[Closed] Rugby thread 2016/2017

Like I said 🙁

That's what they do.

Good score

So why can't Marler move forward when not held? Ref says " you were off your feet" irrelevant surely?

Too much dross from the Lions today.

If your off you feet he has to release the ball and pick it up again.

Well done to the Blues totally deserved

Best looking like when he first played for the Lions. George has a big opportunity next game.

Lions played better than I expected tbh. Crusaders is a scary thought now.

Melon, but he was never tackled.

We definitely lost a game we could have won there. Our backs were " owned" though.

Nice words for Parsons at the end there - We were lucky to catch them early in the tour...

Yes, the big difference between kiwis & Aussies!!!

1 to 9 good, beyond that we didn't look threatening at all. Itoje was excellent. Need to work on the wide defence, Nowell and 1/2p seemed to be working to different plans in defence.

Going to be a long tour

Did Biggar go off for a head injury ? If he did then he's out of training for a minimum of 2 weeks and won't play for 19 days at best. That's assuming that they follow the normal return to play guidelines.

Biggar looked like he got a bang to the head un a tackle just before the try that wasnt. He went straight out to the wing hence Daly taking the clearing kick just before.

Nowell and 1/2p seemed to be working to different plans in defence.

Melon, but he was never tackled.

It's a while since I played but if you are on the deck you must release and gather if you want to continue.

All 4 props had a good game, Mc Grath in particular got through a lot of work. Love Sinkler's enthusiasm as well.

Going to be a long tour

Isn't that what we all knew already? They've just lost to the worst NZ SR team...Saturday looks like a tall ask. There was little or no flair from the backs; we were out scored three tries to one.

Oh dear.

Only saw the first 50. Front row were good, second row good but gave away a few unnecessary pens, Stander good but Hask and Tips ineffective. Webb started brightly, Biggar was OK, Sexton poor. Henshaw and Payne shite, Nowell awful, Daly did best with what came his way and 1/2p was 1/2p scampered around tidying shit up, kicked goals but nothing in attack.
Overall its progress and whilst a win would be nice anyone who expected it either hasnt looked at the schedule or payed much attention to Gatlands coaching before. He uses such games to plan and prepare, had they wanted to simply win they could have kicked to the corners and mauled them to death.

Despite the dodgy TMO the Lions were deserved losers.

The pack gained equality, if not the upper hand, but didn't really generate much go-forward momentum. The backs were pedestrian.

Nowell has never had any pace and Ioane burned him off easily over a short distance. He's already cemented his place in the midweek side for the rest of the tour with a hapless all round display. Halfpenny surely has too? Ihaia West went round him as if he were a garden gnome.

West is quick but he's not THAT quick - the chasing Lions looked like they were running in treacle.

The NZ franchises have fullbacks like Smith, Dagg, Havili, McKenzie and Jordie Barrett who are lethal running kicks back. We have Halfpenny. We also have Hogg who can be great or can be like he was on Saturday.

Best can't throw in and Owens missed one too. Hartley should be there.

The icing on the cake was - we're 6pts down with 4 mins to go, let's bring on Laidlaw........

The Crusaders are a MUCH better side than the Blues. The Lions will have a very different (hopefully better) lineup but it's gonna be tough.

Positives? Well it was nice to see SBW hitting some form after a slow season.

Overall it's progress

Is it?

I suppose if compiling a list of players that can be LEFT OUT of the test matches is progress - then it's progress.

Of course it was progress they looked much better organised than the last game. You cannot expect a scratch team to suddenly just gel and player stella rugby. I'm no Gatland fan but no group of individuals could be pulled together in the time he's had and expect to beat good teams. As it was they lost to a lucky try from SBW and a couple of defensive errors on the first try (Hask and Nowell) these things happen with scratch sides. Didnt see the third.

Best can't throw in and Owens missed one too. Hartley should be there.

I thought Owens arrows were good early on, did it go awry when the subs came on? Miss communication? Again its time and games they need.
Saturdays team should be stronger only 2 of todays are likely test starters (MGrath and Itoje).

Didnt see the third.

There ya go

Nice, not sure we can blame 1/2p for that though as suggested above! Itoje went for the wrong man.

Owens did throw well but threw one not straight later. The Best came on, we kicked to the corner in the dying seconds and he overthrew it.

Bear in mind this was the fifth best NZ franchise. It wasn't just the scratch team vs the organised team conundrum. It was the better basic skills and superior attacking mindset allied with a bit of pace vs the opposite - kind of conundrum.

It was the better basic skills and superior attacking mindset allied with a bit of pace vs the opposite kind of conundrum.

I dont agree, that final try was another individual error Itoje didnt trust POM who he hasnt played with before and opened the hole. Its an error of not sticking to the system.

I realise every one else wants doom and gloom and to blame Gatland but I think we need to wait and see.

