[Closed] Rugby thread 2016/2017

So I v AUS or W v Boks?

Good win from Scotland. 6 tries. 😯

I certainly wouldnt say he is a distance better than CJ Stander

NZ or Aus would have beaten us today.

Cant see Wales winning. Dismal so far. I am expecting to see us struggle to win 1 or 2 in the SixNations

Glad Connor recovered quickly there 😉

Always enjoy watching Irish and Aussie backs attacking at pace and from deep.

Aussies gouging AND dangerous tackle at only get one yellow. Lucky boys.

Nice Irish try

Tipuric is Wales best back!

Never been so depressed watching us beat SA!

Dreadful reffing at the maul. At least give it a chance to come out!

Nice win but not getting carried away S.A. Were shocking and not interested.

That will be remembered as 'the tedious game when we beat the worst south African team ever 'game.Wonder how that will market that dvd.

France NZ started as I would have expected 0-7 after 5 mins but France are having a go at least

6-10 France right back in it, on NZ line with men over ... throw an interception to Barret (in fairness very nicely picked off) 6-17 🙁

19-24 thought France where the better side in many respects, NZ efficient and clinical as always, end of tour fatigue ? French try worth a watch. Young replacement s/h Serin doesn't lack confidence 🙂

England played poorly. Ford was crap, Harrison is turd, Farrell left loads of points out there, May generally good but is easily manipulated. Wood needs to put his bulk back on. Whole team very poor in defence, they got tore apart so many times.

I don't think the defence was that bad given that we were down to 14 men for 75 mins and made a shit load of tackles compared to Argentina. Being a man down, I'd expect the opposition to make some yards. I wonder how Jones will deal with Daly; will this be the last we see of him for some time? I hope not.

Harrison doesn't look up to international rugby plus he doesn't look physical enough. Has Wood lost bulk? He's always look spindly and not great at the hard yards. I didn't think he did too badly. Kreisler did well. Hopefully today will be a wake up call.

Wales SA was a shit game. SA were almost totally inept; the handling diabolical.

The 6N will be interesting next year. Ireland look very good at the moment and seem very accurate. England look dangerous if sloppy. Scotland seem to be coming good. France, well who knows. Wales seem to be struggling to moe to a faster game and Italy will probably bring up the rear.

I wonder how Jones will deal with Daly

Well I dont think he'll play him on the wing again!! Jones biggest **** up thus far!

Ford was crap

First choice 10 and we are unbeaten this year, no coincidence imo 😉 To be clear I have seen none of the game !

From what I have seen this autumn is there one international game it would have been worth paying money to see ?

Well I dont think he'll play him on the wing again!! Jones biggest **** up thus far!

Just watched the Eng highlights, despite being at the game, I'm as mystified as I was earlier at some of the reffing decisions (red card aside - that was very clear). Cole was badly done in at the scrum and proved a bit of a point after.
First time I've seen a crowd properly boo the game as well...

i think the tackle count was something like 150 vs 50. Bloody good show Eng winning that given the loss of a player

Well I dont think he'll play him on the wing again!! Jones biggest **** up thus far!

I think that's a bit harsh; Daly last week out of position was very good. He's quick, has a massive boot and looks for a lot of work. Roko looked good in attack but was squiffy defensively. Daly's are today as justified without a doubt but it was clumsy rather than malicious.

Guys like Marler are more of an issue. He always seems to be involved in some form of stupidity and nights that is never too far from a penalty or a yellow.

Based on the Autumn tests..The RC teams are knackered and the form NH team is Ireland. Can I also just depress the England fans by pointing out that the last time you beat a team from the RC while reduced to 13 men,your back row was Hill, Dilly-dally and Back. 😀
Sanctions are applied on two criteria, outcome is most important and THEN intent is taken in by the hearing. So England red was very clear-cut, Argentina one "could" have been yellow,but could just as likely ended the way it did. Promotion and relegation to the 6N is needed,Georgia showed that yesterday, but the home unions won't risk the revenue streams; so what now for both Georgia and indeed Italy?

