[Closed] Rugby thread 2016/2017

Seems clear to me its your irrational hatred of Gatland he has the problem with.

Hate's a strong word. I prefer despise. And if you've got a problem with people who despise Gatland then that's an awful lot of people to have a problem with.

Gatland is a one dimensional coach as far as the northern hemisphere skill set is concerned.

Now most of the credible strong men outside of 4&5 arent available, hes left with Wales and Farrell jnr vs Ab's and we all know how that story will go.

Im not looking foward to the tour tbh, it has the smell of another NH whipping by the time the clubs have had a go.

Hate's a strong word. I prefer despise.

Same same, but different.

Anyway, getting back to the question, I'd be glad if any of the non-Lions-supporting Scottish element could enlighten me as to how many of their boys would need to be selected in order for them to lend their support?

In absence of any hard evidence (yet) I'd suggest 3/4 test starters, 5/6 in the test 23 and 10/11 in the tour party would be sufficient?

It's entirely possible that Hogg, Seymour (if he gets a run of good games) and Laidlaw (if he gets a run of other 9s being injured) could all start the 1st test.

Namaste
As a non native born scot that article linked to pretty much sums it up. for a generation the best scots players have consistently missed out. Its all a bit odd but as any real fan will know - its whats in your heart.

This time around for the lions? Hamish Watson is the stand out who should have gone. Best 7 this six nations. The others are more marginal calls Gray Brothers, Dunbar, Taylor, Barclay. It would be nice to see more than a token one or two

Its was just so predictable and dreary that the best scots would be overlooked. As soon as Gatland was named coach it was obvious.

The level of delusion here is quite wonderful and the ability to create a narative where Hamish Watson is the best 7 in Britain and a double grand slam and lions series winning coach is too stupid to see it due to his anti scots bias is lovely.
As a side note Watson is not as good as James Davies and he's not even on the Welsh tour to Tonga.
I'll just carry on looking forward to some quality rugby. Hell I even supported the Lions when Woodward pick Titteral!!

TJ

Whilst I agree it's disappointing when one's favourite players don't get picked there does seem to be a collective paranoia from the Scots that there's a conspiracy going on. Which there isn't.

Scotland had been pretty sh1t for about 15yrs until the Cotter led resurgence of late. If a team is very poor it's harder for individuals to stand out and thus get picked.

Scotland were unfortunate that some of their best players were in the most heavily contested positions. Watson was unlucky but Warbs and Tips have both performed at a high standard for longer. Scotland also beat Ireland but they beat the ABs and England this year - two sides who did/would hammer Scotland.

I think Launchbury should be on the tour but I'm still supporting the Lions - as I would if the test XV had no Englishmen.

Guys - what you don't understand its that this has been happening for a generation or more. go back to guys like Jason White

AA = Watson was clearly the best 7 in the 6N - his stats show it. He made more carries for more yards, more turnovers, more tackles with less missed. But Gatland takes all his favourite players even if out of form and / or injured

Scotland clearly were a better team than Wales this year. Yet look at the representation.

When you only get a token representation then it hard to get behind the eam

AA = Watson was clearly the best 7 in the 6N - his stats show it. He made more carries for more yards, more turnovers, more tackles with less missed. But Gatland takes all his favourite players even if out of form and / or injured

Stats dont meam shit. Warburton was outstanding playing out of position at 6 and Tipuric is simply a better player too. Trying to make out Watson is a clearly better player than a Lions series winning captain and that a decent professional coach cant see what you can by looking at a few stats makes you look bonkers I'm afraid.

Scotland clearly were a better team than Wales this year.

Tell me again how this clearly better side did v England? The pressure came on and they collectively shit the bed those attributes wont be needed in NZ.

AA - could equally say your blind adherence to these guys makes you look bonkers 🙂 Lets not fall out about it. I am trying to explain why, to me and others, the lions no longer feels like "our team" Not to rehash allthe selection debates

Yes each decision over selection over the last 25 years could be seen as reasonable when taken in isolation. Same with this years decisions. Gatland has a 50/50 choice in a number of positions - does he go with the guy he knows and trusts?

