[Closed] Rugby Thread 2017/18.

its now the top 3 in each conference to go into Europe -

This is a step in the right direction but with 7 in each conference 1 in each cannot qualify as they are SA and another 1 is a hopless Italian team that leaves 3 from 5 with another best loser. Still too many games will be lacking bite and with glasgo play edinburgh how many times? It still means Glasgow can make hay v Edinburgh to qualify. Its all too contrived.

idlejohn - you think the welsh have less opportunities for sponsorship that the scots?

AA - its not about making it a junior league - its about using your money wisely and developing players. With the budgets we have in the pro 12 we simply cannot afford 30 top notch players. ~Glasgow spend their money on a wide squad not a few stars - so Glasgow can generally remain competitive in all competitions. spend all your money on a dozen stars then you can't afford a competitive squad. with a playing budget of around 4 million we cannot afford a dozen players on half a million each and still have a competitive squad

You say you want better - but what option is? a welsh only league of 8 or so teams? the ap are not going to let you in and a british and irish league is a non starter a both options would mean some english teams dropping out of the top flight.

I think you are missing the cold hard fact that the English teams don't want you AA.

As I have said many times I expect you are right, but what will happen to the Scots teams if pro rugby in Wales dies?

Glasgow are an example of how to grow a club from scratch, I don't know why the WRU is getting it so wrong.

This. Glasgow is a football town and didn't ever have a top flight club. Until 3 years ago they didn't even have their own ground. Now they have had to put up more stands as they sold out the 5000 seats regularly and now are selling out 7000. all this on a similar budget to the welsh teams. ( certainly less a few years ago, perhaps a little more now)

anagallis_arvensis - Member

As I have said many times I expect you are right, but what will happen to the Scots teams if pro rugby in Wales dies?

We would survive but be damaged. the pro 14 would survive. I would expect some more european teams to join. Perhaps a couple of georgian ones, romanian ones, maybe Germany and spain., Maybe even the USA / canada

With the budgets we have in the pro 12 we simply cannot afford 30 top notch players.

No shit Sherlock, so why go watch it?

Glasgow spend their money on a wide squad not a few stars

Is the implication that the Welsh teams are packed full of star players? Who are they I've missed them.

so Glasgow can generally remain competitive in all competitions

6th in last years Pro12 was a piss poor effort and they didnt get far in the Champions Cup either.

You say you want better - but what option is? a welsh only league of 8 or so teams?

If we cannot be competitive in Europe then yes..maybe not 8 though but make it a proper youth development league.

all this on a similar budget to the welsh teams. ( certainly less a few years ago, perhaps a little more now)

Can you tell me what the budgets are? A couple of years ago the Welsh teams had lower budgets than even the Italians. I doubt it's improved.

Its been done to death. Aa put some figures up earlier in this thread but its a bit comparing apples to oranges as nbo transparant figures are disclosed. The welsh teams have significantly more than the italians, around the same as the scots and a bit less than the top 3 irish. the scots were the poor relations a few years ago but have now caught up with the welsh and mabe overtaken them slightly.

Its around 4 million a year on player saleries perhaps a bit more. remember that some welsh players are partly paid for by the WRU

the welsh have never been less funded than ther italians.

the welsh have never been less funded than ther italians.

We don't know the real figures so I'm not going to argue. 🙂

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/how-much-funding-welsh-rugby-12405682.amp

Three Welsh regions on 5, Glasgow on 5.1. Not a funding gap really.

Remember that I am not really worried about the gap between Wales and Scotland as we dont lose players to Scottish teams and we do pretty much as well if not better than them anyway. Thats not the issue.

How are yo ever going to match the 10 million plus of the top ap teams or the 15 millionplus of the french?

As a_a says, the main issue is how to compete with, for instance, French teams on a 10m budget. Interesting figures though.

How are yo ever going to match the 10 million plus of the top ap teams or the 15 millionplus of the french?

We cant thats why its dying a slow death and why I'd rather see welsh teams play other welsh teams in a development league and then let the top welsh players go abroad.
I watched The Dregs play Edinburgh infront of 250 people in Edinburgh and it was shite, folliwed by Scarlets destroy Zebre away whilst resting their best players..whats the point.

