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[Closed] Rugby thread 2016/2017

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Hansen has fired a few barbs re Gatland's comments about the AB charge down tactics.

They learnt that from the dirty scots, see Scottish rugby true world leaders!!


 
Posted : 26/06/2017 4:50 pm
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AA - we learnt it from the oirish!


 
Posted : 26/06/2017 5:01 pm
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Who'd have thought NZ would deliberately target breaking a key Irish player, it's not like they have form or anything. 🙄


 
Posted : 26/06/2017 5:12 pm
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Farrells kicking has not been that good ever IIRC lowest % of any of the 6N kickers

True, he had a poor % in the 6N this season, but overall his kicking record is prety darn good for Eng/Lions/Saracens. I think I posted the comparative records in this thread at some point.

He's also the sort of kicker you'd trust to get that last minute winning kick - like Wilkinson.


 
Posted : 26/06/2017 6:16 pm
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true namastebuzz. Whereas if it was Russell despite his high % recently you would be hiding behind the sofa peeking thru your fingers


 
Posted : 26/06/2017 6:55 pm
 DanW
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Just watched the first Test again and NZ, particularly the front 5, were brutal. Lots of off the ball, lots of high or very very borderline tackles, some pretty hefty tackles off the ball and blocking... I think their street smarts was another thing that threw the Lions. I'm not so delusional to think our boys are angels but they had a going over. AWJ took a hefty knock to the head early on too which must have made the rest of the game a bit of a blur

I think it was Greenwood that said a few years ago that what people don't realise about a lot of the NZ legends is they are not only phenomenal rugby players but have a genuine streak of nastiness on the pitch. Pretty sure his example at the time was Nonu, saying he couldn't think of any other centre anywhere else so feared to line up against, but also so skillful and so nice off the pitch. Now, where did our mercenary centre leave that arm guard? 😀


 
Posted : 26/06/2017 9:15 pm
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Everyone knows NZ are dirty ****eys especially at home, so no Lion should be surprised. Its how you combat it that's the problem especially as the refs have a bias towards NZ at home. Probably the only way is to meet fire with fire, that big hit by Ben Te'o on Sonny Bill needs to happen more often. Plus the Lions need to try and isolate the NZ 9 and 10 and hit them hard, maybe 😉


 
Posted : 26/06/2017 9:35 pm
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Given what they did to Ireland in the second test in November I would love to see the Lions really go out to beat them up legally.


 
Posted : 26/06/2017 9:44 pm
 DanW
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Everyone knows NZ are dirty ****eys especially at home

Don't get me wrong, this isn't news to me, but they were really going at it that first Test. A lot was obvious watching first time but there was probably 4 times as much that jumped out watching it again!


 
Posted : 26/06/2017 10:25 pm
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Lions V Hurricanes turning into a good game. Lions with a try made in Scotland. Frodo and Tennessee Tam !


 
Posted : 27/06/2017 9:08 am
 DezB
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Superb half from the Lions. Kept Aso completely out of the game. Thought Nowell was good at fullback, but that didn't last long.
Reckon Lions have got this.


 
Posted : 27/06/2017 9:24 am
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Thought you'd like that TJ!

Biggar close to pissing the ref off though at the end of the first half screaming at him for a scrum. Needs to be careful because they've had the run of the green so far.

Better physicality from the Lions today; Nowell has been busy, Henderson with a lovely offload, North actually getting involved now he's in the centres (although he's struggling a tad defensively but that's to be understood), Laidlaw has been pretty sharp too.


 
Posted : 27/06/2017 9:24 am
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Lions with a try made in Scotland and Texas.


 
Posted : 27/06/2017 9:28 am
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Tennessee IIRC AA. Hence Tennessee Tam. Born in Nashville.


 
Posted : 27/06/2017 9:32 am
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Hmmmm. Not a great start to the second half.


 
Posted : 27/06/2017 9:35 am
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Tennessee IIRC AA

All those red neck states are the same to me!!


 
Posted : 27/06/2017 9:51 am
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Lawes off after 53 minutes - bring wrapped up ready for the second test?

