[Closed] Rugby thread 2016/2017

The difference in size and fitness would simply be too great with the modern day players. It would be no contest

They are not bigger, fitter almost certainly, there has a move away from gym bunnies to strong but mobile players with a much greater focus on body weight exercises - this is particularly the case in NZ. That said, an acquaintance of mine whose 14/5 year old is the books of Quins is doing weights programme.

there has a move away from gym bunnies

Someone should tell The Hask, Jamie Grorge certainly got the memo!! 😆

Not everyone is capable of reading the memo! But old habits die hard.

Racing 92 and Stade Francais to merge into one 'super club'! Strange but interesting.....I imagine that a number of players will be worrying about where this leaves them!

Indeed Tom just got a mailing this morining. Basically one squad from two ! Stade have a lovely new stadium (approved as part of Paris 2012 Olympic bid) next to the old Parc de Princes / PSG ground and Racing play out in an old dump in Bois Colombes. So Stadium is obvious. I wonder what they will do about club name and shirts ? I haven't looked at the table but good news for someone down at the bottom.

@mefty my mates son is 12 (just gone to Rugby School from Singapore) and bigger all round than Watson !

No doubt the kids are bigger, but at the international level, only the back row of this year's size is significantly bigger than the 2003 side - but that was a lot smaller than previous England back rows. My acquaintance's son is bigger than me.

Sadly, Rugby is not the force it was in Schools Football, lots of far stronger schools, although they did have an unbeaten side for the first time in years this season.

Fraser Brown cited for his 2nd minute tackle

Since it was seen & sanctioned at the time that seems overkill. Unless they think it was a definite red?

French clubs Racing 92 and Stade Francais have announced plans to merge from next season,if allowed,thats a bit suprise,two massive clubs merging like that,especially as paris is such a big city.

Dantsw13

There is a good argument that it should have been. He certainly lifted legs beyond horizontal and didn't look after Daly on the way down, and the first thing to hit the ground is shoulders/bottom of neck, tough to really spot exactly. In his favour he didn't have hold of Daly's legs at impact so could argue he wasn't driving him into the ground, but I would suggest Ross Ford gets ready for Saturday just in case

The citing committee effectively can turn the yellow into a red (which I think it should've been). I'd guess the England physio who treated Daly for an almost broken neck plus a bruised face from a headbutt recommended that Brown should get a ban 😉

Well to cap off a great weekend for English rugby we won the Vancouver 7s too!

Having held the all-conquering BlitzBokke to a draw in the pool stages England annihilated Fiji 40-7 in a brilliant semi final performance before dominating the rematch with SA in the final, winning 19-5.

So far this year only England have avoided defeat against SA, with 3 wins and a draw. SA have beaten everybody else, every time.

Well to cap off a great weekend for English rugby we won the Vancouver 7s too!

It's not been a bad week really for English rugby. Just need to keep it up now.

. In his favour he didn't have hold of Daly's legs at impact so could argue he wasn't driving him into the ground,

I thought it was a red, outcome not intent is what the panel looks at.

[i]It's not been a bad week really for English rugby. Just need to keep it up now.[/i]

And my lad's under14s team travelled overseas and won their final (On the Isle of Wight 😀 )

was it very crowded?

On brown I believe the yellow was right - lifted so foul play, lands on his back = yellow card

It was a moronic late tackle too though. To continue when you know the ball has gone & do that, shows how mentally wrong he was.

The fact he argues with the ref about the yellow certainly won't help his case.

theotherjonv -
was it very crowded?

It was rammed! Check the crowds -
[img] http://tinyurl.com/jmodtfl [/img]

[i]On brown I believe the yellow was right - lifted so foul play, lands on his back = yellow card[/i]

+ headbutts him in the face on landing = red card.

It was rammed! Check the crowds -

That kid with the ball has been watching too much of Jonny May and someone needs to have a word with the players wearing leggings.

That kid with the ball is a better rugby player than you are/ever were/or ever will be and the kids wearing leggings? one is the ref, wouldn't catch me reffing dressed like that!

Don't be so touchy - it was only a light hearted comment.

So was mine 😛

No punishment for Fraser Brown.

Gav back in Wales next year? 😀

a_a, you never know...his days in the red shirt may not yet be over. RWC2019 could be a shot yet.

😆

Shame its the Dregs!!

Stade players have gone on strike!!

Stade players have gone on strike!!

Greve - the most important French word to know. My neice is a dental student, they where on strike a week or so ago, blocked the Periph for a bit 🙂

French clubs Racing 92 and Stade Francais have announced plans to merge from next season,if allowed,thats a bit suprise,two massive clubs merging like that,especially as paris is such a big city.