Does anyone else think the refereeing of the breakdown (particularly rucks) has been really inconsistent in AP this weekend?

I know it's early days in term of the law changes but both players and referees seem to be unclear on what's required - Friday's game was possibly the worst with players yards offside but all 4 games I've seen have had examples of inconsistent reffing.

On a separate point I also think Schalk Brits was right to feel hard done by when he gave away a penalty after the Bath the scrum half deliberately passed the ball into him - that's really negative rugby that shouldn't be rewarded imo.

3500 was the actual attendance

Its only the welsh wqho complain about ther pro 14. No one else even the couple of italian fans I am in contact with

Do you really think tyhe ap teams do not rotate? Glasgow do not play weakened sides anyway - rotating their 30 first team players. Its not really a weakened team they send even for the italians. the only irreplaceable player is ickle jonny - and he is out injured. every other position glasgow have at least 2 plyers of similar standard. thats my point. the welsh teams have a first 15 plus subs, glasgow, Leinster etc have 30 first teamplayers so can rotate without being weakened

Does anyone else think the refereeing of the breakdown (particularly rucks) has been really inconsistent in AP this weekend?

How dare you talk about actual rugby..

Didnt see any AP but the SA ref in the Edinburgh v Dregs games was very good I thought but that idiot who did Scarlets Zebre was shit and the difference in the way the breakdown was reffed was marked.

Talking about rugby 😉 Glasgow have mad McMata the weegie from Fiji back! ~can he do his magic again?

I agree about the SA ref - I thought him very good.

anagallis_arvensis - Member

How dare you talk about actual rugby..

Sorry - didn't mean to interrupt an AA / TJ arguathon...

Its aninteresting debate is it not? It is to me. 🙂 However it has run its course perhaps. I am seeking to understand why the welsh fans seem to view the pro 14 so negatively

So how about mad Mc Mata? ( Niko Matowalo)

I am seeking to understand why the welsh fans seem to view the pro 14 so negatively

It's not something I've noticed in my day to day conversations about rugby. Most of the really keen fans watch more than Pro 14 games so can compare. (We tend to be negative about the awful performances of three quarters of the Welsh teams every year though.) I don't know anyone who watches the AP in preference to the Pro 14. Is it just an internet 'thing'?

every other position glasgow have at least 2 plyers of similar standard.

Sorry Fin Russel and Jackson are a similar standard? Are you on crack?

Still waiting for some evidence that the welsh regions spend all their money on a few star players cause the welsh are well stupid innit like! Show us ewer sauces!

Scarlets obviously blew their budget on Hadley Parkes and Taigde Byrne. Davies is their only real star player, 1/2p was no doubt got on the cheap as his star had fallen and Toulon ****ed him.
Ospreys have AWJ who I dont think has wanted to move away and Biggar is leaving and Webb too maybe
Blues have...... Captain Sam who given the fact he is perma crocked I doubt many would want him.
Its hardly star studded.

Edit.

Hang on forgot The Dragons they have...... er no stars

I don't know anyone who watches the AP in preference to the Pro 14

Me neither, I dont watch AP. Watch a lot of Pro14. Doesnt make it that good or sustainable though.

anagallis_arvensis - Member

every other position glasgow have at least 2 plyers of similar standard.

Sorry Fin Russel and Jackson are a similar standard? Are you on crack?

Jackson is there as a 15 only - back up to Hoggba. Back up 10s are Horne who is not as good as Russell but a handy player and can play the same gameplan which is the key thing. Hastings is the 3rd 10 but will probably overtake Horne this year and looks to be a superb player and could well be better than Russell in a couple of years

Still waiting for some evidence that the welsh regions spend all their money on a few star players

I don't know anyone who watches the AP in preference to the Pro 14. Is it just an internet 'thing'?

I do, but I'm English. When I've caught some of the Pro 12/14 I've always been surprised by the crowds or lack of. Even Worcester manage 7,000 or so.

Jackson is there as a 15 only - back up to Hoggba

The point still stands then but with now with massive ****en bells on it!

maybe its just bad rfecruitment.

