants just like France have done. I hope they make a go for it as it will be even sweeter when they get the wooden spoon in the 6 nations . All in good jest

The political landscape of England would change for ever lots of labour voters will go.

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Who's this 'we' you speak of?

Moar Scotland posts!

*flies Saltire*

Can anyone play the flute? maybe take a big base drum with us?

'we'?

The patriotic ones, you know the ones who believe in Great Britain.

😆

Can anyone play the flute? maybe take a big base drum with us?

i lolled

[img] [/img]

I'm an Egg-Thrower!
(knocked out in round 2 at the Egg Throwing World Championships, but got through to the quarter finals at Egg Roulette) Yes, it is a real sport!
.
Seriously though, I'd come.

The patriotic ones, you know the ones who believe in Great Britain.

I believe in Great Britain - I've looked at a map, and it's definitely there in the North Atlantic.

I think you mean the United Kingdom (political entity) not Great Britain (the island).

When I said 'nope', I think the point is that this is a decision for the scots to make.

'Interference' by Englishers is probably the last thing they want/need.

It is their decision - they can make it, and they can live by it.

The attitude of the 'no' campaign offering further concessions due to a swing in the opinion polls would actually piss me off more if I was a Scottish swing-voter on this issue.

"Oh, I see - only if it looks like you are going to lose do you attempt to bargain - well screw you, then".

Scots can make their own minds up - as long as they can stay off the booze long enough (with thanks to Prince Phillip for that one)!

'Interference' by [s]Englishers[/s] [i]people like [b]hora[/b][/i] is probably the last thing they want/need.

[quote=ninfan said]Can anyone play the flute? maybe take a big base drum with us?

well played
Chapeau

well played
Chapeau

Except for the spelling of [u]bass[/u] drum, of course.

-1 point for carelessness.

But would you walk 500 miles to show how much you care?

Oooh, it could just swing it for the Yes voters. Cameron, Milliband, Clegg and Hora. The perfect band of four. 😀

Feel free.

Over the past few weeks however, I'd say the realisation is dawning on a lot of people in Scotland (and elsewhere in the UK) that this referendum isn't really about nationhood as such - its more about our shared political landscape, how little ordinary people are involved in it, the pointlessness of selecting one of the two main parties every five years, and what political power in the UK is really about.

Its all very well feeling that we're great together (indeed, much of history would testify to this) but Scotland's voters are beginning to ask themselves to what end? Increasingly, this is not about Scottish interests alone, but about the interests of everyone outwith the very wealthy and politically influential, and the realisation that this minority is taking away for themselves what belongs to all of us, and making life tangibly worse for many of us, because our political system encourages them to do so.

In an ideal world, it wouldn't matter where on these islands you lived, we'd all be able to have this realisation and be in a position to seek to address it, but the last 30 years have shown this to be an impossibility with our political setup.

This referendum is a chance to ask questions of the status quo. Young, intelligent, pragmatic Scottish people are being politically engaged for the first time and the 'establishment' (for want of a better term) are now realising this and are becoming visibly desperate to halt it to serve their own interests. An election with a turnout of 75% could be a frightening prospect for those in power.

The prospect of real political change is becoming a possibility for the first time since Thatcher took office - Scottish independence is no longer looking like the endgame in itself any more.

But would you walk 500 miles to show how much you care?

There is a bunch of chancers flying up for an
[url= http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/09/cameron-clegg-miliband-emergency-visit-scotland ]Emergency vist[/url] 🙂

dannyh - Member

Scotland- anyone fancy going up and demonstrating/showing that we want them?

Nope.

+2

Cameron, Milliband, Clegg and Hora

I'd vote for only one of those. I don't like waste, back-scratching or soundbites.

I would however employ the cheeky girls to be my personal 'bodyguard'.

dannyh - Member
When I said 'nope', I think the point is that this is a decision for the scots to make.

When I said Nope, I mean it 😛

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Just a thought, but if Scotland decide to stay in, can we in England have a referendum to leave the union?

