[Closed] Rugby world cup

[i]onehundredthidiot - Member
I don't understand how ireland don't get penalised at the break down for being off their feet and not rolling away and having a loose forward on the wrong side of the ball. Almost every time. [/i]

You don't seem to have received the Rugby Law Annexe 3.1.2.(Addendum relating to Irish Teams, inc Ireland, Munster, Leinster.) which relates that Irish teams (and Irish teams and Ritchie McCaw ONLY) and can do whatever they like at the breakdown, especially with regards to players flopping over the ball in the manner of a fat English prop from the 90s, or just generally being on the wrong side of the breakdown.

It's quite a rare document which was only meant for the coaches of the relevant sides and referees.

You don't seem to have received the Rugby Law Annexe 3.1.2.(Addendum relating to Irish Teams, inc Ireland, Munster, Leinster.) which relates that Irish teams (and Irish teams and Ritchie McCaw ONLY) and can do whatever they like at the breakdown, especially with regards to players flopping over the ball in the manner of a fat English prop from the 90s, or just generally being on the wrong side of the breakdown.

It's quite a rare document which was only meant for the coaches of the relevant sides and referees.

[img] [/img]

However the basic point still remains - all recent games between the three teams have been tight and there is no great gulf between them

I'm not worried about Argentina or England (get a grip with the black kit though). Its bloody Romania and especially Georgia that worry me. Does no one remember how good they were last time out?

Betting odds to win outright (and just taking the first ones I can see):

NZ 4/6
Oz 5
SA 9
England 12
France 21
Ireland 28
Wales 66
Argentina 125
Scotland 150

Argentina v England: 3/10 for Eng, 5/2 Arg, 25 for a draw.

Can't see any odds for Sco v Arg yet.

Might be worth a pound or two on Wales (wishful thinking!) or a fiver on Oz or France. Or even England?

Worth a tenner on France at 21-1.

Worth a tenner on Scotland or Argentina as they're up there with Engurland.

[i]don simon - Member
Worth a tenner on Scotland or Argentina as they're up there with Engurland.

[/i]

For a one off win perhaps, but to win the RWC?

I agree that on their day, any of the home nations can beat any other. But then can they go on to beat SA, Oz, NZ? The only ones with a track record of doing that are England.

There is always an outside chance I guess, but iirc there hasn't been a single RWC won by an outside chance (maybe except 95 which imo was a political thing).

For a one off win perhaps, but to win the RWC?

I wouldn't put a tenner on Scotland winning the WC. Perfectly capable of beating the bigger teams - but not several of them one after the other which they would need to do,

Those odds above look about right to me although I would say england are poor buy at that and if you want a long shot Ireland look really good value at 28/1

Think those odds for England are English bookies odds

Sure you would get a better deal in most other countries. Agree that they are more likely than the other home nations, just through sheer depth of numbers.

Really cannot see Scotland, Wales or Ireland beating all the big teams but no doubt capable of at least one big 'upset'

Perfectly capable of beating the bigger teams

😀

Ireland have the players and given a big slice of luck could like england cause a one off upset, Wales given a huge amount of luck could beat a top team if they could get their first 15 all fit and firing as they have a number of match winning players in their team. Scotland just dont have the firepower imo. I'll ask again how many tries have they scored in the last 3 years?

Taz - Member
Think those odds for England are English bookies odds

Paddy Power have England at 12, Ireland at 25, Wales at 80, Scotland at 175.

Unless I'm mistaken, Paddy power are Irish.

Anyway, since when has national bias been part of a bookies remit?

Pretty sure Scotland beat SA this year & OZ last year. Just gutted that AA has managed to change the rules so that only tries count towards winning

Agree Scotland's try record is not great, but 3 tries in Paris this year (for example) shows they can get over the line.

Issue for me is Scotland do seem capable of line breaks but then somehow contrive to not convert that to tries

Idle Jon its not a bookies bias. It is risk management

They know they will get more money on England therefore the odds are reduced accordingly.