I think thats true with Ospreys but not the others. You are also talking like Glasgow and Edinburgh are better than their welsh counter parts. Results suggest there not. Glasgow finished below Scarlets and Ospreys and only just above Cardiff. Edinburgh beat Dragons and the two Italians only and their budget is way higher than the Dregs!

The point falls as the back up 10s are a lot better than Jackson! Even if Jackson has grown a huge beard. Horne has played 10 for Scotland. He is the second best 10 in Scotland after Russell and as I said can play the same gameplan. Hastings played 10 at age group, captained at age group and is going to be very good indeed - perhaps better than Russell. 10 for Glasgow is not a worry at all. When Russell goes south at the end of the season I expect Hastings to step right into his shoes thats 3 international standard 10s glasgow have to go with 4 international standard 9s. I think they should stop being so greedy and give some to Edinburgh. We have meatball and Tovey at 10 FFS

The point falls as the back up 10s are a lot better than Jackson!

OK I'll have some of what you are smoking if Jackson is as good a 15 as Hogg. You should change his wki page

When Russell goes south at the end of the season I expect Hastings to step right into his shoes thats 3 international standard 10s glasgow

You Scots have certainly come on a lot since you tried to poach McShingler. I expect to see Glasgow win something this season!

On the plus side this thread will make me more interested in the Scarlets games v glasgow and Edinburgh!!!

tis true AA - some great young players coming thru now. Fruits of the academy / age group systems working. I still worry that some of these guys don't actually have a huge amount of playing time under their belts but certainly the dark days seem to have gone at least for a bit.

Another couple of names to watch for this season. Matt fagerson - Zanders brother - a back row with pace ( Glasgow) ( there is a 3rd brother who is supposed to be better than both) and Kinghorn at 15 ( edinburgh) who I think will be better than Hogg in a year or two. Hoyland may make a mark as well at wing

anagallis_arvensis - Member

On the plus side this thread will make me more interested in the Scarlets games v glasgow and Edinburgh!!!

Against Glasgow maybe. Faint signs are appearing that Edinburgh might become competitive but Glasgow are the scots team to beat. Edinburgh have been pish for years now

Kinghorn has looked good V Dregs and Blues big step up needed to play at international level though.

Yup - only a young man but plays well. Its only his first full pro season although he did get drafted in for a few games last year. If he is this good at 20 how good could he become? a lot of these guys are just stepping up from age group rugby. Matt Fagerson is 19 IIRC.

Think brits was right to be annoyed as he was crouched and out of the way of the pass, albeit in the line.

It's a really annoyance of mine the number of times the retreating player passes through the 9/10 channel at just the right time to slow the attack.

I just cant understand what happend to straight put in from last season and why refs cant spot half a team offside at kick offs..its all teams

straight put in is really obviously not happening. Anyone seen any props strike for the ball yet?

Off side at all kicks?

The KO are so blatant it's stupid

I was trying to be less negative thm!!!
Kick offs are so obvious though.
High tackles seem to be making a comeback too. Some Zebre player tried to pull Habberfields head off yesterday. Ref missed it, fair enough that happens, tv replayed it but the video ref must have popped out for a pint at that point. Was only a pen and a word but whats the point of video refs?

I'm not sure thats the case.

The derbies are very well attended so each countries fans back their team. Its big problem for me is the lack of relegation and lack of competition for Euro Cup spots.

On another note, one negative for the AP which I have noticed is the standard of refereeing. It's been bloody awful so far.

wrtecker - as far as I can see every leagues fans complain about the reffing - I think its an impossible task really and overall our ref's do a very difficult job well

The Pro14 lacks impartial refs which leads to problems, mostly imagined but things like the Scottish video refs intervention on the Dragons try at Edinburgh or Leinster having an Irish ref, two irish touch judges and an irish video ref cant be good.

Just watched the ap highlights. 3 penalty tries for collapsed mauls. Not seen that so often. all were right tho. Nice to see Exeter playing well and scoring and its interesting how much more entertaining the ap is compared to a few years ago with much more attacking play and tries being scored. Is it bonus points that have created this or what?

anyone else on BT Sport website cant see any videos on the Rugby page (or any sport page for that matter).

I just get a blank frame:
[img] [/img]

AA - usually the ref is from another nation its just the TMOs that don't travel?