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Wales have Adam Jones, Lee Byrne and James Hook available for Saturday's return Test with England in Cardiff.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/welsh/14437918.stm
Great to see Adam back. Great prop and a lovely guy too!
Blinding rationality and you are unlikely to ever sit together DD,example;
They took their beating like men. The main detectors on this thread are 1 x Welsh and 2 x Scots
What beating is it that you are talking about?
Well, duckman, if you were to have a read of what toys19 wrote, he was suggesting that a lot of people were whinging about the Irish infringements at the breakdown because they were a bit sore after the walloping England got in Dublin. Actually, I disagree with him on this point because any England fan I know said on the day that they just got beaten by a better side on the day and didn't bleat on (like some people very close to this thread) making excuses about cheating.
I think I may have misspelled "detractors" - but I was referencing you, IdleJon and onehundredthidiot and of course the plastic Welshman, Flashheart.
Now, you can whinge on about it all you want, and I said I'm happy to agree to disagree with you on the breakdown stuff...you're obviously convinced, and there's no point in trying to change your mind. You are of course, a level 3 expert who feels he could do far better than Mr. Barnes. What would I know eh? I just saw Scotland letting themselves get bullied at the breakdown, but still winning a game. Fair dues to them for doing it. FFS, why do you insist on bleating on about it?
Oh, and finally, it [b][i]was[/i][/b] a b-side. They said it on tv. It was said in the papers. And here, from the BBC match report:
The visitors made 13 changes to the side that finished the Six Nations with a stirring victory over England
Still a b-side that lost. Crap. But we move on.
Now, given that the side that beat England was pretty much Ireland's best available side, is this not enough for you?
Now, if you're struggling with all that, I really don't know what else I can do. I suppose I could name call...and throw the odd insult, but that wouldn't be very grown up would it?
Finally, try reading the frickin posts to work out what people are talking about before typing again.
Both the Eng / Wales and Scot / Ire matches at the weekend were poor. The main point of them was to give real game time to players who have spent the past months in training. It allowed coaches to see how some players performed outside of the training environment. I suspect every coach got something out of the matches.
Eng - pack was rusty - but ok - Haskell is not a No 8 - Waldron should have stayed. Backs lack communication - but I don't think Fluty will travel down under and Tualagi may not get any game time in the RWC
Wales - pack needs their star props, otherwise life is going to be tough. Backs (once the ball gets past Philips - a player getting worse) were ok. Feel bad for Stoddart
Ireland - when the big players come back will improve a lot - but it shows how much they have come to depend on the big players
Scotland - no injuries, played ok, but will suffer from a depth in quality. You tend to lose players during the RWC - could have a big impact on them
Watching the NZ vs Oz in the morning was a huge difference in class. However all their players have just come off the back of the Super 15 and Tri-Nations. Was always going to be a 'better' match.
NZ must be the favourites - but like all tournaments - one defeat and you go home (when you get to the knockout stage). If one team has a huge game in them, then NZ could lose. (And without Carter they are a lot weaker).
Just want it to start!
I'll just add in, I'd love to see Henson line up against Manu - see who wins that particular battle (ok, 12 vs 13 but you get the drift) I reckon Henson could well get hit so hard it'd knock the orange off his skin. What a lovely sight that'd be.
The one thing most seem to be missing, is that this is a lot of rusty players, trial partnerships and first caps ( comment about Manu for instance "he'll be found out against more experianced players" erm yes, clearly. he guys 20 and just won his first cap....)to see who's going to mke the squad. Very little will be learnt other than the individuals performancies. What really shows that the home nations have no chance is the fact we're all crying out to blood newcomers, try certain pairings, sack the coach etc - 4 weeks from the tournement.
We're all doomed I tell thee.
. FFS, why do you insist on bleating on about it?
I don't,Why would I be sore about England losing to Ireland? Read my post,(some advice you are quick to pass on) I agreed with an above post that Ireland were killing the ball at the breakdown,and Barnes/Scotland didn't handle it.I then said what I would do, based on my experience as a ref up here,bearing in mind I apply them to Premiership games up here every Sat during the season.Unsure why that made you so sore.
The same media you are quoting said the same about Barnes and the Irish at the breakdown, are you being selective?
You are of course, a level 3 expert who feels he could do far better than Mr. Barnes. What would I know eh?
Now, if you're struggling with all that, I really don't know what else I can do. I suppose I could name call...and throw the odd insult, but that wouldn't be very grown up would it?
Choose please, I read the first one as an [b]attempt[/b] to insult me.
Choose please, I read the first one as an attempt to insult me.
I suppose it could be construed as such. Sarcasm on my part. But you're the one who brought up your experience to criticise a ref who is better than you. As said before, you can bleat on all you like about the breakdown stuff - but I and plenty others don't agree with you. So now, it's [i]Scotland[/i] as well as Barnes that didn't handle it? 🙂
Why would I be sore about England losing to Ireland?
