[Closed] Rugby thread 2016/2017

Well, that other rugby related thread lasted long didn't it 🙁

That's some comment! Especially given some if the claims of Welsh players being world class and tha no English lads would make it into their team

Care to provide any evidence for any of that?

Davies was I reckon the only Lion that can say they outplayed their opposite number and maybe Watson who is class. Teo went toe to toe with SBW but the latters touch of class edges it. SOB was very good but Cane better. Faletau quiet but the Lions had no ball, I expect his tackles stats are stratospheric. Liam made one big error that led to a try.
More dynamism needed. Itoje for AWJ and Sinkler for Furlong. Warbs for POM would be a big call but POM didnt do much to slow the All Blacks juggernaut but is he playing well enough. I'd like to see Faz given more responsibility to kick for territory as Murray controlled things not sure I'd start Webb though.

I'd comment on Dalys Cuthbertesque defence for the first try but I worry for wreckers heart.

Opinions are great aren't they?
The Irish did them, and did them well not very long ago.
A win for the lions is certainly possible.

The problem is that if you swap the front row then you run a risk of losing that platform as well. It was meant to be somewhere that the Lions would pressure the AB's. So you need the trade off of mobility in the front row for a secure ball.Doesn't matter anyway; All Blacks will only get better, the Lions last try just gave false hope to their supporters.Also bear in mind the injuries suffered by the AB's in the first 20.

The Irish did them, and did them well not very long ago.

Who got done over the following week.

They will loose from time to time, but the AB's are comfortably better than every other team.

Where is the best place to see extended highlights or a full replay? The other games have been up pretty quickly on YouTube.

duckman - Member
Kryton57 - Member
Jaco Peyper is having a terrible day so far.
He's been reading the news, and the Lions have suffered because of it.
House!

That must have been it then. Different ref next week; thumping win for the Lions.

You really make yourself look stupid here. Not anywhere did I say imply or link that comment to the Lions loss. It was just a fact I added to the conversation, so stop trying to make it something it isn't.

To get back to common sense, we lost because the AB's are better, there's not a lot more to it than that.

The problem is that if you swap the front row then you run a risk of losing that platform

True but theres no point having a platform if you cant play off it.....

The other games have been up pretty quickly on YouTube.

There's your answer.....

Best commentary bit of the day from Australia/Italy:

"And the Italians say - you little beauty, Benvenuti!"

Who got done over the following week

Canada

Why was POM taken off?

Why was POM taken off?

Wasnt having much impact on the deck and in the loose, I guess they thought Warbs would be with a go. He certainly didnt do anything wrong.

Still we scored the best try so in usual welsh fashion I'm claiming the moral victory.

I missed the match as I'm away with work. That SOB try is awesome!

To win the test we needed to be error free and take our chances. Sounds like we weren't and didn't.

*shudders* I agree with Jambalaya.

*I feel dirty!

Same here!

The errors and substitutions were because the guys were run off their feet! The AB's may not look super flash [i]all[/i] the time but it was non stop control and pressure from them. Running inside shoulders, drawing and passing, slipping the ball out to a supporting runner in the tackle... the Lions were playing catch up and kept guessing all the time.

There was a lot of talk about needing to score tries but before all of that you need territory and control. It would be interesting to see the second row, back row and 9/ 10 for the next Test.

Davies was I reckon the only Lion that can say they outplayed their opposite number and maybe Watson who is class. Teo went toe to toe with SBW but the latters touch of class edges it. SOB was very good but Cane better. Faletau quiet but the Lions had no ball, I expect his tackles stats are stratospheric. Liam made one big error that led to a try.
More dynamism needed. Itoje for AWJ and Sinkler for Furlong. Warbs for POM would be a big call but POM didnt do much to slow the All Blacks juggernaut but is he playing well enough. I'd like to see Faz given more responsibility to kick for territory as Murray controlled things not sure I'd start Webb though.

Agree with most of that.

Not sure about Sinkler starting but you would hope he could see more of the game than today. Could POM, Warbs and Faletau work? Solid but blunted going forwards without O'Brien I guess? Murray gives an excellent escape option and controls well but I think needs Sexton next to him to keep the defence on their toes. Besides a few lines from JD2 we didn't seem to offer anything other than boshing. I'm not convinced Murray/ Farrell is a good balance with what they each offer and realistically I think Farrell was chosen for his goal kicking today with 1/2p swapped out for a more adventurous back 3... I still think Sexton is the way to go at 10.

