[Closed] Rugby thread 2016/2017

I've learned that it doesn't matter how England play - we will get slagged off.

Missed the games today. Just sitting down to breakfast. Should I bother with the highlights or just read the stupid bickering on here instead?

3 great games this weekend, all very different.

Watched the important one [s]last[/s] On Friday night, Dan

(Ninja edit!)

Sorry Flashy - some of us wanted to talk rugby.

And a cracker it was too!! If Henshaw hadn't taken flanker lessons from Jonny May, Bests try would have stood and it could have been very different!

😀

Did seem to be getting a bit silly above!

Re Henshaw, one comment I saw (I forget who!) simply said, "and that's why backs shouldn't be involved in mauls"

Will find some highlights of the Saturday game after my next flight. (Shiny new 350)

Henshaw shouldn't be castigated - Hartley did the same here but the try was given - it often happens but isn't penalised - took two videos to find an example.

England played well in attack today and were worth every one of the points they scored. A thoroughly deserved victory.
If there is any downside at all it may have been in conceding 3 tries .

It's in response to stupidity and ****wittery.

🙂

You really are grasping at straws..

Also, you do realise it's possible to be a bad loser?

Scotland came up short & to say that the result was all down to JJ really is blinkered & weak beyond belief.

Mefty - POC said on commentary that if Henshaw had put his arm around Best if would hzbd been legal. That's what Hartley does in your clip. Henshaw came from loose, drove into the man ahead of the bell carrier. Different IMHO.

Drink plenty of water Capn S

Hope the head is ok in the morning

Scotland will be annoyed at themselves, ok they lost very good players early on but some of their decision making was suicidal.

Credit to England though, they started well and played a ruthless game, they are deservedly the form side in rugby at the moment. Probably a more complete team than 2003 as well

No one Got Courtney Lawes for the Lions ? am i missing something ?

I think Launcbury has been the stand out lock and the Lions have better options at Flanker than England so Itoje plays 5.

THM...did TomB miss out the two players who DOMINATED yesterdays game too or just one? Or would answering a question with a straight answer cause you to turn into a pumpkin?

Lions:

Hogg
Nowell
JJ
Farrell
North
Sexton
Murray
Billy
Hovis
O'Stander
Itoje
Launchbury
Furlong
George/Best
Mako

Could agree with it myself apart from 2. George hasnt started an international against anyone good has he?

Scotland played to form. Have a few good performances, get carried away, then instead of playing to our strengths we try to go toe to toe and get suckered into playing to the oppositions strengths. Injury list and lack of depth hurt us and our foreign imports just aren't as good.

Was farrell s injury a clever way to shift focus to allow ford to settle into the game.

AA - you know the answer in the same we know what you were doing with the original list. Amusingly transparent.

Since non of the "captains" have played themselves firmly into the Lions 1XV (one of) your "ommisssion(s)" could well fill that role even. We shall see.

Drink plenty of water Capn S

Also, you do realise it's possible to be a bad loser?

AA - you know the answer in the same we know what you were doing with the original list. Amusingly transparent.

Since non of the "captains" have played themselves firmly into the Lions 1XV (one of) your "ommisssion(s)" could well fill that role even. We shall see.

I honestly dont..always funny to see you fail to answer questions though...I presumed one was Faz and reading that the other is Hartley. Fair picks concerned about Hartleys fitness doesnt seen to last more than 50mins we will need a captain on the pitch.
Farrel and Sexton will need to be tried together. Never seen Sexton play with an extra playmaker before. I'd also like a look at Faz at 10..
Few players in Lions contention who are playing out of position for their country who could shift back for Lions
Warburton
Faz
Itoje

I would also argue the guy who captained the last winning Lions tour has played his way into contention and seems the obvious choice.

I'm just glad England can play in a important game and not have to blame the ref/ their skippers decision making for it not panning out as they feel it should. To me that is a measure if how far they have come.

dantsw13 - Member
IGM - England have been missing a lot of top players this season, but the next cabs off the rank have more than filled the gaps. Squad strength is everything and sadly, Scotland just don't have the depth of quality. In a 6N or WC that will always bite you at some point.

Agreed. If only, but such is life.

Apparently there are 38.5k registered players in Scotland.
And almost 2m in England (around 50 times as many).

Numbers isn't everything (there are 66k players in Italy), but strength in depth is going to be a problem.

As expected England blew us away and I would like to be the first to say i'm glad England can play in a important game and not have to blame the ref/ their skippers decision making for it not panning out as they feel it should. To me that is a measure of how far they have come.

This world record thing, who had faced the tougher opponents?

.

Mefty's clip: Hartley should've been penalised for a different offence to Henshaw...
[i](c)
Placing a hand on another player in the maul does not constitute binding.[/i]

Does anybody have the list of who NZ beat on their run?