Paris is not a rugby city though - they are all further South, attendences are pretty mixed and tickets can be had easily and cheaply. I regularly go to top fixtures for €15. As I posted Stade have a lovely stadium (well they rent access romntje City) and Racing play at a dump - I suspct the costs / issues of trying to upgrade to a new stadium would have been a big factor in Racing's thinking

I'm sad to see Gav go, but I'm happy he's going to finish his playing career in Wales. It would have been nice of he could have gone back to the Ospreys.
I'd love him to come back in a coaching/development role.

I missed the match and finally saw the Fraser Brown - Daly incident.
I think it was a little unfortunate. Brown hit him well and drove through. Daly jumped into the tackle a little (at best didn't get his body position right for the impact) and got dumped. Brown was going forward and Daly collapsed backwards.
Completely different from the situation where an attacker is going forward in the tackle and is flipped over a hip by the defender.
I think Brown tackled well and made no attempt to tip Daly - it was Daly's weak positioning going into contact that lead to the incident.
No penalty and a talking to for Daly for jumping into tackles.

No. I think you are mistaken. If you look carefully you will see that a penalty is given & Brown is sent to the sin bin . HTH

Daly's feet are off the ground before Brown hits him.

I was brought up through 25 years of playing to believe that the referee was always right - but if citing is alllowed then clearly the referee is sometimes wrong

He got it wrong.

No penalty and a talking to for Daly for jumping into tackles.

I agree and have sent your post to Alain Rolland

Wales moral victors of the 2011 world cup!!!

[img] [/img]

citing is alllowed then clearly the referee is sometimes wrong

I thought the citing said no samction ie the yellow was right. Not a red so no ban.

IGM,
think you're applying the laws from 25 years ago to that incident.
If I was playing now and played the way that was normal for me 30 years ago I'd collect a red card most games.

I may be.

You'll be telling me I can't punch next.

But seriously, Daly jumps. From that point on physics says he lands on his back at best.

If I was really interested in stopping injury, I'd have carded Daly.

Now Daly's tackle in the Argentina match...

you must have been living under a bridge for the last 25 years 😆

Quite possibly.

But that Brown Daly tackle was inevitable as soon as Daly jumped wasn't it?

Daly doesn't jump into the tackle. Not even a little bit. He passes the ball and no more.
You can clearly see Brown lifting his leg at 5-6s and in fact both legs at 23s. Lifting both a players legs in the air whilst pushing him backwards with your shoulder isn't even borderline. Dangerous tackle (very f***ing dangerous in fact), and he's very lucky not to get a red, purely because the sanctions are based on the result (whether you agree with it or not), and Daly didn't finish the game. The only rules relevant are the rules at the time of the game, and this was a yellow by quite a long way.

So where's IGM admitting his error? Or does he still think Daly jumped. jeez why am I even getting into a discussion about it?? 😆

At 19s in that clip, just at the moment of contact Daly goes up on both his toes. To be fair I don't think he's left the ground until after the contact, but you can see him jumping (flinching if you prefer) at that point.
Brown just tries to wrap I'm and drive through. Text book frontal tackle.

He's running ffs!!

Two footed running? Both Daly's feet are planted and he goes up on his toes.

Two footed running is achievable for most people with more than the average number of legs!!

Seriously though, we must be watching different things because to me Daly is running, he plants his left leg and is tackled as his right leg is following through. At no point does he jump or go up on his toes.

At 19s in that clip, just at the moment of contact Daly goes up on both his toes.

Seriously guys. In a world where people can vote for Donny, do you really think a bit of video evidence is going to convince someone who sees what he wants to see? This is an unwinnable argument.

The laws an ass - as you can see by the actual outcome from the two Daly incidents

As @wrecker said Brown was lucky not to get a Red it was a far worse tackle than Warb's in the RWC SF. Brown is responsible for putting the player down safely having lifted his feet off the ground and rotated him.

My 2 cents pumped up Scottish forward out to make a mark on an English back in first minutes of the game. About as accidental as the AB two man spear tackle on BOD when Lions captain.

You know what Jamba - you really do hate the scots don't you. Your attitude is close to racism. I won't engage with you any further.

My 2 cents pumped up Scottish forward out to make a mark on an English back in first minutes of the game.

jambalaya - Member
As @wrecker said Daly was lucky not to get a Red it was a far worse tackle than Warb's in the RWC SF. Daly is responsible for putting the player down safely.

It's generally the culprit rather than the victim who gets a card.

😉

Naah. Jamba had it right first time. Red for Daly for endangering himself (yes now I'm trolling)

Greve - the most important French word to know.

Well, if you knew it, you'd know that it's grève.

pumped up Scottish forward out to make a mark on an English back in first minutes of the game.