Go easy on us ducks, it's tough supporting England at the moment

He was an idiot today, but being on the wing wasn't why.

Wings do a lot more chasing high kicks and like anything its a skill you practise. To say it was clumsey is wrong, Daly is certainly not a clumsey player, if you want to see the definition of clumsey wing play watch Cuthbert if he can manage not to tip people on their head then anyone with opposable thumbs should be able to!

Just looked up the Six Nations fixtures. Wales have Italy away first up!! Lose that and we are screwed. Have England and Ireland at home on current form we'll be lucky to get within 20-30 points of them and then Scotland away... could easily not win a game!

I'm sure THM,must be shite supporting the unbeaten GS winners.

@duckman I think you'll fund he was being sarcastic. Beating a RC with 13 should men not be possible.

First choice 10 and we are unbeaten this year, no coincidence imo To be clear I have seen none of the game !

Wings do a lot more chasing high kicks and like anything its a skill you practise

True but if you watch Wasps they always kick off high and deep and Daly is always the chaser. His speed almost always gets him there as the ball lands so he has plenty of practice chasing high kicks.

I think Jones sees him at fullback in the future. He's going to create a lot more tries than Brown ever has.

As for England not being good against Argentina. WTF?

The Argies are a pretty decent side and playing the whole game with 14 (or fewer) men was a great effort. THe best bit was OF kicking so poorly. Maybe EJ will realise that he's not indispensable after all and pick someone at 12 who's a threat with the ball.

Jam; We know one another well enough...so was I!

It'll be interesting to see who replaces Billy. It looked pretty serious. Hughes has had an injury no has t really set the work alight coming off the bench. A test start against an Australian team looking for revenge could be a big ask.

How has Morgan's form been? He's always been pretty good for England despite so so firm at club level.

Beaumont?

Beaumont isnt very like for like. Vunipola, Hughes and Morgan are very much power ball carriers. Beaumont isnt and would require a re think of the backrow imo as Robshaw and Wood are not big carriers either.

Duckman - thanks for the clarification on that (aren't you a ref, seem to remember?). I'm married to a lawyer and we have heated arguments over whether people should be punished for their actions, or the outcome off their actions. It's my opinion that the only way to change behaviour is to make the intent to commit an offence punishable, not react to the outcome. Ban all drivers on mobile phones, not just the ones that kill someone.

For Italy, I think they need to attract more of their players to their domestic sides, making them more competitive in Euro competitions, which will feed through. It's good to see Georgia getting matches against the 6N teams. If they start winning then the clamour for inclusion will increase.

We're back to thinking that Farrell is shit now are we? Can't believe the criticism of some of the England players here......averaging nearly 4 tries per game under EJ.....I'm no huge Ford fan either, but with ball in hand, the backs do look really dangerous. Him and Farrell are doing more than enough to keep their places currently. I'd say Anthony Watson is the long term option at 15 rather than Daly.

First ever time watching England at Twickenham yesterday......bloody loved every second of it 😀

We're back to thinking that Farrell is shit now are we? Can't believe the criticism of some of the England players here......averaging nearly 4 tries per game under EJ.....I'm no huge Ford fan either, but with ball in hand, the backs do look really dangerous. Him and Farrell are doing more than enough to keep their places currently. I'd say Anthony Watson is the long term option at 15 rather than Daly.

Well I've never liked Farrell. Competent though he is. He's not a centre and isn't really much of a threat ball in hand although he has learned to do a lot more than just kick the ball up in the air - which used to be his default setting.

I think England have developed brilliantly under EJ but it's still a work in progress. If Farrell wasn't such a great kicker would he be in the side? Maybe not. Ford is potentially a great fly-half and I'd like to see a proper centre outside him. Farrell would be a good "closer" off the bench.