Lions XXIII

Hogg
Watson
Joseph
Farrell
North
Ford
Youngs
Vunipola B
Warburton
Robshaw
Itoje
Launchbury(c)
Cole
Hartley
Marler

Vunipola M
Furlong
George
Lawes
Stander
Care
Sexton
Daly

More chance of winning than any hotch-potch XV of players who've hardly played together.

Right so NZ beat:
Aus, Arg Nam Geo Ton Fra SA Aus Wal Wal Wal Aus Aus Arg SA Arg SA Aus.

Eng beat:
Ura Sco Ita Ire Wal Fra Wal Aus Aus Aus SA FiJ Arg Aus Fra Wal Ita Sco.

NZ run included winning WC & RC consecutively with a home series against Wales.
Englands back to back 6N, sandwiching 3 away wins in Aus and a SH Autumn International series

Right so NZ beat:
Aus, Arg Nam Geo Ton Fra SA Aus Wal Wal Wal Aus Aus Arg SA Arg SA Aus.

Eng beat:
Ura Sco Ita Ire Wal Fra Wal Aus Aus Aus SA FiJ Arg Aus Fra Wal Ita Sco.

NZ run included winning WC & RC consecutively with a home series against Wales.
Englands back to back 6N, sandwiching 3 away wins in Aus and a SH Autumn International series

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Rugby thread 2016/2017
3468 posts & 118 voices | Started 7 months ago by Pigface | Latest reply from dantsw13
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namastebuzz - Member
Lions XXIII

Hogg
Watson
JJ
Farrell
North
Ford
Youngs
Vunipola B
Warburton
Robshaw
Itoje
Launchbury
Cole
Hartley
Marler

Vunipola M
Furlong
George
Lawes
Stander
Care
Sexton
Daly

As a unit I think the Irish front row offers more, Sexton is head and shoulders best 10. 9's I dont agree with Murray and Webb are better also cant see Robshaw going without injuries to others.

I agree the individuals you mention might be better players but the team I've picked is greater.

The Irish front 3 might offer slightly more but the English tight 5 as a unit is more impressive. Besides, that lineout isn't gonna lose any of their own ball.

Maybe Itoje or Haskell at 6 with Lawes at 5 and Kruis on the bench?

Not been convinced by Stander in his performances against Scotland/Wales. Still, maybe Ireland will turn England over and I'll have egg on my face in a week's time.

Maybe Itoje or Haskell at 6 with Lawes at 5 and Kruis on the bench?

How about Dayglo, Back and Wilkinson too??!!!??

The difficulty in this Lions team is going to finding the balance. You won't beat NZ purely with flair, you have to stop them too, whilst still playing attacking rugby, which is why a player like Robshaw will be there or there about.

How about Dayglo, Back and Wilkinson too??!!!??

Now ya talkin'! With Sir Clive (Gawd bless 'im) as coach too....

Joking aside though - who would have more chance of winning a test series in NZ this summer. England or the Lions?

My answer would be England. Even if that chance is a very slim one.

Surely England plus a cherry picking of class players from the other teams in the positions they're weakest in would present the best chance?

I might have Loopy Liam at fullback though......

dantsw13 - you couldn't add up the world rankings of each of those teams at the time they lost to NZ / England?
I think that would help.

Obviously NZ's run was against better opponents but 18 is a good number either way.

Now ya talkin'! With Sir Clive (Gawd bless 'im) as coach too....

with his record as Lions coach no point in even getting on the plane 😆

a series victory against Australia has to count for a lot. Think NZ just shade it.

What Namabiaj, Georgia and Tonga? With exception of Uraguary England's overall average component looks higher.

You won't beat NZ purely with flair

Indeed, if the Lions try to out run NZ it will get messy. With the massive number of quality piano shifters our best hope is to pummel them upfront and play fast accurate ball in the backs..like England played but with bells on.

Honestly cant see what Robshaw adds that Warburton is currently not doing, apart from being much less likely to get injured which given that he is currently injured is a mute point at the moment.

Hogg
L Williams
Joseph
Farrell
North
Biggar
Murray
Vunipola B
Tipuric
Stander
Itoje
Launchbury
Cole
Hartley/Best
Furlong

Vunipola M
Fagerson
Hartley/Best
Lawes
Robshaw
Care
Ford
Daly

Not been convinced by Stander in his performances against Scotland/Wales

Fair enough but then the Welsh backrow outplayed the Irish and certainly stood toe to toe with the English despite playing behind a much weaker front 5.
Webb would also look world class behind the English pack.

Hogg
L Williams
Joseph
Farrell
North
Biggar
Murray
Vunipola B
Tipuric
Stander
Itoje
Launchbury
Cole
Hartley/Best
Furlong

Vunipola M
Fagerson
Hartley/Best
Lawes
Robshaw
Care
Ford
Daly

Dan Biggar...he would be ok if others got injured but even I wouldnt pick him!!