I realise every one else wants doom and gloom and to blame Gatland

I don't blame Gatland. That game illustrates that the Kiwis have better players than we do. That's not his fault.

The Lions will get better but the the question is - will it be enough?

The Lions will get better but the the question is - will it be enough

No, but we knew that ages ago!!

No, but we knew that ages ago!!

Who's the doom & gloom merchant now? 😉

[i]the Kiwis have better players than we do[/i]

Better players, in better teams that have been playing together for a good few seasons in some, if not most, cases.
NZ are at a real peak at the moment, so many incredible players. Look at the bottom of the table team, the players they have - it really is a Lions tour on a hiding to nothing.

I still think the tests will be close ish.

Just watched SBW's 73min try in slow mo. No's 22 and 20 Lions (whoever they were) and 1/2p (who's attempt at a tackle was pathetic) are on the hook for that one.

22 was Sexton

It's a shame there isn't a reliably solid English 15 that could be on tour.

Just watched SBW's 73min try in slow mo. No's 22 and 20 Lions (whoever they were) and 1/2p (who's attempt at a tackle was pathetic) are on the hook for that one.

Fantastic analysis. Not only did you get the scorer wrong but everything else was pretty much wrong too.

Ah, it was the other fella. I'm correct on every other account though. 1/2P's "tackle" was token attempt at best. Shameful.

It was Itoje error that led to the try he opened the gap for SBW to run through. POM the number 20 you should recognise he's the bloke that destroyed England at the end of the six nations!! As for the fullback getting done well that is a 1 in ten tackle at best whoever is at fullback. Centre field a fast balanced runner coming at you whilst you are covering across very little chance.

I guess the first try was 1/2ps fault too!!!

No, SBW ran a great line, and itoge and POM were at least partially blocked. West ran straight through Sexton, POM (shame he couldn't do some destroying today) and HP didn't even bother.
I'm sure you'll continue to blame the english players as long as they are on the field though, just as you have done so far (Hask, Nowell and Itoge are the only players you have blamed so far, apparently Biggar was OK and HP blameless........)
Gatland and his team don't have the talent to compete in this tour.

Not sure I'd put West's try down to a simple error, I thought it was well worked. A straight-forward overload, runner from deep inside Itoje and runner from the line just outside in the gap between Itoje and POM. Itoje chose the outside man (most players will do that rather than turn their shoulders in), but if he had gone inside it would have needed a very big hit to stop the offload. Maybe Itoje and the rest of the line should have been tighter to pick up that sort of run, but they had been exposed on the flanks several times during the match.

Oops, just realised my comment is a bit ambiguous. I don't think that there are any runners inside Itoje, deep or otherwise. 🙂

1st try was just an overlap, Nowell came in to try and cut it off but didn't get close so poor judgement. Not sure why HP got there as late as he did though because most of the game ( and in the 1st match) the lions seemed to be using the fullback to cover the outside channel in situations like that. Nowell should have known the cover was not there though and tried to buy time by drifting.

As for the fullback getting done well that is a 1 in ten tackle at best whoever is at fullback. Centre field a fast balanced runner coming at you whilst you are covering across very little chance.

This. He seemed to slightly gamble to one side which is all he could do in the circumstances and got skinned, same as any other defender in that situation.

... this is poor cover tackling as the last man for comparison 🙂

Didn't see the game myself but a good friend told me Biggar and Sexton where both hopeless.

@wrecker you are quite right, we are far short of the All Blacks in terms of talent and of course can't match them for teamwork as we are a new side.

Seen the rest of the game, Biggar was OK was lucky to get away with the error for the non try but as he was concussed already I'll give him a pass. Sexton was rank and Nowell was worse. Tipuric ran around doing a lot of nothing not sure why the commentators were so favourable to him. Lawes and Itoje were very good despite a few too many pens conceded. Two props were good, Owens was OK but has little impact in the loose. Haskel lumbered around not doing much in contrast to Tips who ran about fast not doing much. Stander started quite well and faded fast.
Less said about 12 and 13 the better.

DanW was that the time cronin went round Biggar? He was concussed there too...bit of a worry.

Bets on Ford getting called up? Or Priestland.

I'm sure you'll continue to blame the english players as long as they are on the field

I'd have thought you'd be used to it by now...

One up Rugby, inneffective. Gatland won't offer much more. Doomed.

Oh do **** off and read what I wrote you bunch of precious numpties.
Maybe if you had a vague understanding of the game you could realise that the last try was not 1/2ps fault. By all means be critical of the bloke for being little threat in attack and losing the ball in contact just try and base it on what you see. Or just think about what you have written about all the non english players before you criticise me.
Also while you are on try learning what some non english player look like before you take the time to criticise them.