This says it all lions had to work their arses off to come second!!!
[img] [/img]

I must say, a long hard tour at the end of a long hard season..... You only need to be 2% off your best in rugby to get very exposed. A fit and well drilled Lions squad, together for a long period, could live with the ABs for the full 80. Sadly we don't have that.

TJ - what happened in the Fiji game? Not seen the match, just the result. Was it a big step backwards for a "near full strength" Scotland, or just one of those days?

The AB's may not look super flash all the time but it was non stop control and pressure from them.

What @Dan says. Exactly like the England RWC winning side in 2002 and 2003.

I didn't realise they won it to 2002 as well 😉

Was it a big step backwards for a "near full strength" Scotland, or just one of those days?

Not full strength as they are were missing the like of Hogg and Russell.

From what I've read, the offloading game caused them a lot of issues (masters of their own downfall) but Fiji were very physical and actually kicked their goals!

Judging by the piccy in aa's last post - it was the Mysterons (other extra-terrestrial beings may or may not be available) wot beat us !

TJ - what happened in the Fiji game? Not seen the match, just the result. Was it a big step backwards for a "near full strength" Scotland, or just one of those days?

Toonie mixed up the squad a little and it didnt work. A fair few players missing and it showed. Game control was poor, should of kicked early points and we were awful at the restart. I think Fiji scored right after most restarts in the 2nd half.

End of the day, we should of learned a lot from that, what we did well, what we didnt and who isnt up to the job.

Lawes back for Tuesday. Nowell is named at FB which I'm not sure about; he's up against some quick boys and I'm not sure he's got the pace to be the last line of defence and let's face it he's been caught out a few times so far defensively.

The new call ups are picked en masses again as bench cover.

Lions team for Hurricanes:

Jack Nowell, Tommy Seymour, Jonathan Joseph, Robbie Henshaw, George North, Dan Biggar, Greig Laidlaw, CJ Stander, Justin Tipuric, James Haskell, Courtney Lawes, Iain Henderson, Dan Cole, Rory Best (captain), Joe Marler.

Replacements: Kristian Dacey, Alan Dell, Tomas Francis, Cory Hill, George Kruis, Gareth Davies, Finn Russell, Jared Payne.

Wonder if we will see Lawes come off early to be added to the test 23?

Hurricanes have Savea, Milner Scudder and Jordie Barrett back three!!

Not anywhere did I say imply or link that comment to the Lions loss. It was just a fact I added to the conversation, so stop trying to make it something it isn't

Care the explain what a post on the ref reading the papers and the Lions suffering because of it actually means then? You make more sense when you post drunken rants.

Anyway; for the non-puddingphobics.
Lions tried to play rugby this week; very ungatlandball. Back to what he knows best next week and potentially a bigger thrashing; or stick with trying to play rugby and go down swinging? Does anybody think trying to keep it tight and strangle the life out of NZ will actually work in the Lions favour? NZ had scrum parity against our beefiest front five,where the Lions were meant to have the upper hand.

and I'm not sure he's got the pace to be the last line of defence

If he's not got the pace for 15 then he'll be as much use as tits on a snake on the wing and he's not he's a good player, he'll be fine.

Lions tried to play rugby this week; very ungatlandball.

Agreed;so much for their newly repaired back row being rusty! However the speed in which the AB's use turnover ball is frightening. Still interested to see what the Lions test team looks like when announced on Wed (?) Doesn't matter though; there aren't the players in the squad to turn the series around. As any Scotland fan will tell you "Ye can only pish wi the cock ye hiv." Garland has limited options and all reduce the side in other ways.

[i]Hurricanes have Savea, Milner Scudder and Jordie Barrett back three!![/i]

Looking forward to this one - be closer than it would've been if they'd had their 9 & 10.. Lions to get their last win on the tour..? 🙂

Agreed;so much for their newly repaired back row being rusty!

The ball skills of their pack to offload before or during contact and their running angles to hit the line at space are light years ahead of what we can muster.

Caution to the wind time; Lawes and Itoge and wee angry Quims prop in, oh; and also Sam. Sexton at 10 as only change in the backs.