Henderson has been very good tonight though, especially in the loose.


 
Posted : 27/06/2017 9:52 am
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Kruis not having a good start to his bench appearance. Looks like the end of the season may well be catching up with him because he's had a good few seasons with Sarries and England.


 
Posted : 27/06/2017 9:57 am
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I don't think Kruis has been the player he was before his long lay-off. He was the one pic that I thought a Scot should have gone instead of. Before he was injured he was a cert, I didn't think he has reached that standard again yet.


 
Posted : 27/06/2017 10:05 am
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I don't think Gatland appreciates Henderson. He has been more effective than Lawes or Kruis.

I reckon Seymour is also underrated but he's not going to oust Watson or Daly.


 
Posted : 27/06/2017 10:08 am
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AA - North at 13. What do you think? I have seen him play a few times there and he seems more effective

Can anyone explain why Russell was brought over if he is not going to get any game time? If its just a sub for the midweek games then surely someone else could fill in so Sexton / Farrell does not have to sit on the bench midweek?


 
Posted : 27/06/2017 10:14 am
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Looks like squeaky bum time for the last 10mins or so especially a man down.


 
Posted : 27/06/2017 10:14 am
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Henderson playing himself into contention then back out of it again?


 
Posted : 27/06/2017 10:15 am
 DezB
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[i]squeaky bum time for the last 10mins[/i]

No kidding!


 
Posted : 27/06/2017 10:17 am
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Can anyone explain why Russell was brought over if he is not going to get any game time? If its just a sub for the midweek games then surely someone else could fill in so Sexton / Farrell does not have to sit on the bench midweek?

Absolutely - He should have got a run from the start in this game. Playing with Laidlaw he could have offered a bit diffent than Biggar does.


 
Posted : 27/06/2017 10:22 am
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the cream of the British Isles...you are having a laugh!


 
Posted : 27/06/2017 10:23 am
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Biggar needs to wind his neck in.

Silly penalties are killing are killing the Lions and just giving opportunities to the Hurricanes who look closer to providing a bit of magic to win the game.


 
Posted : 27/06/2017 10:25 am
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My feeling is Gatland does not want to play him in case he plays a blinder and shows Gatland as being wrong for not taking him in the first place. I still say tho Russell would be ineffective without his pals around him - but this game he would at least have had Laidlaw and Seymour


 
Posted : 27/06/2017 10:26 am
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My feeling is Gatland does not want to play him in case he plays a blinder and shows Gatland as being wrong for not taking him in the first place.

Yeah Gatland doesnt want to win!!


 
Posted : 27/06/2017 10:30 am
 DezB
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Superb game that.


 
Posted : 27/06/2017 10:35 am
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AA - why not give him a run in this game then? I simply don't understand it. If all youneed is injury cover for the midweek games as it appears with no subs this game then surely someone in the squad already could be an emergency 10? Laidlaw even - he has played internationals at 10.


 
Posted : 27/06/2017 10:36 am
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Can anyone explain why Russell was brought over if he is not going to get any game time? If its just a sub for the midweek games then surely someone else could fill in

You have ansered your own question.


 
Posted : 27/06/2017 10:37 am
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Very enjoyable. Some good performances as well, both starting locks especially and I thought Nowell did well too. Not many chances for JJ or North though.


 
Posted : 27/06/2017 10:38 am
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AA - if its Russell gets a call up simply to sit on the bench midweek then why bother? If Biggar had failed his HAI in this game then laidlaw could have gone to ten.

Tell you one thing - Gatland has failed his audition for the NZ job 😉


 
Posted : 27/06/2017 10:42 am
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He didnt pick a bigger squad as then not everyone could have been given a proper shot before the tests. He always planned to bring in new players to be bench sitters and the coaches of the national teams were informed beforehand.
Laidlaw is a shit 9 I dread to think what sort of 10 he would have been.
You can argue it either way but a bigger squad where all the players cannot start a game before tge tests would have been bad for squad moral.


 
Posted : 27/06/2017 10:46 am
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He was an OK 10. About Biggar standard 😉 Surely that would do tho in the event of an injury to biggar in a midweek game?