Watson should be at 15 - you're right - but so far EJ has shown no inclination to play him there. Maybe he's been too effective on the wing for his own good. We'll never reach our full potential with either Brown or Goode at fullback. That's for sure.

I thought that Farrell was a centre and not a FH? (Not pointing the finger at you for that btw...thought it was the stw consensus) Be interesting to see if Slade can get back to form after his injury.....I wonder where he fits into the equation? Personally I think that Manu's England days are over.....when you miss so much international rugby, times move on. It happened with Tom Croft too.

For [s]Italy[/s] Wales, I think they need to attract more of their players to their domestic sides, making them more competitive in Euro competitions, which will feed through.

FIFY.
To be honest though the welsh regions have no chance unless they can match the English clubs budgets and attract top SH talent to fill a few gaps. We could follow the Scots plan and reduce to two regiobs and kill the domestic pro game but that wont work long term.

I'm married to a lawyer and we have heated arguments over whether people should be punished for their actions, or the outcome off their actions.

Just proof reading son's essay on outcomes based regulation in law!! full of paradoxes....as yesterday showed in the case of high tackles. 😉

Tom - because they play for England, simple.

The dozy Argentinian didnt tackle the player though he just ran into him. Daly properly grabbed his legs.

England's Billy Vunipola is likely to miss the Six Nations with a knee injury which will keep him out of action for up to four months.

The Saracens number eight picked up the injury during England's win over Argentina at Twickenham on Saturday.

He underwent surgery on Sunday and is not expected to recover in time for the Six Nations, which begin on 4 February.

Bugger.

Thats shit news.

Yep, feel for him for that. Looked like a nothing injury as well.

Daily has had lots and lots of high ball practice at Wasps. He's normally bloody good under it as well. I still don't think it was malicious, it was an utter brain fart moment. He won't figure next weekend as he'll be serving a ban but he'll be back in the mix for the six nations, along with Watson, Manu the Exeter winger and the great lock from Saracens. Can't wait already!

Reminds me of...

[img] [/img]

AA - are you looking at the crooked feed in that scrum? If so, there wasn't a straight one from either side all game.

I believe he's focussing more on Jonny May's emergence as the answer the Englands openside woes. You can't see it in that gif but he originally tried binding on the prop as well and wood has to pull him back haha

Didn't spot that!!

All home nations squads looking a bit stretched for next w/e. Aus will be out for revenge at Twickers.

Dan, every scrum in the last year has been fed in to the second row! (ATL on one of yours today, BTW)

All home nations squads looking a bit stretched for next w/e.

Its only England playing isnt it.
The gif was for the comedy value of May trying to stick his head up Vunipolas arse!

🙂 I think it was a case of "be gentle it's my first time"

Obvious outcome when you send a boy to do a mans job. (every offence intended to backs.)

Obvious outcome when you send a boy to do a mans job. (every offence intended to backs.)

Burrell seemed to enjoy his time at flanker on Friday night when Saints were down a player.

I admit I haven't looked at the fixtures yet for next week, so maybe it is. Are we expecting many of the sickies to be fit again for next weekend?

TBH the fact that England ended up with May playing back row in the scrum, and we still held on for a 14/13 man win is impressive. We were never going to play an open game in that situation.

CFH - one day the stars will align and you'll have to suffer one of my landings 😯

😀

Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing!

Daly banned for three weeks.

Blow for Wasps that with the return to Europe on the way.

Robert Kitson in today's Guardian with his pointless but fun Lions Test selection,

Lions 2017 Test XV?
S Hogg (Scotland); L Williams (Wales), E Daly (England), R Henshaw (Ireland), G North (Wales); O Farrell (England), C Murray (Ireland); M Vunipola (England), D Hartley (England), T Furlong (Ireland), AW Jones (Wales), M Itoje (England), CJ Stander (Ireland), S O’Brien (Ireland), B Vunipola (England).