I think Sam has to start at 6 and be tasked with the same job he was v england in the 6 nations, tackle hard and stop them on the gainline, as should Itoje and Kruis needs a kick up the arse and Lawes to bench. Not sure Marler is the answer as Vunipola carries harder. I'd keep the backs the same but with orders to kick for territory and touch rather than box kick all day. The backs deserve a chance to get the ball and see what they can do.

If North plays a stormer on tuesday he comes onto the bench.

[img] https://m.imgur.com/ws2cHNL?r [/img]

Why does that not work.

https://m.imgur.com/ws2cHNL?r

Sadly nothing will happen.

Sorry; I meant schincler (sp) I forgot there were two angry quins props there.

I split the game into timing it went like this

72mins for the all blacks.
8mins for the loins.
The best team in world sport just got better can you imagine that!
How many handling errors did the the all blacks have 3 or 4?
The loins need to have better attacking set plays,admitted they had several individual magic moments but any opportunities need taking.

[i]Why does that not work.

https://m.imgur.com/ws2cHNL?r [/i]

Noticed that live, thought how the hell ref not see it right in front of him. Now see he glances away just at the wrong moment!

You can't help being offensive once a day can you Duckman, no wonder you've been given a rest so many times. I must be the next in line for you to test out before you get banned again.

You carry on mate, you obviously have a thick skin. I'll not address you anymore, I'd rather talk about rugby so you post away and I'll chose which response(s) to report should I see fit.

🙄

....and we're off again. Nice to see how the Lions team really has united us all 😆

Sorry; I meant schincler (sp) I forgot there were two angry quins props there.

Not to worry, I didnt know he played for quims or maybe I did Adam loves him doesnt he!!
Anyway I agree.

Noticed that live, thought how the hell ref not see it right in front of him. Now see he glances away just at the wrong moment!

Video ref was doing his nails too obviously.

I'll chose which response(s) to report should I see fit.

[img] [/img]

Lol. Like I said, I'm not engaging in an argument with him any longer, I'd prefer to talk rugby.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b08vlh4b/alfie-how-do-you-beat-the-all-blacks
Worth a look!

You can't help being offensive once a day can you Duckman, no wonder you've been given a rest so many times. I must be the next in line for you to test out before you get banned again.

I got a weekend once for creating a new profile called tantrumpedantry to wind up TJ, which he though hilarious.It would appear your defination of offensive is fluid as even THM called you out on your comments after you beat Wales,...but that is filed alongside pudding in your selective memory. So report away...but in the meantime can you clarify how the Lions suffered because the ref read the papers?
Or is that not rugby related?

So....

Scotland V Fiji - I have been away so only just seen the game.

Fiji - best I have seen them play. tightened up their weaknesses in the set piece and kicked their goals

Scotland - the toonbola ( townsends random selections) went a bit wrong. too many backs combos that do not know each other and too many small backs. Good for development for a few guys tho. Piecrust ( pyrgos) looked a bit hesitant, Rhubarb looked out of place at 10 in the second half and whatever Furra Linee ( Horne) is he is not a centre.

good on Fiji - I wish more top teams would go to Fiji to play them. they need the exposure and you could see the good playing in Europe has done for guys like big Naka

Just watched it; they mulched us up front!

The lesson for Scotland is to not just play to our strengths but make a game plan to expose the others weaknesses. We should have slowed it down and played a more trad NH style a bit more

True - one style only gets predictable.

I wish more top teams would go to Fiji to play them.

See also Samoa and Tonga.

NZ have been to Samoa once, in 2015. Australia, England and South Africa just haven't bothered.

In other news, I gather the Kenya v Germany game in Nairobi was a bit good! Finished 29-30, in front of about 10,000 people! Germany are the growing force in the lower levels of international rugby. Watch this space...!

CFH - Scotland did a tour to Fiji a couple of years ago which went down really well and was good development for both sides.

Indeed. Seeing some comments from Samoans about the Welsh trip just now that say the same. Gone down really well with the locals, and great development for a young(ish) touring side.

Just watched the lions game - even worse than I thought from the bits I had read.

I am very confused - why were the lions not contesting the breakdown? why did Murray keep kicking away good ball even turnover ball? I assume under instruction????? they did start to contest the breakdown a bit in the last 20 mins but until then just gave the ABs clean ball on a plate - but in the chiefs game they slowed and spoilt the ball all game.