 
Posted : 27/06/2017 10:50 am
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And who covers 10 from the bench?


 
Posted : 27/06/2017 10:56 am
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He was an OK 10. About Biggar standard

BIL Dan Biggar to you!!!


 
Posted : 27/06/2017 10:56 am
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In this game in Biggar goes off with an HAI laidlaw goes to 10 and whoever the replacement 9 is comes on?

It just seems a waste of everyones time to bring in a player like Russell and not even give him a chance.


 
Posted : 27/06/2017 10:58 am
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Brother in law? I didn't know he was your brother in law AA.

Anyway - how about North at 13? He has played there a few times and I thought he looked good in this game


 
Posted : 27/06/2017 10:59 am
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You guys....

Feels a bit of a disappointment to draw the game after having built a good lead in the first half. The injuries caused a few issues (JJ was limited st 12 but has been a bit of a disappointment this tour). Exciting game though.


 
Posted : 27/06/2017 11:01 am
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Anyway - how about North at 13? He has played there a few times and I thought he looked good in this game

He's ok but defence suspect if opposition are not stupid enough to run straightvat him.
13 is the key defence decision maker in the welsh set up (and Lions). This is not s strength either!


 
Posted : 27/06/2017 11:12 am
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So this really tells us who's now out of the test teams and who's on the bench.

Of that lot, my thoughts are:

Lawes -in with Itoje
Marler - Bench
AWJ - Bench but fighting with Henderson
Nowell - Bench
Stander - Bench
Kruis - out
JJ - out
North - out
Haskell - out
1/2p - out
Scotting players - out 😉
I'd give Farrell another chance to steady himself but I'd say Teo needs to be in the centres, so him & Sexton exchange.

Thoughts?

I'm mixed about Hooker - George is a better carrier but Best slowed down a lot of ball in the first half that I saw (as did Cole).


 
Posted : 27/06/2017 12:32 pm
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Nowell - Bench

Why didnt he go off injured?

1/2p was a late addition to todays bench so I expect he will make the bench unless they gamble on a winger. Not sure Nowel has dine enough to be that winger.

I'm mixed about Hooker - George is a better carrier but Best slowed down a lot of ball in the first half that I saw (as did Cole).

Owens is next in line, cant see Best jumping ahead. George was good last week.


 
Posted : 27/06/2017 12:41 pm
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AA - fair enough on North. He seems to get into the game more at centre in attack. Why is his tackling not so good for a big guy? Has he been to the Tim visser school [s]tackling[/s] flapping at a player when he runs past


 
Posted : 27/06/2017 12:52 pm
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His tackling is fine its his positioning thats dodgy.
Also at 13 he'd need a good passer at 12 to put him in holes from 13. Wales dont have that but we do have a good 13 in Davies but few wingers hence North and Williams with 1/2p at 15. If we had another winger we could drop 1/2p and have Liam at 15 but we dont.


 
Posted : 27/06/2017 12:56 pm
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My feeling is Gatland does not want to play him in case he plays a blinder and shows Gatland as being wrong for not taking him in the first place.

BIL Fin Russel 4 touches turned the ball over twice and threw a bouncing ball at Seymours knees with another. His long 22 drop out was ok though!!


 
Posted : 27/06/2017 7:22 pm
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He is your brother in law as well?

He was never going to shine ws he given a few mins as an HAI sub. I even missed his Cameo!


 
Posted : 27/06/2017 7:23 pm
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I wouldnt rush to catch up!!


 
Posted : 27/06/2017 7:40 pm
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As a side question; does anybody know what each Lion will get paid for being on the tour?


 
Posted : 27/06/2017 11:31 pm
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I've got in my head its £70k plus win bonus. Not sure if the bench warmers that have been there for two weeks and not played will get that or not.....I bet they'll no doubt have out earned me in the last two weeks mind!


 
Posted : 27/06/2017 11:37 pm
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So not much over £70k then 😀 shows how much it will generate in revenue though.