The fact Paddy Power is Irish is irrelevant. Odds for an English team in England is the risk they have to manage and balance between attracting punters vs the risk of actually having to pay out

This season:

Scotland 3 - 49 New Zeland (no tries)
Scotland 21 - 17 SA (great result but no tries)
Scotland 19 - 16 Samoa (one try well done lads)
France 34 - 21 Scotland (three tries a new dawn in scotland rugby)
Scotland 6 - 24 Wales (oh maybe not then)
Scotland 18 - 21 Ireland (no tries)
England 22 - 16 Scotland (a try whoop whoop)
Scotland 21 - 8 Italy (two tries in a mighty win against Italy)
Scotland 10 - 6 Ireland (one try against Ireland B)

So a great result against a knackered SA at home and a win against Italy, as compared to being hammered by wales at home and struggling to do anything against Ireland B makes them likely to spring a suprise against top Nations at the world cup, come on do you really believe it?

You don't seem to have received the Rugby Law Annexe 3.1.2.(Addendum relating to Irish Teams, inc Ireland, Munster, Leinster.) which relates that Irish teams (and Irish teams and Ritchie McCaw ONLY) and can do whatever they like at the breakdown, especially with regards to players flopping over the ball in the manner of a fat English prop from the 90s, or just generally being on the wrong side of the breakdown.

Very funny. Utter bollocks of course, but still funny.

DD - another ref another day would have given plenty more penalties against them for ruck offences yesterday.

I want 5 officials for international rugby matches =- far too much gets missed. Offside in the backs, scrum offences where its dropped on the side away from the ref, blocking in the midfield, forward passes

Did anyone see the knock that was missed by Steve Walsh? Wilko got smashed and the ball went forward at least 15 yards and he missed it which led to the england scrum and try, was amazing.

Oh FFS, it's a standard STW line these days TeeJ. "My team rucked like eejits today and were destroyed at the breakdown. Ergo, the other team was cheating."

anagallis_arvensis - Member
Did anyone see the knock that was missed by Steve Walsh? Wilko got smashed and the ball went forward at least 15 yards and he missed it which led to the england scrum and try, was amazing.

Glad you brought that up! How was that NOT a knock on? Walsh had a very poor game yesterday, IMO, but that's become the norm for him.

I want 5 officials for international rugby matches =- far too much gets missed. Offside in the backs, scrum offences where its dropped on the side away from the ref, blocking in the midfield, forward passes

I'm putting Ireland's loss down to poor reffing by Barnes. He simply didn't allow the green machine to get away with the amount of infringements at the breakdown that he normally does. Flecker. 🙂

Walsh was even shouting to Care to play on as Care was being very careful not to add to Stoddarts agony.
I didnt see much wrong with the Irish play, it was just Scotlands imcompetance when asked to score tries that stood out.

Don't get me wrong Scotland were utter sh*te when a gap opened, and has been said already couldn't score in a brothel. But come on DD let the green scales slide from your eyes Irish teams have perfected the break down infringement. Someone needs to read Trimble the script though.

Sorry, no green scales (?) here. Just sick and tired of hearing supporters of teams that are outclassed at the breakdown whinging that it's the other team infringing, poor reffing, yadda yadda yadda. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

I didnt see much wrong with the Irish play, it was just Scotlands imcompetance when asked to score tries that stood out

As a level 3 ref,I saw plenty wrong,Ireland killed the ball at every opp,they were not even very good at doing it either,compared to the likes of Ritchie Mac or Simon Shaw. But then 2xv team players (as you term them) like McFadden and McCarthy (4 and 1 caps respectively)can't be expected to keep up with play. You would have thought their team mates,like Horan and that other new front row tyro Hayes, would have helped them, maybe they were a bit green themselves eh?
From my point of view it is a worry the Scots were not able to stop them doing it.But then we are pretty limited.Scotland will get out of their group,that is most realistic supporters ambition (sorry tj) Winning ugly yesterday was better than losing.I will take exactly the same game and score against Argentina. At the end of the day not you,ME,DD or Flash are following a team that has ANY chance of winning the WC.