You have 2 tight heads and Fagerson??
Not sure Williams has the wheels to play on the wing v NZ. Nowell, Watson or Daley for me.

AA - they would both be in my squad. The one in best form fitness makes the XV

IGM - that should only take me 3 years to sort out!!

I would on balance give it to NZ, because it included the RWC. The fact Englands run includes a 3 match tour of Aus makes it very impressive too. B2B GS to get to 19 would be very impressive, especially when you consider where Eng started.

Dan Biggar...he would be ok if others got injured but even I wouldnt pick him!!

Whilst I'm not his biggest fan, Biggar is fairly consistent. The other option is putting Farrell in there......

Farrell 10 Henson 12 you knows it!!

FAO Duckman

Initially I thought this was a good call from Barnes (who was very good imo) but now???

14.1 Players on the ground

(a)

A player with the ball must immediately do one of three things:

Get up with the ball

Pass the ball

Release the ball.

Sanction: Penalty kick

[img] [/img]

Doesn't say anything about passing the ball twice!

Doesn't say anything about passing the ball twice!

Exactly!!

In the cold morning light my depression is starting to lift and I'm not going to let yesterday's result get to me too much. These things happen. Just this season it's happened the other way around with that thumping away win by Glasgow against Leicester, a Glasgow team who make up the majority of this Scotland team.

By the way, anyone who says that Finn Russell's performance yesterday shows that he isn't Lions material should take a look at Ben Young's performance in that Leicester game. Any scrum-half or fly-half will at best struggle and probably have a howler with a pack going backwards that quickly. Russell may not be a Lion but it shouldn't be because of a single performance.

Sometimes you have a bad day at the office and that's all that happened. In games where the score starts to run away from you they often turn into complete routes. It's worth remembering that we were one try away from a bonus point. England should probably remember that too.

What it comes down to is the fact that we are a country with two professional teams without even a semi-professional feeder league. Injuries will kill us.

So, congratulations to England but you should probably be telling yourselves the same thing that Scotland should be telling themselves which is 'This too shall pass'.

Oh, and another thing. We're odds on favourite to finish second. Which naturally means we'll end up fifth.

Bruce - you are correct.

So, congratulations to England but you should probably be telling yourselves the same thing that Scotland should be telling themselves which is 'This too shall pass'.

Someone is most definitely not happy;
http://www.scottishrugbyblog.co.uk/2017/03/england-v-scotland-player-ratings/
Crikey!!!!

By the way, anyone who says that Finn Russell's performance yesterday shows that he isn't Lions material should take a look at Ben Young's performance in that Leicester game. Any scrum-half or fly-half will at best struggle and probably have a howler with a pack going backwards that quickly. Russell may not be a Lion but it shouldn't be because of a single performance.

100% agree

Scotland shouldn't be too down on themselves. They have made v significant progress and have made the 6N a better championship as a result. They managed to win two matches that the other sides conspired to loose - and no harm in that, other than expectations were built up far too high for the Calcutta Cup*. Yesterday was a simple lesson in realism. England are currently a better side and it showed. They took the recent criticism on the chin, worked out what to do and played very, very well as a TEAM. Plus home advantage is important, as we may see next week.

What's the point in all the comparison stuff? The AB are better than England. We know that, so what? Does not take anything away from the run that EJ has put together with much the same team that people loved to ridicule after the RWC. Who knows where they could be in 3-4 years time.

The point about balance for the Lions ^ is a very good won. There must be a temptation to put the best players down (even out of position) in the (false) hope that this makes the best team. It doesnt. This will be crucial in front five and 9/10/12 choices IMO

* one bright side of being on ITV was at least we avoided the Nicol/Cotter hyperbole overload. Greg Laidlaw and Geeks make much better pundits. But Sir Clive needs serious help with his wardrobe - looks like a 90 year old trying to look smart for a family do, with clothes that have been in the wardrobe from 15 years

The point about balance for the Lions ^ is a very good won. There must be a temptation to put the best players down (even out of position) in the (false) hope that this makes the best team. It doesnt. This will be crucial in front five and 9/10/12 choices IMO

😆 😆
Last time when Gatland did that fir the final test the English and Irish went into meltdown!!

Won one
Loose lose
Standards dear boy standards

Well last time he went for Wales + a few good 'uns from the other home nations and it worked. Albeit against a disorganised and dishevelled Australia.

If he continues that trait then hopefully he'll go for England + a few good 'uns against a very good NZ.

Englands strongest side, Irish 9/10, Hogg FB, Stander & Tipuric with Billy V, Liam W on wing would be a hell of a side.

I see it's a 34 man squad, so 2 of each position. Extra 9, 10, hooker & prop?

a_a he's on the ground so out of the game.