[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11084414/Saltire-to-fly-above-Downing-Street.html ]Too late, I think Cameron is surrendering.[/url]

Isn't it odd that, after a long campaign where the Yes side was supposed to be about emotion and Braveheart, it's the No side which starts desperately waving flags about?

Not for me. I want the scots to leave. Not because I dislike them (I'd wish them all the best, and mean it) but because I think the rUK will be better off in the long term. Yes it's selfish, but this whole thing is about selfism (it's [i]scotlands[/i] oil!) with plenty more to come. I reckon that the negotiations resulting from a no vote will be openly hostile. I don't care if they want to use the £, retain the monarchy or whatever. Their country, they can do what they like.

Devomax is the worst possible outcome for the (r)UK IMHO.

I do wonder if Cameron has deliberately thrown this. The tories don't like the scots, and could win more elections without them.

Christ on a bendybus! Has he invited the Krankies round for afternoon tea too?

You'd be better coming to Yorkshire Hora, we will be out of the UK shortly then the UK will be truly bust. Come on get over here and bribe us to stay, mines a pint of Landlord.

Apparently Nigel's coming with his wee ukip entourage. That's enough for me to make my mind up, thanks

Nigel and his growing support darn sarf are the biggest thing pushing me towards a yes.

Don't make me do it!

You'd be better coming to Yorkshire Hora, we will be out of the UK shortly then the UK will be truly bust. Come on get over here and bribe us to stay, mines a pint of Landlord.

Which part of Yorkshire? West Riding/Kirklees? The real heart of Yorkshire? Where I was born?

I'd fully support a separate Yorkshire. I'd even marry your daughters. Thus ensuring pure Yorkshire blood lad!

What flash grenades for an Independent Yorkshire?

^ A handful of shiny ten pence pieces?

The only reason any of the politicos are heading north is so they can look as if they tried if the yes vote comes in, or look like they made the decisive intervention to turn the tide if the no vote arrives.

None of them are concerned with anything more than appearances.

An election with a turnout of 75% could be a frightening prospect for those in power

No its the perfect opportunity for the politicians to demonstrate just how far from democratic the system is, to destroy the hopes and dreams and impetus of a generation as they swap Cameron for Salmond and nothing changes except for for Salmond, resulting in more apathy not less.

Apparently you can just stay down South and fly the Saltire:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/09/are-you-heeding-ed-milibands-call-to-fly-the-saltire-across-the-uk-scotland-independence

If I were voting, anything Cameron/Cleggand Milliband were selling I'd reject out of hand, those idiots couldn't sell me a glass of water in the desert if I were dying of thirst.

But I wonder how the swing vote would feel if a bunch of us actually took the trouble to march up there asking them to stay, I think there are a lot of us that regardless of the politics genuinely think it would be a bad thing if only for entirely emotional reasons.

We've stood together, fought together for so long tolerated so much crap from the political idiots that love change for changes sake (and no doubt individual power and wealth)don't think a lot of the political hangers on, lawyers, lobbyists, consultants won't get rich with this if it goes ahead and in the end no more UK.

A ghastly thought, yes it would be worth a day of my time to protest from the pro UK perspective, English division, which so far as done the square root of didlly squat to prevent this disaster.

couldn't sell me a glass of water in the desert if I were dying of thirst

wow. could you be persuaded to purchase spectactles to treat your short sightedness?

We are not emigrating nor are we upping anchor and sailing further into the Atlantic. This is a referendum to decide whether or not we leave a political union. Regardless of the outcome of the vote we will still be in the same place, you will still be free to visit, the internet will work cross border, transport links will be maintained and telecommunications will still be possible. History is history, what's been done will not change.

If we came down in numbers before next general election and asked you to vote a certain way would you do it?

If we came down in numbers before next general election and asked you to vote a certain way would you do it?