Is there no end to your misunderstanding mine and other posts? Where did I say that? I think maybe that toys19 thought some of the bleaters were England fans...but I'd be putting words in his mouth. He'll explain himself at some point I'm sure. I was simply pointing out that no, the bleaters were chiefly 2 x Scots, 1 x Welsh and 1 x plastic Welsh. Please don't make me explain this again. I'm not sure I can find another way of doing it.
Oh, and I take it you now agree that it [b][i]was[/i][/b] a b-side. Thankfully we're done on that one.
Interestingly, can you find any quotes about this constant infringement at the breakdown? I've only really been reading the BBC stuff, and the Observer/Guardian coverage.
This is a thread about Rugby, lets keep it civil chaps.
[playground]Waaaaaa. He started it sir.[/playground]
What really shows that the home nations have no chance is the fact we're all crying out to blood newcomers, try certain pairings, sack the coach etc - 4 weeks from the tournement.
We're all doomed I tell thee.
got to agree with that!
Regardinh Henson, surely he will start this weekend, given injuries the world cup squad could well only have Byrne and Priestland as 15's and Jones, Hook and Priestland which means Hook is considered more as a 10/15 rather than 12. Basicly it looks to be between Scott Willimas who covers wing and centre or Henson who is a 12 but can cover 12, 10 and 15 from the bench.
Delve has to be given a chance too he's a super doopa rugby captain afterall.
Peels chances seem to have been scuppered by priemier rugby.
I never got chance to watch the home nations games, but the results and reports were pretty poor. on the flip side I’ve seen all the tri nation games, ozzy and AB looked really good against SA. I know SA had a second string side but if you have to resort to mind games then you’re already scared your teams lacking. This was obvious from the super 15 teams as well.
I went to watch the bledisloe cup last Saturday and as much as I cheered the wallabies on the forwards were just too lazy, on the other hand the ABs looked sharp and composed in defence and scything in attack. This is a bitter pill as I would love to see them fail again; in fact I would love to see any other team walk away with the RWC.
I’ll enjoy it anyway, I’ve got tickets for
England vs. Argentina
England vs. Scotland
nz vs. japan
Wales vs. Fiji
Wales vs. Samoa
Ireland vs. Russia
I actually think Wales looked much more composed and efficient when attacking near the line and think this is a huge positive, England on the other hand looked pretty toothless and if it wasnt for Jesus kicking pens and taking drop goals they would have lost, Wales on the otherhand kicked to the corners rather than at goal treating the game as the warm up it was. Fair enough England won but against a poor Wales team they seemed pretty short of ideas and composure.
if it wasnt for Jesus kicking pens and taking drop goals they would have lost
Don't knock it, this won us the WC in 2003.
Toys - nothing to do with Martin Johnson and the rest of the forwards dominating?
Don't knock it, this won us the WC in 2003.
Agreed. I can't help but applaud drop goals, even when they're being scored against Wales! They're a great part of the game, built on the foundation only a strong pack can deliver.
Oddly, the Messiah reference could be more apt to NZ, I think. Without Carter, they could struggle. Sadly, they have an easy group to get through though. Will be cheering Tonga on! 🙂
Ireland v Russia - if the green machine sticks to RWC form, that could be a close one 😯
Toys - nothing to do with Martin Johnson and the rest of the forwards dominating?
Well I agree but most less than partial observers saw England's win as Jonny's win, so I was kinda being ironic. I was trying[b] not [/b]to start an argument whilst being compelled to defend the white Rose, think of it as new me..
Anyway I like Flood better than Wilko, not that Wilko isn't awesome, but I think Flood seems to make the backs flourish better than Wilko..
I do admire AA's enthusiasm, but Wales were only ahead for about 7mins and were therefore constantly chasing the game. I felt Eng were in control and didn't really look like losing. I struggle with the Welsh optimism that they were fitter at the end of the game. So what? A game is 80mins, not 90, but the game changed when Eng bought on their subs and they never really got going in the last 20mins.
Anyway looking forward to Sat night as I get to go to the pub to watch Fra v Ire in Cork with a nice cold Murph's or 2
if it wasnt for Jesus kicking pens and taking drop goals they would have lostDon't knock it, this won us the WC in 2003.
Not kocking it in the context of a competitive match but in a warm up game it says something I'd be worried about if I was an england fan. As I've said england are a better team and squad than wales and when I said wales have improved it was in relation to the piss poor composure of the team during the six nations. TimP not sure why you are so keen to jump down my throat for saying Wales played some decent rugby at times and England looked toothless, drop goals and a conservative game plan can be a thing of beauty but England dont have the power up front against good teams t get away with it at the moment.