All the rules about what you must do are if you are the ball carrier. Can't be a receiver if you're on the deck.

Oh, and another thing. We're odds on favourite to finish second. Which naturally means we'll end up fifth.

Too true

I actually couldn't watch whole game yesterday! From what I did see tho England came out playing well and everything that could go wrong for Scotland did so. Once that first 15 mins was over the whole game changed with England in a comfortable lead and full of confidence. Best England performance for years I thought. Scotland from then on its damage limitation and this is not really a team for that sort of game plan. The injuries really blunted our attack and wrecked defensive patterns. Stats make some interesting reading in that possession and territory were very even and Scotland did create chances that they never took.

Scotland did well to score the three tries which is scant consolation for being beaten by 40 pts

[quote="wrecker"]

Someone is most definitely not happy;
http://www.scottishrugbyblog.co.uk/2017/03/england-v-scotland-player-ratings/
Crikey!!!!

Thats actually really good analysis

I thought Weir showed a lot of guts at full back...only an idiot would ask him to do it again unless a situation like yesterday arose again but he should my heart than a very good number.

The fact England are likely to beat NZ's record just show menaingless records are. They are back to back world champions and head and shoulders better than England. Yes we might surprise them an win a game as we have done in the past but over a series we'd lose.

Jambafact....

Ok so England are not back to back world champions but to go 18 games unbeaten is a massive achievement for any side, shows consistency and ability.
Yeah ok they are not up there with nz at the moment but that's not a surprise, as EJ said yesterday they are a year into a 4 year cycle.
Who knows what the record could be by then, by England, nz or others

I think the world rankings area pretty fair reflection really. NZ out in front, England chasing hard, Aus clearly third

Scotland have joined the chasing pack in places 4-9 having threatened to drop out of the battle for a top eight place. there is really little to chose from in this group - all capable of beating each other

This really is building into a very good England team.

I am delighted at our results just not getting ahead of myself. I think we could and indeed should have had a decent run at the RWC aside from strange selection switches at the last minute at fly half and the rugby league fiasco.

We have to be honest and say Wales, Ireland and France are far below their level of a few years ago.

We have to be honest and say Wales, Ireland and France are far below their level of a few years ago.

France are better than they were, Wales have stayed still and Ireland are a bit up and down. England have improved a lot. Itoje, Kruis, Billy V, Watson, Nowell and Ford have all added significantly to the team. The coaching of the backs especially is clearly light years ahead of what it was.

I agree with that - I've never seen England backs pass like they do at times at the moment e.g. Farrell's pass to daly against wales. Normally we'd butcher chances like that 9 times out of 10

Why do Scotland seem to be so prone to head injuries at the moment, they have lost so many players during matches. What's going on?

I've never seen England backs pass like they do at times at the moment

Except for Mike Brown who generally doesn't pass and wouldn't know an overlap if it smacked him in the face.

We really need a competent, attacking full-back. Watson should have been tried already, or Daly, or Nowell or anyone that doesn't constantly butcher opportunities.

It is worth putting the NZ record into context, the 2003 England side would have had a streak of 25 wins if Woodward hadn't agreed to field a second string team against France in the warm ups - so the French could have a good home send -off. Other than that match, the Irish were next to beat us.

[quote="grahamt1980"]

Why do Scotland seem to be so prone to head injuries at the moment, they have lost so many players during matches. What's going on?

Bad luck on the number of knocks, a very cautious approach to HIAs / return to play protocols means players are almost never put back on the pitch then have to undergo the protocols so spend more time off.

Understand, its just Scotland seem to have more than any of the other 6n teams in this championship.
Not a dig just genuinely wondering if this is the case

Scotland doc and team are very active in head injury assessment research from what I've seen at conferences so chances are they are just making more effort to do things properly unlike others (eg North being knocked out clashing with Hibbard and the welsh medics claim to have not noticed a thing!)

That's cool to know.
Let's hope the other teams follow suit then

For some meaningless pondering then; who'd win the WRC next weekend if Saturdays England team played the 2003 RWC England team as they were on that day in 2003?

What a thought. Dallaglio vs Billy V. Johnson vs Itoje. Wilkinson vs Farrell, Care vs Dawson... etc.

As a guess i would think the current team simply due to conditioning. Probably be close for 60 mins then the fitness would show

What a thought. Dallaglio vs Billy V. Johnson vs Itoje. Wilkinson vs Farrell, Care vs Dawson... etc.

Do you even watch your team? Itoje v Hill Farrell v Greenwood and Yongs is your starting 9.

Im tempted to say that 2003 pack would eat the current one for breakfast but they aren't allowed to punch each other nowadays so who knows?
My main criticism of the current front 8 is that it lacks bite (Hartley pun intended)

The difference in size and fitness would simply be too great with the modern day players. It would be no contest