At the end of the day not you,ME,DD or Flash are following a team that has ANY chance of winning the WC.

It's still going to be great fun watching though! 🙂

I'm just glad you haven't got any further than level three then. You'd be blowing your whistle every few seconds if there were [i]that[/i] many infringements. 🙂

Have you thought about applying to be an independent assessor though? They really need someone who can put them right on their inadequacies when it comes to refereeing the breakdown. 😉

It's easy DD, three penalties for the same thing, yesterday it was "sealing in" the tackled player, word with the skipper (prob the worst offender), fourth one, yellow.All hopefully done in the first 20mins. I would love to be an assessor, alas despite recent efforts I am not fat enough yet, but I am working on it.

anagallis_arvensis - Member
Did anyone see the knock that was missed by Steve Walsh? Wilko got smashed and the ball went forward at least 15 yards and he missed it which led to the england scrum and try, was amazing.

Glad you brought that up! How was that NOT a knock on? Walsh had a very poor game yesterday, IMO, but that's become the norm for him.

Lol, Walsh is very entertaining. Pity he's a crap ref. When you've got time do a quick google of his name.

From Wiki:

[i]In the 2003 Rugby World Cup he was suspended for three days for inappropriate behaviour towards the England rugby team, after an altercation with England fitness coach Dave Reddin.[2] He missed one match and then went on to referee the quarter final between Australia v Scotland. He was suspended for four months in 2005 during the Lions tour of New Zealand for verbally abusing Irish winger Shane Horgan,[3] after a disputed decision.

On Wednesday 18 March 2009 it was announced that Walsh would lose his job after a third strike on his record.[4] [/i]

Iirc he also got into a fight at an aggression management conference, or something similarly ludicrous.

As far as the knock on was concerned, he seemed to be asking his linesmen if they saw what happened.

As a level 3 ref,I saw plenty wrong,Ireland killed the ball at every opp,they were not even very good at doing it either,compared to the likes of Ritchie Mac or Simon Shaw. But then 2xv team players (as you term them) like McFadden and McCarthy (4 and 1 caps respectively)can't be expected to keep up with play. You would have thought their team mates,like Horan and that other new front row tyro Hayes, would have helped them, maybe they were a bit green themselves eh?

what level do you think Barnes is? Hayes is shit but I'm pretty sure the even shitter Buckley was playing tighthead, have to say though the soporific play didnt allow me to get to grips with who was playing loosehead.

Talking of props I thought the english cokehead prop was very good yesterday he will push Cole hard for a starting spot, England are very blessed at tighthead

Barnes is elite (level 1) but he was rubbish yesterday,as others have noted on here. Front row was Court, Flannerys apprentice (Flannery came on) Buckle.

Talking of props I thought the [s]english[/s][b]Saffer[/b] cokehead prop was very good yesterday he will push Cole hard for a starting spot, England are very blessed at tighthead

POSTED 1 HOUR AGO # REPORT-POST

FIFY, But I agree, Cole will not start in front of Stevens,who has been superb since his return. I also thought Mears did what is expected from a hooker a bit better than Hartley when he came on.Not as flash,but more solid.

