I don't see communists rushing for North Korea, China or Laos. Still a pretty weak argument when comparing to somebody who truly believes that we should only take/get what we need whilst being unthinkably rich.
Yes, you've proved my point, which is that a wealthy socialist isn't necessarily a hypocrite, any more than a right winger who uses the NHS.
Oh, and have you been to Laos? I have, and I can assure you that it's communist in name only.
Yes, you've proved my point, which is that a wealthy socialist isn't necessarily a hypocrite, any more than a right winger who uses the NHS.
A wealthy communist is though.
He maybe worth every penny. He may do a great job for his members. He may even be a nice chap. He is not a communist.
A far more accurate comparison would be a staunch free market capitalist campaigning for re-nationalisation.
A wealthy communist is though.
He maybe worth every penny. He may do a great job for his members. He may even be a nice chap. He is not a communist.
A far more accurate comparison would be a staunch free market capitalist campaigning for re-nationalisation.
Could you explain why he is not a communist?
Do you know what, no offence but I can't be bothered to go through it again. Read the thread.
Perhaps you [i]need[/i] (clue) look up what communists believe.
Do you know what, no offence but I can't be bothered to go through it again. Read the thread.
Perhaps you need (clue) look up what communists believe.
I've read the thread and am aware of the various communist theories.
You appear to be labouring under the misapprehension that all communists have the same beliefs and goals. How then, do you explain the China-Soviet split and Trotsky's exile?
You need to do some reading, then you can come back and substantiate your claim.
You appear to be labouring under the misapprehension that all communists have the same beliefs and goals. How then, do you explain the China-Soviet split and Trotsky's exile?
WTF is the relevance of this?
I don't need to do any reading, we're talking the most basic communist theory. The thing which makes communists, communists. The COMMUNE part if you like.
You can sneeringly throw in irrelvant factiods to make yourself look [i]really[/i] clever all you like. Changes nothing (except your smug level).
Communism (from Latin communis - common, universal) is a revolutionary socialist movement to create a classless, moneyless, and stateless social order
Nice wiki for you (very first line). Do you really not see how being stinking rich conflicts with this? [i]Really?[/i]
Perhaps you need (clue) look up what communists believe.
We have. Can you explain why Bob Crow, isn't (in your opinion) a 'communist'?
So someone who rose to a position of power becomes addicted to the trappings of the position, especially the material and financial ones. Nothing new there, although the irony/hypocrisy is pretty obvious to all. It's a "fix" many find so hard to come down from irrespective of their background or political persuasion.
But hey, he is a man of principal, an honest hero of the minng community. So members are asked (allegedly) to cough up £20 a year. For such a man, that sounds a bargain after all he did for them during his years at the actual and metaphorical coal-face. And yes, he can use the flat to host the party that people seem to be anticipating with such relish. Where's the problem?
Communism (from Latin communis - common, universal) is a revolutionary socialist movement to create a classless, moneyless, and stateless social orderNice wiki for you (very first line). Do you really not see how being stinking rich conflicts with this? Really?
Well if you're going to use that definition then being poor is as incompatible to being a communist as being "stinking rich".
WTF is the relevance of this?
I don't need to do any reading, we're talking the most basic communist theory. The thing which makes communists, communists. The COMMUNE part if you like.
As I said:
You appear to be labouring under the misapprehension that all communists have the same beliefs and goals.
Do you always have this much trouble with basic comprehension?
You can sneeringly throw in irrelvant factiods to make yourself look really clever all you like. Changes nothing (except your smug level).
You really have become a Big Hitter since there was a gap in the market 🙄
is a revolutionary socialist movement to create a classless, moneyless, and stateless social order?
Your view seems to be everyone who espouses communism should live in abject poverty, a classless society and a stateless one - they are all hypocrits then. Luckily everyone right wing can do whatever they want and not be a hypocrit
Do you really think this is a coherent view? I know you do but it is not.
This is an aside to the whole Scargill debate for which I agree with THM - he is not a hypocrit because he is wealthy it is how he has become wealthy that I have issue with - a fat cat living of the backs of the workers
Do you always have this much trouble with basic comprehension?
It's not relevant. Do you always have trouble with basic comprehension?
You really have become a Big Hitter since there was a gap in the market
And the bullying lefty circle is complete. Fred, ernie and junkyard. Socialisttrackworld lumping in when a view disagrees with theirs.
You've always been a big hitter haven't you junkyard? You do love to try to belittle people and get a bit personal. Push the buttons. I reckon it's because you're a bit inadequate in real life.
Your view seems to be everyone who espouses communism should live in abject poverty, a classless society and a stateless one - they are all hypocrits then. Luckily everyone right wing can do whatever they want and not be a hypocrit
That's not my view at all. That's your interpretation.
You do love to try to belittle people and get a bit personal. Push the buttons. I reckon it's because you're a bit inadequate in real life.
But you are above all that ?
It's not relevant. Do you always have trouble with basic comprehension?
It's entirely relevant, because you are arguing from a false premise. It's such an obvious point that one can only assume that your ignorance is wilful.
Incorrect. You are merely attempting to muddy the waters with petty debate on slightly differing streams of communism. The basic ideals are common ones. Or do you suggest that some communists believe in rampant capitalism? Because that is the system which Mr Crow is [i]capitalising[/i] on and personally benefiting and thriving from. He is charging his services according to what the market will bare. And this is the system which he (apparently) fundamentally disagrees with (but obviously doesn't).
He is charging his services according to what the market will bare.