Loopy Liam the only good thing from the lions - looked dangerous indeed and Hogg would have found it hard to oust him. Still a git tho 😉

AWJ was a complete waste of space. Itoje looked much better when he came on. AWJ was wandering back into the defensive line after a tackle not running back into position so wasn't in the game hardly at all.

Nothing creative in the backs at all - just conventional passes with the odd inside ball. Farrell back to his old self not the player I saw in the warm ups. Not one chip over the top to keep 'em honest, not one runaround / loop. Nothing creative at all from 9-13. Murray looked slow and hesitant - was it because he had no one to pass to?

Itoje, Webb to start next week. Loopy liam the only lion who matched his opposite number

Agreed. Why give the most dangerous attacking players in the world the ball back? My only view on that is that they were hoping for a dropped ball.

And the backs... id hoped the watmups were hiding some magic. But no. Teo should hsve stayed on, and clearly the AB's were targetting Farrell, he was smashed several times.

Of course you target Farrell - its the obvious move. a) sometimes he gets rattled and loses his cool ( he didn't this time) and b) you force him to lie deeper

Having said that I didn't think they did really.

Talking of creativity - Russell on the bench for the dirttrackers gain 🙄

even THM

"Even" ??

Happy for you to leave me out of any further silliness, thank you. Keep it between yourselves.

I am very confused - why were the lions not contesting the breakdown? why did Murray keep kicking away good ball even turnover ball?

The defensive system is strong when there are numbers coming out of the line fast and stopping the ball from spreading. A lot of the pre game hype was about NZ's width and crossfield kicks. NZ read that perfectly and kept it tight most of the time and ran inside shoulders. Once they got over the gain line a few times the defence is scrambling and even harder to compete. Definite game plan from the Lions but slow to adjust/ overwhelmed by the might of NZ's execution

AWJ was a complete waste of space. Itoje looked much better when he came on. AWJ was wandering back into the defensive line after a tackle not running back into position so wasn't in the game hardly at all.

I wouldn't have any objection to Itoje starting but both locks had to get through a sh1t ton of work on the back foot for almost all the game due to the lack of control elsewhere. Symptom of the game not a fault IMO, bit like Kruis and his errors

Nothing creative in the backs at all - just conventional passes with the odd inside ball. Farrell back to his old self not the player I saw in the warm ups. Not one chip over the top to keep 'em honest, not one runaround / loop.

You've just described Sexton. Not how Farrell generally plays

Nothing creative at all from 9-13. Murray looked slow and hesitant - was it because he had no one to pass to?

Hard to be creative when you have no ball. Bigger problem is having the territory and possession to be in the game before the flash stuff. The try was pretty damn good though. Murray's kicking was to plan as he gives an excellent escape option and in the NH you generally have a bit of kicking ping pong after the box kick which ends up with you gaining territory. NZ just kept the ball instead and played in a very un-NH way (unsurprisingly with hindsight I guess). Farrell at 10 would only try to put in the same kick as Murray so why not just get Murray to do it would have been the logic. I'd like to see Sexton at 10 for exactly the reasons you mentioned about keeping the defence honest and guessing

So that was the plan? don't contest the breakdown so you can fan out in defence? Crap gameplan if all it means is NZ get the ball on a plate

IMO two 7s are needed to disrupt the breakdown and slow their ball

AWJ ws just off the pace all game I thought.

I wish more top teams would go to Fiji to play them.
See also Samoa and Tonga.

Indeed the stadium for thecwales samoa game was absolutely jumping was awesome.

I am very confused - why were the lions not contesting the breakdown?

Because Pyper was the ref. DanW you are wasting your time trying explain anything to them. Obviously its all Gatlands fault!

Nice to see the usual having a go at the 10 when its the pack that has been rinsed though, thats aleays a favourite of mine.

Because Pyper was the ref they didn't contest the breakdown? How do you figure that?

Dans explanation actually made a bit of sense and answered my question. Not a tactic I agree with but I can understand it

Because Pyper was the ref they didn't contest the breakdown? How do you figure that?

Pyper is like a lot/most refs the last year or two so very very reluctant to give pens for the jackle, that said POM and his magical elbows were very conspicuous by their absence on saturday. Warburton was certainly giving it a go when he came on but I suppose he had the benefit of watching for the first 50mins.

That's a very good point a_a on the jackle. It has disappeared so much with the way the game is generally refereed now that I didn't even think about it! Anyway, the fanning out is quite a SH style of defence and NZ nailed how to counter it with playing straight off the excellent 9.