~There have been years when we hardly deserved much if any representation - but over the years the scots players are consistently overlooked. This year given the comparative performance of Scotland and Wales the disparity of numbers selected looks unfair

But what we are talking about here is feeling like you have a stake in the team. I and others no longer do because time and time again the scots players get overlooked. Every 50/50 decision goes against the scot. The lions simply does not feel like "our team" Of course I will support them but its not that gutwrenching feeling all true fans ( of scotland ? 🙂 ) will know

You can't change whats in your heart

Why would there be more scots? At least the welsh players can remember winning the odd grand slam and lions series in the dim and distant past,maybe he wants the mentality of people who can atleast remember winning something,saying that though i'm sure if the welsh players were completely honest they would admit to having a major mental block when it comes to N.Z.

Twickenham Tips?

A mate is a massive Wasps fan and has dragged me in to going to Twickenham this weekend.

Is it correct that I can tune my FM app on my phone to the commentary?
Any other tips? We have centreline seats.

AA - could equally say your blind adherence to these guys makes you look bonkers

You could but suggesting that Watson v Warburton is a 50 50 call is frankly bonkers.

Have I missed anything.....did we not have this conversation re Watson and back row some time ago.....????

Surely time to get on with the how are 'we' the Lions going to win.

Gatland got the gig - had our say for what it is worth - so for me I think we will miss Billy- went to Champions weekend and he was outstanding as was MAko.

More concerning was Laidlaw, who when he came on was so SLOW and ponderous itwill be interesting if he can get to any match fitness.

Laidlaw is a known quantity. Excellent pass but actual delivery can be slow and no threat around the fringes. Top notch kicker. Good tactical brain. He would be a good midweek captain but if he ends up starting the lions are in trouble 🙂

Billy is a big loss - no doubt at all. Haskell while a decent player is not the running threat that Billy is.

Yeah, I'm sure we had this arguement about the merits of the welshies and Scots a while back.

As a neutral to it, I feel well positioned to add some balance to it: your teams are both equally shite! 😆

Haskell while a decent player is not the running threat that Billy is.

😀

Haskals call up was am odd one. Obviously Moriarty will be playing 8 and maybe SOB.
I remain less than convinced Vunipola would have worried the all blacks.

Mike Brown gained the most metres in the 6 nations, why isn't he in the Lions - Scottish favouritism clearly.

Saw Moriarty playing the Friday for Glos against Stade, good solid game as did Morgan ( apart from his catching...) but the class of Parisee behind a good pack was evident, so some way to be convinced re Moriarty ( good player only going to get better) to Billy who looked pretty impressive even when running down a blind alley he managed to recycle.

Laidlaws time for me has passed, good player and good leader butScots looked better without him and accelerates Finn's learning and responsibility taking.

Vondally - I don't think we will see laidlaw play again for Scotland barring injuries. He misses the summer tour, 3 decent players vying for a starting berth. I don't think there will be room for him. He is off to France for a last big payday is he not?

Correct TJ, and good luck to him well deserved.

I remain less than convinced Vunipola would have worried the all blacks

O'Brian had the potential to be a great number 8 early on but he ended up at 6 because coaches because Leinster and Ireland had Heaslip and you could get both on the pitch by playing SOB at 6. Not sure if he is an option there now at International level.

but I've seen plenty of not Toby and moriarty and they aren't even close to billy at any aspect of the game.

I'm sorry but thats clearly bollocks, for starters Faletau is an excelent lineout option, faletau's work rate over the 80mins is much better and his support running and passing is better. No doubt Billy is a big loss and I expect he'd have been starting 8 but the only thing he's clearly better than Faletau at is carrying and whilst thats clearly pretty fundamentally important and Faletau is a very different beast but does have areas he's better than Billy.

Except it's not bollocks. Toby is an excellent player, there is no denying it but he's not at not really that close to billy in most aspects

Nobody got any twickenham tips for me then?

Toby is an excellent player, there is no denying it but he's not at not really that close to billy in most aspects

POSTED 1 HOUR AGO # REPORT-POST

Except thats not what you said. Take lineouts Faletau is a very good lineout option Vunipola isnt so your original assertion that no aspects are close is clearly bollocks although I suppose Faletau is so far ahead in this aspect that they arent close so you could be so wrong you've become right again 😉

Remind me AA who started as 8 for Wales in 6 nations?