Had Eng played an open game and lost, the knockers would be out too. What we failed to do was wrap up the game that we had won with an hour gone.
but England dont have the power up front against good teams t get away with it at the moment
A bit harsh on those that didn't start on Saturday. This week will definitely be a better measure of where Eng and Wales are as neither team was at full strength and it was the first game for a while for anyone.
And that was hardly jumping down your throat! Wales needed tries so kicking to the corners was the only way back and it worked, but had they been 5 behind on the hour I suggest that they would have been looking for posts a fair bit more?
twohunnerd!
Just watched the Scotland game again - yup - loads of Irish offside and not penalised - but why did the scots forwards not sort 'em out? You play to the ref andthat one was more tolerent that some - so the Scots forwards shulod hve been getting them out of there.
as neither team was at full strength
That was the strongest welsh 15 available, apart from maybe swapping Jones or Delve for Falatau.
Wales needed tries so kicking to the corners was the only way back
Wales were not kicking goals when they scored their first try to take the lead. Still not to worry if your happy with that performance from england good luck to you I ust hope the coaches are as blinkered.
loads of Irish offside and not penalised
Nope, incorrect 🙂
Down to the Scotch forwards I'm afraid.
Very telling that Englands first penalty - kick for goal. Wales - kick tot eh corner.
Waht is the point of giving Wilkinson goals to kick in these games - we know he can.
drop goals should be banned, or only allowed from your own half.
i cant wait till wilkinson retires 😉
DD - there was loads of them offside. Its very easy to see - the game is on iplayer - but you are right and as I said the scots forwards should have cleared them out.
I did say at full strength, not what was available? I am sure you would want Jones, Rees and Jenkins in the front row? And Wales took the lead about 15mins in from 3-0 down at which point I hope Eng would have done the same (I doubt they would, but wishful thinking).
I have never said I was happy with the performance, just that it isn't as bad as some people want it to be.
i cant wait till wilkinson retires
I like Wilkinson a model professional and always plays hard and fair.
I like Wilkinson a model professional and always plays hard and fair.
+1
monkey_boy you are only complaining about what is obvious, I cannot see how he has been detrimental to the english game in any way.
I cannot see how he has been detrimental to the english game in any way.
well he cant pass water or get a backline moving
😆well he cant pass water or get a backline moving
Wilkinson is and always has been a limited player. Great for rugby of the 2003 style but the game has moved on. England will not win the WC and will not regularly trouble the top nations playing in a 2003 style.
Even Wales outscored them on tries.
I like Wilkinson a model professional and always plays hard and fair.
+1
Yep England didn't look great vs Wales but I thought that we had no chance in the last World Cup but we made it to the final again!
Of course the money has to be on NZ to win unless they <cough, splutter, cough>
Sorry DD, been out all day;
can you find any quotes to show Ireland were offside
Here you go;
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b013cwz0/Rugby_Union_2011_2012_Scotland_v_Ireland/
Starts at about 0mins 2secs and goes on until about 80mins.
(That was an olive branch/joke btw, please don't produce a long reply,refuting any wrong doing on Ireland's part)
So you can't find any quotes then. Fair enough. I might watch that display of Scotch ineptitude at rucking if I can be bothered but it's unlikely. 🙂
deadlydarcy, you must have been born in Llanelli?
deadlydarcy, you must have been born in Llanelli?
Only if I was unlucky Idle, but sadly no, Irish by birth, Munster by the grace of whoever 😛
When are the teams listed for the Wales match? It is not Henson v Tuilangi I want to see, I think Henson would knock him over,and have too much in his locker(next to the fake tan and hair wax) to make it anything except an uncomfortable day for an (as yet) raw player out of position.It would be the battle between Gav and Flutey I would like to see.I would imagine Tindall will get his turn this week however.
Henson usually plays (and has always for Walespart from his games at 10 and 15)) 12 so would be up against Flutey, however the way defences work as was seen with Roberts hammering Tuilagi a few times last week and Henson running about with Tait all those years ago 12 often ends up defending against a 13. Potentially Hensons passing game might cause problems for Tuilagi in defence. All will be a mute point if Henson still looks shy of contact as he did against Fiji.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2011/aug/09/danny-cipriani-melbourne-rebels
Melbourne, are on what is officially termed a development tour, but Friday's game will be watched by the Wales coaching team, including Warren Gatland and Shaun Edwards, who have released Gareth Delve to play.It means that the No8 is certain not to figure in Saturday's second World Cup warm-up match against England at Cardiff and having missed the first at Twickenham, suggests that Delve has become a more peripheral figure in Welsh plans. It had seemed otherwise when he was rushed out to join their second training camp in Poland having only just arrived in Britain.
****in hell that pisses me off.
Tindall captain...will resume his midfield partnership with Shontayne Hape.Toby Flood is to return at fly-half, while Saracens scrum-half Richard Wigglesworth comes in for Danny Care.