No, you skirt-wearing savage. 😉

[i]The political landscape of England would change for ever lots of labour voters will go.[/i]

well....thats another bonus I hadn't considered! That and lighter evenings for outside beer drinking and sporting activities....its looking rosier by the minute! 🙂

By the way....seeing as cameron is getting such a shoeing from all and sundry, I think a little balance is called for. Him and his mate George have between them dragged us out of the mire left by Brown and his boys and put us firmly on a path of recovery. That despite the two Ed's continually dismissing the methods involved and saying it would never work. Apart from the fact that he's a toff and made difficult decisions others wouldn't, I don't see what the problem is.

Could anyone be a popular PM in Scotland?

By the way....seeing as cameron is getting such a shoeing from all and sundry, I think a little balance is called for. Him and his mate George have between them dragged us out of the mire left by Brown and his boys and put us firmly on a path of recovery. That despite the two Ed's continually dismissing the methods involved and saying it would never work. Apart from the fact that he's a toff and made difficult decisions others wouldn't, I don't see what the problem is.

Bloody hell. I'm putting the kettle on and breaking out the hobnobs. You won't get away with sense like that on here.

If Cameron had really been that sucessful it would be obvious to everyone; he'd be the most popular PM in history; the sun would shine out of his arse crack and we wouldn't be in this situation. The fact we are says all that needs to be said.

I'm not so sure. Doing what's necessary (if that's the case) isn't always what's popular.

.....made difficult decisions others wouldn't, I don't see what the problem is.

Doing what's necessary (if that's the case) isn't always what's popular

I give up.

You don't need to give up, just realise that lots of people think public spending needed to be cut as well as lots of people thinking it didn't.

I'm not saying I didn't think it needed cutting, but the 'Spare Room Subsidy'? Come on?
No wonder, if that's the level of strategic thinking and financial management our leaders are at, that if a group of people are given the chance to try something else, they take that chance!!

rene59 - Member
We are not emigrating nor are we upping anchor and sailing further into the Atlantic. This is a referendum to decide whether or not we leave a political union. Regardless of the outcome of the vote we will still be in the same place, you will still be free to visit, the internet will work cross border, transport links will be maintained and telecommunications will still be possible. History is history, what's been done will not change.

If we came down in numbers before next general election and asked you to vote a certain way would you do it?

It will be a bloody mess, the Tax issues, just the PAYE alone will be a nightmare to administer, never mind the VAT and Pensions and I seriously believe it will be worse for Scotland, that's even if they fudge the currency, which they can't really, they have no "Bank of Scotland" well not one that anyone will have any confidence in for a long while.

That mess will have repercussions for us, what with debt swaps and God knows what the bastard banks get up to, to separate, what bloody Goldman Sachs did for Greece will be nothing compared to the dodgy deals that will be going on to make it happen.

Honestly I don't think anyone has really gone into the serious ramifications of just what separating the two of us will do and cost and don't think lots of money will get made by the city bastards doing it. Will Scotland get its own stock exchange? It'll need it.

Rockape63 - Member

Him and his mate George have between them dragged us out of the mire left by Brown and his boys and put us firmly on a path of recovery.

Or, damaged the recovery by cutting public spending in a recession, depending on who you believe (and fiddled the figures by including the sale of Royal Mail)

Can anyone play the flute? maybe take a big base drum with us?

Ooh, I know that one, I've been to Glasgow on a Saturday morning.... 😉

Put me down as nope.Just because a bunch of privileged political types are begging them to stay,doesn't mean the rest of us are..

By the way....seeing as cameron is getting such a shoeing from all and sundry, I think a little balance is called for. Him and his mate George have between them dragged us out of the mire left by Brown and his boys and put us firmly on a path of recovery. That despite the two Ed's continually dismissing the methods involved and saying it would never work. Apart from the fact that he's a toff and made difficult decisions others wouldn't, I don't see what the problem is.

Put me down as nope.Just because a bunch of privileged political types are begging them to stay,doesn't mean the rest of us are..

yep.