Nothing in the least bit racist about that, TJ. The use of the words Scottish and English denote the teams each player was playing for. Not sure how else it could be described, really.

Pumped up forwards making a mark eh?
While I was amazed Brown got no further sanction I was also very surprised this wasn't looked at again
Two contacts; neither below the neck. One comes from the golden child though,so nothing to see; even though his arm is adjusted as Hogg steps him.
https://mobile.twitter.com/CammyBlack/status/841252200357720064/video/1

Duckman - have you seen the cleaning out at the ruck from the same twitter thread?

The way the game is going with inconsistent video ref interventions, or lack of, is very worrying imo.

Or is it that we're all poring over every minute detail of everything after the game and we have trial by twitter?

Endless loops of anything even remotely contentious are now the sine qua non of post match analysis.

No things youvsee obviously in real time are missed and then we get the replay of Sexton literally head butting Davies knee replayed wtf was that all about. They only seem to look at injuries or when a play goes down clutching his face like he's been shot

the sine qua non of post match analysis.

You wot?

Iz it coz I are edjumerkated?

😉

You know what Jamba - you really do hate the scots don't you. Your attitude is close to racism. I won't engage with you any further.

🙄

I've completely lost track of what constitutes a red or yellow card these days. I thought I had a handle on it up until a few months ago where basically anything that made contact with the head was red but that directive has either been rescinded or it was quietly abandoned like the straight put in at the scrum.

Can anyone give me a brief summary of what is the current official line and what is the current situation on the ground? I don't think I'm the only one who's confused.

TJ - I'm afraid I believe Jambalaya is spot on. The more I think about it, the reason Scotland didn't show up last week, was they tried the old "hate the English" passion game, which put their heads in the wrong place, losing their new style that has been working so well. Browns tackle demonstrated this to perfection. Hit late (decision made to smash him) then spear tackle, then head butts him on the floor. Mentally gone. Controlled aggression is fine, but you need to be thinking.

Talk of a possible match between England and the ABs THIS year!

November 4th the ABs are scheduled to play the BaaBaas at Twickenham outside the international window. THey would pocket £2 million for that but it seems Ian Ritchie is considering an England/NZ game instead but the ABs want half the gate money - £3million.

CFH - its the constant denigration of Scotland from Jamba that got to me finally. He accused Brown of doing it deliberately. His hatred of Scotland and the Scots is just getting to me.

Dantsw - total nonsense. Yes Brown lost his head but there was no deliberate targeting and I really don't think you understand - the english are not hated and certainly not by the Scottish team

Well said dan

Can anyone give me a brief summary of what is the current official line and what is the current situation on the ground?

If any player makes any kind of tackle where there's any contact above the waist of the tackled player then it's a yellow card.

If the tackled player then rolls around on the ground in the manner of an association footballer - it's a red card.

[i]TJ - I'm afraid I believe Jambalaya is spot on[/i]

Agreed. Like jambalaya I'm anti Scot's being dangerous bastards!

[i]Talk of a possible match between England and the ABs THIS year![/i]

Now [i]that's[/i] interesting!

Totally agree with Jamba that Brown was fired up and went out looking to make a statement early on. Don't think that he deliberately tried to tip him, but just slightly mistimed his hit and there you go. I still think that he was quite lucky to escape a red.

Anyway, moving on to this weekend......love the final Saturday, although it does tend to mean a rather unproductive day and me hammered by 7pm!

its the constant denigration of Scotland from Jamba that got to me finally

That and the 61-21 drubbing!

😆 😆 😆

Jamba said it was a deliberate intent to injure. It wasn't and his constant hatred he shows for the scots got me angry

Anyway enough on that

Jamba said it was a deliberate intent to injure

You have to remember Jamba talks a lot of shit!!
You need to be all calm and zen like in the face of provicative shite...

You know like I am when Zokes turns up 🙁

I always assumed that a front row player in this situation early in a game would have been coached to send a message to the opposing backs. Ok perhaps not coached officially, but certainly not discouraged (providing you don't get carded, obviously)

Wales 23 unchanged for France...suprised Faletau hasnt started, he'll have to rely on Gatland giving him a free pass to the Lions.

"surprised Faletau hasn't started"

I am not , not looked his old self since coming back . Anonymous for Bath .

Browns tackle demonstrated this to perfection. Hit late (decision made to smash him) then spear tackle, then head butts him on the floor.

Dan, either you think it was a spear tackle or you think it was a tip tackle. It's very difficult to lift the legs (tip) without using the arms - practically impossible. So you can't tip and spear. It's the lack of objective observation that makes me pity some on here. (I'll put a smiley in at this point - but it only applies to the last sentence) 😉
Late I might give you. It certainly wasn't early. In fact if he'd been done for a late tackle I'd probably have said fair enough.