I thought he was paid a salary agreed upon by the union themselves? One which members seem ok about. And one which they, as members, can have a say about in meetings. I havne't heard about any challenge to the level of salary he is paid, by any RMT members. Please enlighten me if there have in fact been any.
You've still not come up with any evidence to support your opinion that he isn't a 'communist'. What have his earnings got to do with anything? Is there a set level at which a person is or isn't a communist? I'm not aware of this. I thought communism was an issue of political ideology, not something to do with level of personal income.
Flippin jaysus, I'm lost. Are we on Crow now or Scargill? 😕
If you want to complain about personal stuff it is probably best to not write something like that as your defence.
I am not even sure saying you are trying to be a BH is an insult and it would seem clear from that post you really are trying
Oh the ironing - though in your case I cannot discount complete stupidty and a lack of awareness 😉
Ps I agree with many of the right wingers on here over Scargill being a hypocrit so I am not sure what this unified front is you think we are sharing in socialist trackworld - The right do like lazy slurs as there are as many right wingers on this thread [ you, Zull -11. THM - though no doubt many of you wil ldenty being right wing. I dont feel the need to insult you for this or think you are taking over the forum- why do the right winfg do this? I think the forum is fairly balanced in having its extremist from all political wings
Having read a little more on the Scargill matter, it appears he believes the flat is his to use until his death, whereas the NUM are arguing he has no legal claim to continue living there. Obviously none of know all the ins and outs of this case, so i imagine it's a tad more complex than any of us know really.
It does seem a little hypocritical of him to want to continue to have use of a flat he doesn't really need, that's costing the union he once worked very hard for, more money than they wish/can afford to spend.
Maybe he thinks he should continue to live there as a 'reward' for his services. Maybe he has a fair argument in that respect. However, he's not demanding ownership of the flat, just the right to live there. So maybe that is a bit socialist still?
Could the not reach a compromise and get him a smaller, cheaper flat in a less expensive part of London? although
Incorrect. You are merely attempting to muddy the waters with petty debate on slightly differing streams of communism. The basic ideals are common ones. Or do you suggest that some communists believe in rampant capitalism? Because that is the system which Mr Crow is capitalising on and personally benefiting and thriving from. He is charging his services according to what the market will bare. And this is the system which he (apparently) fundamentally disagrees with (but obviously doesn't).
We were talking about Arthur Scargill, now you've moved on to Bob Crow. I do wish you'd make your mind up.
As for differences in communist philosophy, there are some fundamental ones, which you should be aware of if you want to start labelling people.
If you could set aside your frothing indignation for a moment, could you tell us which communist ideals Scargill espouses and doesn't live up to?
Oh the ironing - though in your case I cannot discount complete stupidty and a lack of awareness
Can't help yourself can you? Love exercising the freedom that internet anonymity affords you to spout off because real life would teach you a very difficult lesson in using your language like that. 😀
You amuse me.
We were talking about Arthur Scargill, now you've moved on to Bob Crow. I do wish you'd make your mind up.
I was never talking about scargill.
I was never talking about scargill.
Your very first comment on this thread was about Scargill.
Next!
Your very first comment on this thread was about Scargill.
That's a bit selective is it not?
Thios thread is now turning into a bitch fest and individuals having a pop at each other, rather than a discussion/debate. Is there any point in petty point-scoring?
That's a bit selective is it not?
You said you were never talking about Scargill. That's not true.
One might also ask why you're commenting on a thread specifically about Scargill.
Thios thread is now turning into a bitch fest and individuals having a pop at each other, rather than a discussion/debate. Is there any point in petty point-scoring?
True. Let's do better.
Here's a question: Union leaders are remunerated by their members, at a level agreed by their members. What does it have to do with anybody else?
Here's a question: Union leaders are remunerated by their members, at a level agreed by their members. What does it have to do with anybody else?
Answer; nothing.
wow you insult me so i insulted you back [ has life not taught you this lessonCan't help yourself can you? Love exercising the freedom that internet anonymity affords you to spout off because real life would teach you a very difficult lesson in using your language like that.
Is it just because in real life you are so physically awesome and imposing no one dare answer you back when you are rude lest you give them the real world lesson you think I deserve - given its you I can only assume you mean a kicking.
I am warming to your inner beauty with every post.
So what does the amount someone earns have to do with teir political ideologies?
I am warming to your inner beauty with every post.
It's mutual sweetheart.
Is it just because in real life you are so physically awesome and imposing no one dare answer you back when you are rude lest you give them the real world lesson you think I deserve - given its you I can only assume you mean a kicking.
No, babyface. It's because I'm trying to figure out why you're such a bitter person. Why you write with such obvious spite. You kick off with barely hidden insults and act aggrieved when you get some back. I'm thinking it's related to your real persona and probably the inability to have a voice or get noticed. You have such anger in you, honey. You need to work it out. And why the violence reference? It's just not healthy.
I don't know if you've noticed but this thread was quite civil before you burst in. Reminds me of how fred used to behave.
Time to close this thread?
No. Let's ask whether £32,450 is a suitable level for the 40% tax rate to kick in (or whatever it is) and let the random squabbling run for another 5 pages - while the rest of us can discuss in a civilised manner elsewhere.
I don't know if you've noticed but this thread was quite civil before you burst in.
you actually believe that dont you 🙄
Get the thread back on track please, or it's getting closed...
JY, wrecker. Let's calm down. Look, we've all had a few drinks. It's been a great night...
We need kaesae's views on this
Im off to the Barbican tonight for dinner round a friends house. Any idea which block/flat he is in? I could go wee in his shoes if yo like?