 
Posted : 28/06/2017 4:57 am
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I heard that the unions get this money not the players directly. Hence all those welsh journeymen give a nice sum of money to the WRU. could be bollox


 
Posted : 28/06/2017 8:37 am
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Hence all those welsh journeymen give a nice sum of money to the WRU.

I doubt its true but I think they deserve it given that they were the only union who let their coaches have time off to coach the Lions


 
Posted : 28/06/2017 8:46 am
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I have never been able to get my head around why Gatland needed a year off to do so


 
Posted : 28/06/2017 8:49 am
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I doubt its true but I think they deserve it given that they were the only union who let their coaches have time off to coach the Lions

Yeah...cheers for that! 😀


 
Posted : 28/06/2017 8:59 am
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I'm beginnning to believe that with Lawes & Itoje to defend the fringes and later Henderson to do the same on for Lawes, Plan A could actually work with the same backs as last week pushing up. We suffocate them, avoid the fringe detriment from last week and it starts to look like a commendable plan. I would like to see Faletau attack from the base a bit more though.

Let's see eh.


 
Posted : 28/06/2017 9:38 am
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I have never been able to get my head around why Gatland needed a year off to do so

To work on the exhilarating, attacking game plan? 😆


 
Posted : 28/06/2017 9:43 am
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Not directly about the "geography 6" but definitely true that each union gets £50k per player selected fir the tour-not sure about legitimate call ups post departure date.


 
Posted : 28/06/2017 9:52 am
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BIL Fin Russel 4 touches turned the ball over twice and threw a bouncing ball at Seymours knees with another. His long 22 drop out was ok though!!

When evaluating players it's very important to look at the smallest example of their playing performances you can find.

Taking into account the fact that he was the most important factor in beating Australia would be ignorant and a mistake only people lacking in rugby watching expertise would make. Afterall, the current Australia team might as well be Zebre compared to the might of the side that faced the Lions four years ago!

Contrary to what TJ says, I don't think that Russell needs specific players around him. I think any players who can provide close support and play what's in front of them as opposed to sticking to the game plan at all costs would do fine.


 
Posted : 28/06/2017 10:03 am
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Fair enough Bruce - its just that Russell plays in such a different way to the other 10s on tour and he has spent all his pro career playing with the same guys pretty much that those guys are used to his way of playing. Its not as off the cuff as it seems tho.


 
Posted : 28/06/2017 10:09 am
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You've got to remember that the Glasgow players had to get used to playing around Nico Matawalu and Leone Nakawara before Russell became a fixture in the squad. Compared to them Russell must seem positively boring 🙂


 
Posted : 28/06/2017 10:17 am
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Yeah...cheers for that!

At least agent Howlercwont have ruined many Scots!!


 
Posted : 28/06/2017 11:04 am
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AA;Bearing in mind some of the appointments by the SRU, he was probably interviewed for the Scotland job...Not as if we don't have previous for hiring the WRU'S leavings.


 
Posted : 28/06/2017 11:25 am
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Given that we hare looking very much like a 3 nil stuffing in NZ playing a fairly conventional NH style of play would we have been better going with a young fast skillful and above all else daring lineup? Scarlets won the pro 12 like this, Exeter the ap.

Of course that could have meant a worse stuffing but it could also have challenged the NZ in ways they weren't expecting.

Rob Baxter would have been my choice for coach

A lightweight mobile back row to challenge for their ball and cause trouble all over the park. Playing 2x7s ie Tips and Watson with Barclay at 8. Russell or Ford at 10, Ringrose in the centres. these sorts of guys

Go on AA - take me to pieces 🙂


 
Posted : 28/06/2017 12:54 pm
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Cotter for me,he managed to polish the Scottish turd, there can be no better reference.


 
Posted : 28/06/2017 12:56 pm
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Both those guys werent available.
The predictions of doom started out with not wining any games.
Playing a different gameplan would no doubt need more time to achieve. I dont think Gatland is that great and I'm hoping he stays in NZ but I dont think another coach would have done much better. Maybe but I guess we will never know.