One up Rugby, inneffective. Gatland won't offer much more. Doomed.

Dont watch it then, maybe do a DD and ignore the whole thing if you are so convinced its awful. Just keep your daft ill informed comments to yourself.

Bets on Ford getting called up? Or Priestland

Priestland....no
Ford maybe or maybe Russell
if Biggar will be back soon they may bring in someone from the welsh tour to Tonga to do bench cover short term. They have 3 10's though so should be fine.

Tbh not as bad as I was expecting.

My 2 big issues.

Need to sort half back combination as it's killing attacking play in backs.

Defensive lines in backs more difficult problem. Nowell either didn't get the memo or the drift isn't doing what it's supposed to. If don't get this sorted going ship a lot of tries.

Saturday will be interesting, am already becoming a bit obsessed.

Sit with Kiwi and a Welsh blokes at work, good for a bit of patisan banter

Defensive lines in backs more difficult problem. Nowell either didn't get the memo or the drift isn't doing what it's supposed to. If don't get this sorted going ship a lot of tries

It just needs time in training. The problem for him is that his game then fell apart he dropped an easy pass and rushed out of the line to tackle Iaone (sp?) later on and missed again.
Loopy Liam was back to his Loopy worst too. Lucky to be picked although they are starting everyone in at least one game.

Lions squad to play Crusaders:

Team: S Hogg; G North, J Davies; B Te'o, L Williams; O Farrell; C Murray; M Vunipola, J George, T Furlong; AW Jones (capt), G Kruis; P O'Mahony, S O'Brien, T Faletau

Replacements: K Owens, J McGrath, D Cole, M Itoje, CJ Stander, R Webb, J Sexton, A Watson

Looks strong. Shame Sexton is playing so poorly as with Faz at 10 our options at 12 are limited. I cant stand Teo but he looks the best bet at 12 although not with Davies at 13. Would like to see Daly get a chance at 13 if not Teo and Joseph it is.

The Cronin one was after a bump to the head. When I was watching both Biggar and Sexton play the amount of recent knocks was the first thing in my mind. Hard to know if it is just poor form or if they would be better with rest

@aa thanks, I hear Biggars tour is over. Now I am clearly not a sportsman at this level but if I where in Ford's shoes I would not go. Passed over first tîme round I'd stick with England

Te'o needs to offload. Faz now owns 10. But generally I am thinking lots of good options from top drawer players in forwards. But much less confidence in backs. Hope Hogg gets his mojo going

Just keep your daft ill informed comments to yourself.

Calm down dear.

Its obvious to anyone who watch the game - the Lions backs are playing like NH backs, for the most part single runners, passing along the line, no support and no invention, whereas the Kiwis are the opposite plus pace. Howley has been criticised for the Welsh lack of invention, Gatland for his one dimensional play, so would you suddenly expect this to change?

"Play to thier strengths in the set piece" the media says. Well, thats fine when there is one.

Teo might break more but he needs the support runners he was looking for last week. 1/2p and Nowell need to make tackles. The England and Irish props looking good, Itoje, Laws and Wynn Jones the test locks most likely.

[i]Maybe if you had a vague understanding of the game [/i]

Shit thread back to form I see. **** this you lot bicker amongst yourselves.

C'mon guys. It's the Standar Life Investment Lions here. They'll only love it if we all start fighting amongst ourselves. 🙂

Lol.

Actually i think its only AA arguing with his alter ego the rest of us are talking about the Rugby. @ AA: 😉

@aa thanks, I hear Biggars tour is over. Now I am clearly not a sportsman at this level but if I where in Ford's shoes I would not go. Passed over first tîme round I'd stick with England

The Power of Four!!!

Wynn Jones

Its Jones....

Apologies, I don't speak Welsh.

anagallis_arvensis - Member
@aa thanks, I hear Biggars tour is over. Now I am clearly not a sportsman at this level but if I where in Ford's shoes I would not go. Passed over first tîme round I'd stick with England
The Power of Four!!!

Oh c'mon its obvious, Cips is already on the plane - an attacking maverick play maker would be perfect...

Still think trying to manufacture a team to play like the AB's is a hiding to nothing

Pick the biggest, ugliest pack and some solid opportunist backs, play smart and go from there (ie England).

If Farrell does indeed become the choice 10 then the backs become irrelevant anyway...

... I can't believe I'm even thinking it but Ford 10/ Farrell 12 wouldn't be the worst thing in the world at this point 😯 😳

Crusaders Team to face Lions:

Crusaders: Israel Dagg; Seta Tamanivalu, Jack Goodhue, David Havili, George Bridge; Richie Mo’unga, Bryn Hall; Joe Moody, Codie Taylor, Owen Franks; Luke Romano, Sam Whitelock (C); Heiden Bedwell-Curtis, Matt Todd, Jordan Taufua.