By the way....seeing as cameron is getting such a shoeing from all and sundry, I think a little balance is called for. Him and his mate George have between them dragged us out of the mire left by Brown and his boys and put us firmly on a path of recovery. That despite the two Ed's continually dismissing the methods involved and saying it would never work. Apart from the fact that he's a toff and made difficult decisions others wouldn't, I don't see what the problem is.

As for Dave and his mate they have managed to miss all of their targets for the economy so I am not sure what you are calling a success here, could you explain?
IMHO history shows that boom follows bust and even those incompetents could not break that cycle. They have cured the recession as much as Brown ended boom and bust.

A week ago possibly but not now, the debate had got totally lost in the mire. It's crap parent time bending over to give the spoilt brat the last vomit-inducing sweet, PS4 and iPhone 6. Flying the saltire above every building, distort the democratic structure and balance of the rUK etc in a last desperate scramble. Starting to get pathetic now.

Lay the story out clearly and let folk decide now. They have been warned and common sense dismissed as bullying etc. So f*** it! Buy your volatility options, go long Stan Char, short RBS, (but look to buy RBS CDS on the result) and use the proceeds to buy a cheaper house at a later date. At least have some fun in all this nonsense.

Think i'll buy my holiday euro's before the 18th so those foreign types up north don't make my holiday more expensive!

Hora regardless of how the vote goes our neighbours will always be welcome. There is some serious grumping going on in here anyone would think it wasn't our right to decide the future of the land we live in.

I'm English Scottish and British depending on who you ask but an accident of birth has no place in my decision to vote yes it has everything to do with a system that doesn't work the only thing that makes it a scottish referendum for me is a line north of which there is different law, different healthcare and different education and different money. If I was living in England I'd be voting to drop an unelected house of parliament and London if I had the chance.

I was thinking about this yesterday.
Wonder what effect a rUK "split the union/keep the union" poll would have.

A lot of these threads highlight the issues as felt by both sides but the truth is the 18th is about a political split. The popularity of a yes is fuelled by the banking issue (seen to be the city's fault). The austerity measures (no. 10) and what appears to be massive spending in the south east, multi billion £ projects to get city types to their desk 10 minutes earlier. We're told how the housing market has crashed and risen, when there has been no real change here. We're told there may well be another crash soon but it's all driven by a London bubble.
The fact that the three stooges are heading up today shows nothing. The fact that they have put new "offers" on the table shows that Dave's yes/no demand was deeply flawed.

I blame Mrs Doubtfire!

Watching an interview with one of Salmon's party on the Beeb this morning and the interviewer asked her all the right questions around how can you keep the pound etc and her answers were so skillful. She really did avoid answering the question point-blank. Her best/clearest answer was 'well Germany and France live in harmony with the euro as their common currency so why can't England and Scotland with the pound?

At this point the interviewer should have jumped on this but she turned the question again to discuss something else.

Salmon is the same- almost snake oil/smooth-tongued. Really really good at being positive, upbeat and avoiding trouble questions.

The no campaign though- fielding people from a failed economy and lacking in any sort of eloquence.

during the post-mortem, it'll be too late.

A lot of these threads highlight the issues as felt by both sides but the truth is the 18th is about a political split.

Better - economically - together

Fairer alone [ democratic, not as Tory, protect the NHS, no fees etc]

It shows that the population is divided on what the govts central role is in society. Make it nicer or make it richer.

It also seems that as the debate has gone on more people would rather have a fairer society than a slightly wealthier one, in Scotland anyway.

It is why no just repeat economic stuff [ equally aspirational and wish washy IMHO] and the Yes repeat aspirational stuff about a fairer world and th eland of milk and honey [ equally aspirational but what every single politician does at an election]

[i][i][i]Watching an interview with one of Salmon's party on the Beeb this morning and the interviewer asked her all the right questions around how can you keep the pound etc and her answers were so skillful. She really did avoid answering the question point-blank. Her best/clearest answer was 'well Germany and France live in harmony with the euro as their common currency so why can't England and Scotland with the pound?
[i][/i]
At this point the interviewer should have jumped on this but she turned the question again to discuss something else.