 
Posted : 28/06/2017 1:33 pm
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Playing 2x7s ie Tips and Watson with Barclay at 8

Dear god no POM, SOB and Faletau got ruined physically, those 3 would need the ****ing space shuttle to get them out of orbit at 1/2 time!!


 
Posted : 28/06/2017 1:36 pm
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I dont think another coach would have done much better. Maybe but I guess we will never know.

It may appear that the 2021 Lions will be Eddie Jones swansong?


 
Posted : 28/06/2017 1:51 pm
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I'm beginnning to believe that with Lawes & Itoje to defend the fringes and later Henderson to do the same on for Lawes, Plan A could actually work with the same backs as last week pushing up. We suffocate them, avoid the fringe detriment from last week and it starts to look like a commendable plan

That's a great plan! I'm sure Steve Hansen won't have thought about any of that and I'm sure the All Blacks won't have learned anything from last week at all. They'll probably just do exactly the same as they did and we'll outfox them completely.

We're on the brink of history - a come from behind series win in New Zealand...... 😉


 
Posted : 28/06/2017 7:19 pm
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The funny thing is last week they tore us a new arsehole up front, next week when we tighten up eound the fringes they'll go wide.


 
Posted : 28/06/2017 9:27 pm
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This morning for Gatland to name the team isn't it?


 
Posted : 29/06/2017 4:20 am
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Yup.

AWJ retains his place (how?), Te'o to the bench with Sexton and Farrell combining (hmmmm....) and Warburton starts in place of POM. Lawes and Nowell make the bench.

L Williams (Wales), A Watson (England), J Davies (Wales), O Farrell, E Daly (both England), J Sexton, C Murray (both Ireland), M Vunipola, J George (both England), T Furlong (Ireland), M Itoje (England), AW Jones, S Warburton (both Wales, capt), S O'Brien (Ireland), T Faletau (Wales).

Replacements: K Owens (Wales), J McGrath (Ireland), K Sinckler, C Lawes (both England), CJ Stander (Ireland), R Webb (Wales), B Te'o, J Nowell (both England).


 
Posted : 29/06/2017 6:37 am
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Te'o gets the axe for not spotting an overlap (according to Gatland). Seems a bit harsh when he managed to go toe to toe with SBW, something that Farrell won't be able to do. Pretty sure he's not the first Lion to butcher a try scoring opportunity this tour.

North on his way home with a dodgy hamstring and the six replacements are packing their bags too. Feel for those guys a bit.


 
Posted : 29/06/2017 6:40 am
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Henderson should be in for AWJ. Other than that a strong team although the ABs may see Farrell as a weak link in the centre.


 
Posted : 29/06/2017 7:31 am
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No way could Henderson play again on saturday. AWJ and Itoje is a very exciting combination but not the one I'd have chosen with the options available I'd have gone with Kruis and Itoje, Itoje and Lawes would seem to lack balance IMO even though those two have been the best locks on tour.
Warburton for POM is fair enough POM was quiet last week and Warburton tasked with tackling hard all day from 6 will add something if he is fit.
Sexton and Faz is the gamble and they do need to try and create, hopefully it will also mean Sexton gets some ball to play with from Murray.

Pleased for Nowel who has fought back from having a complete mare in his first game to the test 23, the bench is certainly one chosen for attack.


 
Posted : 29/06/2017 7:53 am
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AWJ starts and Teo benched? A mistake IMO, we'll be leaking tries first half as SBW runs riot. Clearly a side picked for kick/forwards strategy.

So what we'll see is a first half loss with Teo, Lawes and Nowell on later to try to save the day. Then that finishing team is basically the team to salvage something out of the 3rd test. Gatland has been woo'ed for the Jones "finishers" strategy but team framework is not the same as Englands


 
Posted : 29/06/2017 8:08 am
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No way could Henderson play again on saturday.

Agreed but he should have been withdrawn with Lawes to give that option.

Kruis could have played midweek if Gats knew he was getting axed.


 
Posted : 29/06/2017 8:18 am
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SBW will be licking his lips facing Farrell.


 
Posted : 29/06/2017 8:22 am
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