In many ways the Lions out thought themselves with the strategy trying to second guess too many things when really I think the best chance is to play really tight, controlled rugby like the previous few games. Easier said than done against the AB's! Trying to play like them however and getting sucked in to their game like happened a bit in the first Test has to be the worst things to do!

Nice to see the usual having a go at the 10 when its the pack that has been rinsed though, thats aleays a favourite of mine.

Not sure if that was aimed at me but I totally agree. If, *big if* the pack actually gets on top in the next Tests then I'd still prefer Sexton in for Farrell. Like I've said before Murray and Farrell are too similar as a pair, much like I think Sexton and Webb are too similar at the other end of the scale. Murray/ Sexton is nicely balanced. But yes, all irrelevant if they are not in the game again with the piggies getting smashed

Aye - differnt refs do penalise differntly for the jackel but many / most seem to still give pens or allow turnovers. Scotland still set up to play this way and it often works well.

anyway - the explanation was helpful.

If, *big if* the pack actually gets on top in the next Tests

This is quite funny...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-40401731

You'd be pretty surprised to end up being offered a room by an all blacks mum!

I'd give Finn Russell a place on the bench. Creative and a good enough kicker to keep the ball in the right places.

That BBC story say's "he works in IT and lives in London" i wonder if has an expensive bike and it on here?

tiggs. Problem is he needs familiar players around him and a game plan built to suit him

Nice to see the usual having a go at the 10 when its the pack that has been rinsed though

Only just caught up with the highlights last night, but while the pack needs strengthening, Farrell was also average to poor. Missed the conversion, missed a few tackles, and due to lack of confidence it meant that the Lions instead of kicking at goal at 50 odd minutes, went for the line out to no avail.

For me I'd start with Sexton as the 10 next match. Keep the rest of the backs as they started on Saturday (albeit keep Te'o on as long as possible). Pack wise hard to know how to change it up for the positives, Warbs might help slow ball down. But tricky to get the right balance in the pack.

The pack is a bit of a worry - this was supposed to be the pack to dominate proceedings as they had in the warm up games. It didn't work though but some of the players seemed to have a really bad day - Kruis and AWJ were so far off their best and were dominated by their counterparts.

No 10 is going to look good when their pack is getting munched.

Hansen has fired a few barbs re Gatland's comments about the AB charge down tactics.

No 10 is going to look good when their pack is getting munched.

I think that applies more to a 9 than 10. If you can't kick your goals and you fall off tackles that is your fault no one else.

Kruis and AWJ were so far off their best and were dominated by their counterparts.

Agree with that, and wouldn't be surprised if both were replaced for next Saturday.

Just as a general point I thought it was a great game of rugby and the Lions didn't do too badly all things considered. Far more competitive than 12 years ago.

BB bought his kicking boots last week which was a bit of a surprise given his reputation for being a bit flaky off the kicking tee.

Farrell does seem to miss at least a kick per game which is interesting as that was one of his biggest strengths. I wouldn't be surprised if him and Sexton swapped places for the next test and playing both at the same time didn't seem to work.

Farrells kicking has not been that good ever IIRC lowest % of any of the 6N kickers

and playing both at the same time didn't seem to work.

Who was surprised by that? Sonny Bill Williams is a monster and neither of those is capable of going head to head with him, you need a proper destructive inside centre to stop him. A role in which I thought Ben Te'o did very well. (Shame Scott Gibbs is a bit too old for a call up 😉 )

Ahem. Dunbar. Oh no - silly me. He is at home resting up for the new season.

He's an outside centre isn't he?

Who was surprised by that?

Gatland? I don't think many of the supporters thought that combo would work in the tests did they?

Te'o may not have been a popular call up, but he's done pretty well so far and was OK defensively against the AB centers.

dragon - plays either but mainly 13 you are right. Only a cheeky throwaway comment really but at 17 stone he would hopefully be able to stop SBW ( unless Hanson spotted the defensive alignment flaw / the defensive lesson was not learnt from the England game in the 6N)

The big tic tackical change was the all blacks kicking less than normal, they usually kick a lot but on saturday played keep ball. Not sure if this was as planned or a reaction to their forwards getting over the gainline so easily due to the smart us of inside balls off 9 and offloading.