Haskals call up was am odd one.

Gatland calling up a large boshing palyer into team is a suprise when?

Agree with the Billy V argument, even Moriaty in angry mode isnt as threatening, but Not Toby? Decent players yes, Billy V comparisons no.

Ok I'll amend that Billy is better (and a good bit better) in all aspects except the line out. I'm sure a third option will be quite useful should they choose not to throw to Itoge, Kruis or AWJ.

Remind me AA who started as 8 for Wales in 6 nations?

Moriarty, Faletau was injured to start with and Moriarty was doing a good job having moved over from 6. He's bang average though. Not Toby is a class rugby player though, Wales best player. Has had a poor season due to injury though he did come good for Bath at the end of the season. Obviously wrecker is blinkered by the fact he plays for Barf!!

Not at all. I am a great admirer of many barf players, and there is no jealousy as Steven Luatua is on his way to the gate believe it or not. Not Toby is absolutely class, stating that another is better is not equal to saying he's shit. Billy V is in my (and many others) opinion, one of the very best, Not being his level is no insult.

Just checking the beeb for teams for tomorrow and noticed this. Now I like Steff Evans and it looked accidental but it was a stone cold red card how has it been rescinded, yes maybe the red was punishment enough but surely it was a red

Scarlets wing Steff Evans is free to play after the red card he received in the semi-final win over Leinster was rescinded by a disciplinary panel

Billy and Faletau are both class players who do most things very well. They just excel in different areas making it very difficult to say one is better than the other. Billy area of excellence is more eye catching but having seen Faletau for Bath a few times this year he is a very fine player indeed and I don't think you can say one is better than the other.

In this day of high impact and higher injury count Toby could be well rested and rating to go but has he had enough match time and be match fit?

This element of match ready for international is fascinating now, Morarity clearly upped his game for some of the 6 nation matches and then was quieter in others. Billy played pretty much constantly good to very good for all of the 6 nations.

Toby is a class player and offers different options to Billy however for the all blacks I would have chosen Billy, just adds a yard in gainline and the space he can create for others by drawing opposition in as a positive.
Arguably in defence Toby is better?

Is Wood on the Engerland tour? Just trying to work out the length of ban he will get for a head stamp.

Just caught up with the Tom Wood incident. His reaction after the card was almost as unforgivable as the hit in the first place.

Can't find any detail on the judgement in the steff evans case
Looked like a stone wall red but did the tackled player get an arm out first so the arm was the first thing to hit the ground?

In this day of high impact and higher injury count Toby could be well rested and rating to go but has he had enough match time and be match fit?

Faletau has played consistently for Bath since the six nations. Scored a hat trick v gloucester and been mom in other so seems to be coming into form. Moriarty wont let anyone doen but shouldnt trouble the test team.

Reading about the Evans red it seems the citing panel thought it was Samson Lees involvement that caused the player to rotate..not sure I agree.

Northampton Sinner..bunch of ****ing scum bags.

Ah - there is precedent for that when two players tackle simultaneously then its hard to tell who lifted if anyone

Jesus that Tom Wood clip is bad stuff.....always been a big fan of his 🙁

Its just dawned on me that tomorrow well see Underhill vs Armitage on the pitch. Could be interesting.

Underhill hasnt really got back to last seasons form yet. He certainly lifted a few weights whilst injured though!!

too many weights not enough speed work, useless prick

Being sort of neutral I have always been able to enjoy watching the English premier and mostly enjoy the rugby,for my sins I favour Glazzer, but hey-ho. Since the Clark incident though,I have hated Northampton. But it seems to be more than just Clark who is/was an arse at Franklin's gardens.

Double post.

Come on Chiefs!

Tight game.

cracking ap final going on. come on Exeter!

Hughes has just dug them out the shit. Why didnt they take the points earlier

Yes, running rugby is all very well...

Get in!

GET IN!

Nice one Exeter! Great for the game to see a club like them win the ap

TJ +1. Only heard the extra time on the radio but an historic win for a small club who have made it

They're not a small club any more!