Salmon is the same- almost snake oil/smooth-tongued. Really really good at being positive, upbeat and avoiding trouble questions.

The no campaign though- fielding people from a failed economy and lacking in any sort of eloquence.[/i][/i]

during the post-mortem, it'll be too late.[/i]

Yes agreed! There is a big likelyhood that in the years following a yes vote, scores of Scots will be saying 'I didn't sign up to this', meanwhile those south of the border, (who have had to endure the years of turmoil, the split will obviously cause), will be saying 'tough sh1t, get on wiv it!

By the way....seeing as cameron is getting such a shoeing from all and sundry, I think a little balance is called for. Him and his mate George have between them dragged us out of the mire left by Brown and his boys and put us firmly on a path of recovery. That despite the two Ed's continually dismissing the methods involved and saying it would never work. Apart from the fact that he's a toff and made difficult decisions others wouldn't, I don't see what the problem is.

So when there's a worldwide financial meltdown it's all Gordon Brown's fault, and when the economy eventually recovers much slower than predicted and only really in the south east it's all thanks to wonderful Tory policy? Will the next bust still be Gordon Brown's fault?

😆

By the way....seeing as cameron is getting such a shoeing from all and sundry, I think a little balance is called for. Him and his mate George have between them dragged us out of the mire left by Brown and his boys and put us firmly on a path of recovery.

Good to see the Tory Party PR machine has an STW account! We're obviously an important demographic.

Bit late for all this isnt it? I mean, if London really cared about Scotland, what's their excuse for the last, oh, 30 years or so (don't remember any further back than that). All this action (well, promises of action) in the last day or two smacks of desperation...if I had a vote it would push me towards a yes.

I mean, if London really cared about Scotland, what's their excuse for the last, oh, 30 years or so

Is this the fantasy land where Scotland hasn't had any investment for decades and wasn't given devolution?

To be fair, I missed devolution (already left by then). But if more devolution is such a great idea now, why were they not allowed to vote on it?

Personally, I think some level of devolved govt is probably the best solution, but whether the current arrangement is ideal is another matter. Even an "independent" scotland will inevitably be heavily tied to the rest of the UK, and without its own currency it would hardly be an independent country anyway. I'm sort of relieved I don't have a vote.

A good friend of mine was banging on about the rich elite in Westminister making decisions on behalf of Scots and most of the medical research spend being spend in the south.

She literally wont hear anything else. Wont listen. Even though the 'rich elite' makes the same decision from London on us in the north. ITS WHERE THE ****ING PARLIAMENT IS FFS. 'The rich elite'. What? Should we entrust the local village idiot* who can't balance a credit card* to make decisions then?

*Oh hang on that was Gordon Brown.

Have you gottn on yer bike Hora, you know lust like Tebbit did back in the day..?

Tell us how long it takes and what bike you decide to ride, onroad or offroad route? 😉

A good friend of mine was banging on about the rich elite in Westminister making decisions on behalf of Scots

Is this the fantasy land where Scotland hasn't had any investment for decades and wasn't given devolution?

Again the Conservatives opposed devolution in the 1997 debate (although Heath personally supported Labour's proposals[4]), but this time their opposition was unsuccessful, and the Scottish Parliament was created by the Scotland Act 1998. Subsequent to its creation, the Conservative Party has indicated its acceptance of Scottish devolution as an irreversible political fact.[5]"

The Edinburgh "mafia" is as well established and more exclusive that any Westminster version. Holyrood is a side show. The real decisions take place in Elie, Muirfield, the clubs in E'burgh and in season on the stalking slopes and fishing banks.

Some things will never change. They are merely a distraction.

This isn't about Scotland. It's about London.

If it goes in favour of yes, the clamour from Wales and the English regions will become ever greater. And London - the city with streets paved with gold - will continue on it's own merry way.

Jesus wept. A SNP on the beeb just now said forget the scaremongers and the governments strongarming of supermarket leaders. The real negotiations will start on the 19th.

No. You ****ing wont. You vote yes and your gone. Ffs.