Reps: Ben Funnell, Wyatt Crockett, Michael Alaalatoa, Quinten Strange, Jed Brown, Mitchell Drummond, Mitchell Hunt, Tim Bateman.

The excellent Ryan Crotty is injured so Havili moves to 12 from 15. Nothing much there to worry us......

Maori Squad to face the Lions on the 17th

M?ori All Blacks squad:

Forwards: Chris Eves (North Harbour), Kane Hames (Tasman), Mike Kainga (Taranaki), Ben May (Hawke’s Bay), Marcel Renata (Auckland), Ash Dixon (captain, Hawke’s Bay ), Hikawera Elliot (Counties Manukau), Tom Franklin (Otago), Leighton Price (Taranaki), Joe Wheeler (Tasman), Elliot Dixon (Southland), Akira Ioane (Auckland), Liam Messam (Waikato), Reed Prinsep (Canterbury), Kara Pryor (Northland).

Backs: Bryn Hall (North Harbour), Te Toiroa Tahuriorangi (Taranaki), Otere Black (Manawatu), Ihaia West (Hawke’s Bay), Tim Bateman (Canterbury), Charlie Ngatai (Taranaki), Matt Proctor (Wellington), Rob Thompson (Canterbury), James Lowe (Tasman) Damian McKenzie (Waikato), Nehe Milner-Skudder (Manawatu), Declan O'Donnell (Taranaki).

Nothing much there to worry us either...

ABs Squad:

Props: Wyatt Crockett, Charlie Faumuina, Owen Franks, Joe Moody, Ofa Tu’ungafasi Hookers: Dane Coles, Codie Taylor, Nathan Harris

Locks: Scott Barrett, Brodie Retallick, Luke Romano, Sam Whitelock

Loose forwards: Sam Cane, Jerome Kaino, Kieran Read (captain), Ardie Savea, Liam Squire

Scrum-halves: Tawera Kerr-Barlow, TJ Perenara, Aaron Smith

Fly-halves: Beauden Barrett, Aaron Cruden, Lima Sopoaga

Centres: Ryan Crotty, Ngani Laumape, Anton Leinert-Brown, Sonny Bill Williams

Outside backs: Jordie Barrett, Israel Dagg, Rieko Ioane, Waisake Naholo, Julian Savea, Ben Smith

Milner-Skudder hasn't played enough yet. Damian McKenzie's time may come once he moves to 10 for the Chiefs. Both get a run-out with the Maoris. The perennially unfortunate Matt Todd misses out again even though Read,Kaino and Squire have all been injured. Coles is included but he's unlikely to play.

Again, nothing there to really worry us..... 😯

I thought Ben Smith was injured my fav all black. Awesome player

Still think trying to manufacture a team to play like the AB's is a hiding to nothing

Pick the biggest, ugliest pack and some solid opportunist backs, play smart and go from there (ie England).

I think I did suggest picking the whole England squad plus George North, Stuart Hogg, Sam Warburton and Peter O'Mahony or similar.

Apologies, I don't speak Welsh.

I thought Ben Smith was injured my fav all black. Awesome player

Yeah he banged his head on the ground in the Highlanders'last game and failed the concussion protocol but he seems to be on track to recover quickly.

I think he's brilliant too but I'm an Israel Dagg fan. He's been a bit unlucky with injuries but I think he has most of Smith's skill set along with a bigger boot and better distribution (he often plays at first receiver for the Crusaders). Plus he has a knack of scoring tries in big games. Not a bad choice to have to make. They'll probably go with Smith at 15 and Dagg at 14. Dagg's defensive positioning, high ball prowess and decision making ability is vastly superior to Savea/Naholo so one of them will be the "power winger".

Do you also ignore the names of any Moari All Blacks too?

It's M-A-O-R-I actually.

I guess you don't speak Maori? 😆

I think I did suggest picking the whole England squad plus George North, Stuart Hogg, Sam Warburton and Peter O'Mahony or similar.

Namaste its hard to say who is a better 15 between Dagg and Smith but I just love watching Smith play. He just does the simple things so so well. One will play 14 though I expect and I think Smith is the better winger.

I guess you don't speak Maori?

😆

Please don't call up Russell. His unique brand of WTF style play will not suit the Lions and he will be much more use to Scotland playing with Ali Price.

Just let Hogg have a crack at fly half if you must.

Just let Hogg have a crack at fly half if you must.

Bruce! You're back!

I thought you weren't supporting the Lions?

Does the possible inclusion of Russell bring the Lions above the (as yet unrevealed) minimum number of Scots required for you to join your fellow Brits and Irishmen as a true Lions supporter?

😉

How big an issue do we think "end of season fatigue" is for the Lions? I know the NZ teams make anyone look sluggish, but still......

Some players like Sexton look like they are done for the season.