Ben Foden and Chris Ashton will be handed their first starts of the summer, with Mark Cueto retaining his place on the left wing.
In the pack, Easter, Tom Wood and Hendrie Fourie will form a new-look back row, while Alex Corbisiero, Steve Thompson and Dan Cole are to be named as the front row.
Courtney Lawes has recovered from the neck injury he sustained during a trial match last month to return to the second row, where he will partner Louis Deacon.
It is understood that there will be no place in the match 22 for Gloucester wing Charlie Sharples or Harlequins wing Ugo Monye.
The headline change to the Wales side will see Gavin Henson return at inside centre, with Jamie Roberts switching to 13.
James Hook, fit again after a shoulder injury, will start at full-back while Rhys Priestland continues at fly-half, having deputised impressively for Stephen Jones, who was forced to withdraw moments before kick-off last Saturday with a calf injury.
Lions prop Adam Jones returns at tighthead prop while Luke Charteris comes into the second row in place of Bradley Davies.
GAVIN Henson is poised to start for Wales against England on Saturday — with James Hook expected to line up at full-back.And Lloyd Burns and Luke Charteris are expected to feature in a pack that looks likely to contain four Dragons.
Warren Gatland was set to announce the changes when he named his team at lunchtime today.
For Henson, it is all or nothing time, the gilt-edged chance he has been waiting for to book his World Cup ticket.
He sat out the 23-19 defeat against Martin Johnson's side at Twickenham when Jamie Roberts, Jonathan Davies and Scott Williams all sought to advance their claims.
But, according to a well-placed source, Henson has apparently looked "a class apart" in training.
Gatland is unlikely to take all four centres but in Henson's favour is his ability to operate as a playmaker, allied to vast experience that has seen him feature in two Grand Slams.
But he still has to impress Gatland in a game situation and that is why the match in Cardiff this weekend will be of huge importance.
It will also be a big game for Hook. The gifted Perpignan-bound utility back would doubtless have preferred to feature at fly-half but Priestland has made a major impression in the pivotal role and is pushing hard to be considered first choice for the World Cup opener against South Africa, with Stephen Jones continuing to be sidelined by the calf problem he sustained during the warm-up for last Saturday's game.
With Jamie Roberts and Jonathan Davies making the running at centre, and Henson back in the frame, Hook finds himself being considered for the No. 15 role, where Gatland also has Lions Test man Lee Byrne at his disposal.
Former Cross Keys hooker Burns is due to come in for his first start, after Huw Bennett set the bar high at hooker last weekend, while Charteris is in line to feature in a pack that is tipped to include fellow Dragon Dan Lydiate and Sam Warburton.
Wales (possible): J. Hook; G. North, J. Roberts, G. Henson, S. Williams; R. Priestland, M. Phillips; P. James, L. Burns, C. Mitchell, L. Charteris, A. W. Jones, D. Lydiate, T. Faletau, S. Warburton (capt).
If that front five is true it could get very messy for Wales, although the first article from the telegraph suggests Adam Jones back at 3 which would be a positive. It looks increasingly likely that Byrne and Rees (maybe Hibbard as well) are crocked and wont be going Lloyd Burns is not ready. Suggest to me that Faletau must be likely to go ahead of Powell, someone should tell the selectors there are not motorways for him to escape down in golf buggies in NZ.
Wales:
James Hook; George North; Jamie Roberts, Gavin Henson; Shane Williams; Rhys Priestland, Mike Phillips; Paul James, Lloyd Burns, Craig Mitchell, Luke Charteris, Alun Wyn Jones, Dan Lydiate, Sam Warburton, Toby Faletau
Replacements: Huw Bennett, Ryan Bevington, Josh Turnbull, Justin Tipuric, Tavis Knoyle, Scott Williams, Aled Brew
England:
Ben Foden (Northampton); Chris Ashton (Northampton), Mike Tindall (Gloucester, capt), Shontayne Hape (London Irish), Mark Cueto (Sale); Toby Flood (Leicester), Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens); Alex Corbisiero (London Irish), Steve Thompson (Wasps), Dan Cole (Leicester); Louis Deacon (Leicester), Courtney Lawes (Northampton); Tom Wood (Northampton), Hendre Fourie (Sale), Nick Easter (Harlequins).
Replacements: Lee Mears (Bath), Matt Stevens (Saracens), Tom Palmer (Stade Francais), James Haskell (Ricoh Black Rams), Danny Care (Harlequins), Charlie Hodgson (Saracens), Matt Banahan (Bath).
That welsh front 5 is going to be destroyed, still at least I get to swoon over Gav 😆
Is there something in the england contracts that means they have to have a donkey playing somewhere?
still at least I get to swoon over Gav
It'll provide a whole page worth of posts in itself. Will he get a full game? 🙂