For the last 7 years they have only been small in the sense of not having history in the top flight.

It's a very professionally run operation with massive attention to detail across the piece from stadium planning and development, coaching, team recruitment, talent growth, community involvement etc etc.

Oh indeed. However IIRC they have not spent outside their means and have not gone the Sarries / Racing route of just buying up all the stars but created a real team that plays exciting rugby

Pro 12 final a somewhat more one sided affair in the first half

Could have done with keeping munster out there.

Makes a game of it tho for the neutral

Parkes on to do the comedy 10 routine!!

C.65mins
Munster fans leaving early.
Scarlets fans getting another round in.
😆

What happened to Munster? didn't turn up today and ran into a Scarlets team that clicked.

Cubby!

Cubby!

5th choice welsh 7. Better than Watson 😆

And a complete tool!

And a complete tool!

Oh yes!!! In the tradition of all the best Welsh players everyone else hates them. I just hope Liam stays a **** at Saffercens and doesnt grow a floppy fringe and come over all reasonable.

Loopy Liam has shown a few signs of growing up a bit but he is still an annoying get - and a bloody good player

In the tradition of all the best Welsh players everyone else hates them

5th choice 7? He'll never be "best"!!

Sam, Tips, Jenkins, Young then Cubby Boi.

It's also hardly subjective, he really is a tool.

See he is already one of our best players. The more the English hate them the more we love them. See also StGavlar of Henson.

But I love Gav!

And he loves you, Wrecker.
[img] [/img]

But I love Gav!

Thats because you've been educated by actually wathing him play!

There aren't that many welsh players I think are/were bell ends. Powell probably top of that list and he was by no means an excellent player. In contrast, Mikey was a very good player and a total prick!
We all have them!

So - the end of the season.

Edinburgh - just a lousy year. A few good wins especially in the minnows cup but simply not good enough and only the Italians saved them from complete embarrassment in the pro 12. They played without either heart or brain. Still - a new coach to arrive in the form of Cockerill who certainly should instil some heart into them. Things really only can get better. 1/10

Glasgow: A season to far. Some real highlights in the demolition of Racing and Tigers home and away but too inconsistent in the league and faded away at the end of the season. Outclassed by Sarries and depth of squad a bit exposed but did make it into the knockout of the European cup for the first time. In the end a slightly disappointing season. Townsend is leaving for Scotland but a coach with a really good reputation is coming in - Rennie 8/10

Scotland: all in all a good year. Risen to 5th in the rankings their highest ever. Won 3 games in the six nations - first for a long time and finally got over the welsh jinx. Two superb halves of rugby against the Welsh and Irish where they blew them away. Unfortunately marred by an utter spanking by England that will burn for a long time. A really good send off for big Vern and Townsend to come in. Is this a good move? 7/10

Pro 12 - Improvements from the Welsh this year and Scarlets won which can only be good for the league and Welsh rugby. Italians still struggling and various talk about changes.

aP - not really my subject 😉 but I was glad to see Exeter win and Sarries were the form team in Europe peaking at the right time.

Overall I thought the standard of entertainment on display was good - nice to see teams with attack first prospering. aP final was a great game

nice to see teams with attack first prospering.

You do realise Exeter beat Wasps

You do realise Exeter beat Wasps

I think I misunderstand this, do you mean Exeter are not an attacking team? They were threatening all day yesterday. Don't these stats show that if Wasps are the most attacking team then Exeter must be 2nd most.
http://www.premiershiprugby.com/team-stats/

and I think Exeter got the most try bonus points ever in the prem? https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/may/25/wasps-exeter-ensure-attacking-rugby-ambition-return-premiership-final-twickenham

The atmosphere was amazing yesterday, gutted for Wasps as at one stage they held off 34 phases and looked so strong in defence. Lots people think Exeter had the edge on fitness as they just kept on attacking and attacking until Wasps just got completely knackered. It was great to see such a close game as the finale. I confess to not being a major rugby follower, and haven't seen any other prem matches, and only watched the french games in the Six N. But this game was very entertaining, lots of running, passing and try scoring intent from both sides. I enjoyed it so much I might start going to games.