Thats a big call on Mears, Hartley the gouging kiwi **** has really come on as a player the welsh didnt even make a little effort to wind him up. I thought both Croft and Flutey were very quiet, Haskell is just shit I really dont get him. Banahan once again showed that he's a bit crap but Armitage could push Foden hard and maybe the best bet to partner Ashton on the wing as Cueto is solid but lacks pace.

next week for Wales I'd like to see something along the lines of:

15 Priestland (needs to be considered here with Byrne, Hook, 1/2p and Stoddart with various levels of injury)
14 North (needs game time)
13 Roberts/Davies
12 Henson (if he's in the squad he neess to be risked)
11 Erm.....well I'd like to not risk Shane but the alternative is Brew 😮
10 Jones
9 Would like to see Peel but not sure the English clubs have released him yet, so maybe a start for Knoyle with Phillips on bench if it goes tits up.
8 Delve
7 Warbaton
6 Ryan Jones
5&4 Has to be Jones and Davies as the rest are all shite
3 Adam Jones if fit if not has to be Mitchell again
2 Benett
1 James with Gethin on bench if fit

AA said -Wales and england are pretty much level on historical record but england are currently a much better team, these stats are pointless.

But if you compare Wales and England WC stats England are streets ahead. I have always wondered about this and I think its either :

1) Wales are not as good as us, but have so much heart (or hate) for england that they raise their game against us.
2) England are only really as good as Wales but are capable of raising their game on an international stage whereas wales only give a shit about beating us..

Or a combination of the two...

Secondly this crap about reffing and Ireland getting away with stuff is soooooooo boring, all refs make mistakes, its part of the game, they cannot see everything. Take the pain and move on. I feel the complaints against Ireland are all about the last 6 nations when Ireland destroyed us. I say get over it, Ireland were awesome at the breakdown, mainly due to serious aggression and that big ginger bloke picking our players out of the rucks and mauls and chucking us out of the way. They were just better than us on the day, wanted it more. GET OVER IT.

I don't envy England much, but I do envy the fact that they had such an awesome side in the nineties that actually went to the SH and brought the RWC back north of the equator. They got to the final last time round through grit and determination - because they sure went to the competition with not much of a team on paper. All that comes from the experience of taking SH sides apart in the nineties. They have a RWC winner coaching them. I don't really know what it is, but despite the green machine's recent dominance over England, they'll probably still get further than Ireland in the RWC.

Other than that, toys' comments about the breakdown stuff stand. Interestingly enough toys, I don't hear too many English (other than flash, who is a plastic Welsh) fans bleating about the breakdown. They took their beating like men. The main detectors on this thread are 1 x Welsh and 2 x Scots.

[tongue firmly in cheek]only a scot could whinge about the opposition despite winning 🙂 [/tongue firmly in cheek]

But if you compare Wales and England WC stats England are streets ahead. I have always wondered about this

They were doing England Wales matches before even the 5 nations I think and long before the World Cup existed. In those days form was far from consistent, so it was a bit more random.

Toys19 its number 1, a first choice welsh 15 will always compete but England have more better players and much more strength in depth.

I'm not too concerned about the Irish killing fast ball,as toys said we won. My boner was about it being a b side! I think A-A is just blinded by love and is not thinking straight. Just for you A-A. 😀
[IMG] [/IMG]

My boner was about it being a b side

You get a boner from that? Jeebus...that's a bit weird.

(It was a b-side btw)

They were doing England Wales matches before even the 5 nations I think and long before the World Cup existed. In those days form was far from consistent, so it was a bit more random.

If you check since records began its about 100 odd games since 1896 or whenever and the wins are 50 each.

[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_rugby_union_matches_between_England_and_Wales ]Wales v England Stats since the dinosaurs[/url]

edit its 56% to england

"A total of 121 matches have been played, with England having won 56 times, Wales having won 53 times and twelve matches having been drawn. Both Teams having beaten every other team in the northern hemisphere more times than they have been beaten by them."

England have more [s]better[/s] players and much more strength in depth

FTFY.

By that I mean more players in general, leading to more better players.

Dream on Darcy! (loser 8) )

More rugby players in London than NZ, so that is not always the case Molgrips. Makes you wonder about their need to call up SA exiles.

It was a b-side btw

what he said!!

PS I luvs Gavin!

loser

That'd be the second time you've folded in the face of blinding rationality then. 🙄

It was a b-side. One that should still have beaten a team like Scotland of course, but no, they lost.