Replacements: R Best (Ireland), J McGrath (Ireland), W Nel (Scotland), I Henderson (Ireland), T Faletau (Wales), B Youngs (England), J Sexton (Ireland), J Nowell (England).

One of two Grays at Second row and Best at Hooker. Nel was injured for the whole series so I don't know how he makes the bench. Mind you so was Itoje and he is starting.

Lions:

15. L Williams
14. May
13. Henshaw
12. Farrell
11. North
10. Sexton
9. Murray
8. Billy V
7. SOB
6. Stander
5. Itoje
4. AWJ/Grey
3. Nel
2. Hartley
1. Marler

Hartley in? Surely he's the second best hooker in his own team...!?

I agree....still a long way ahead of anyone from Scotland and Wales, and ahead of Best based on his lineout throwing. Think George will struggle to get a game if he's not first choice for England....plus Hartley is a much better thrower than him too.....I think that set piece will be very important given how well NZ control territory.

Hogg
North
Dont know
Gavin Henson
Watson
Russel
Murray
B Vunipola
Tipuric
Robshaw
Itoje
Kruis
Furlong
Best
M Vunipola

Sinkler
Hartley
McGrath
J Gray
Faletau
Webb
Farrel
Loopy Liam

I see Kitson has picked Noth on the left wing as most of his games for Wales have been but he always seems to play better on the right.

L Williams

Watson
Joseph
Henshaw
North

Ford
Murray

Faletau
O'Brien
Stander
Itoje
Kruis
Nel
Hartley (c)
M Vunipola

Surprised that people favour Mako it loosehead, for me, he is still a relatively weak scrummager. England scrum is far stronger with Marler at 1.

yes, although I never used to rate Marler in the scrum either.
I do think our scrum gets better when Hartley goes off, that may be something.
Anyway, the Lions are going to be smashed as it'll be year end, a mass of games and broken bodies everywhere against a team that'd very likely win no matter what time of year and how fit the best players were! I'll still watch it though.

Surprised that people favour Mako it loosehead, for me, he is still a relatively weak scrummager.

Mako brings much more and isnt a massive ****. He's also Welsh 😉
NZ are "relatively" weak in the scrum and rarely look to exploit it anyway other than to attack from.

Joseph Henshaw and Ford looks good but we need to see if Ford can kick under pressure and if he needs his hand held by another 10 at 12. If Ford starts without Faz then 1/2p might be needed. Sexton is just too fragile IMO.

Joseph Henshaw and Ford looks good but we need to see if Ford can kick under pressure

That won't matter - with my XV we'll outscore them with tries...... 😉

that won't matter - with my XV we'll outscore them with tries......

Of course, silly me!

15. L Williams
14. Watson
13. Henshaw
12. Farrell
11. North
10. Sexton
9. Murray
8. Billy V
7. Tipuric
6. Robshaw
5. Itoje
4. Grey/Kruis
3. Nel
2. Best(c)
1. Mako V

Bench; Furlong, Marler, Hartley, AWJ, SOB, Daly, Webb, Slade.

Starting 15 is just a part of it, it's a 23 man game now more than it ever has been.

Agreed that if Ford is at 10 and Farrell isn't 12 then 1/2p has to start.....I'd argue that it's the case with Sexton too. Do we think Farrell will tour as a 10?

Surprised that people favour Mako it loosehead, for me, he is still a relatively weak scrummager. England scrum is far stronger with Marler at 1.

But Mako isn't a walking penalty / yellow card. Marler always seems to get involved in something stupid.

Looks like Yarde and Roko are fighting for the vacant wing spot as both have been retained.

Mako does a LOT more around the park. Overall I think his contribution to a game is greater so long as the scrum isn't going backwards, and with the kind of pack the lions could put out I very much doubt it would.

Agreed that if Ford is at 10 and Farrell isn't 12 then 1/2p has to start...

1/2p will be lucky to tour at the moment.

Bonus points for next year's 6 Nations it appears. Wonder how much difference it will make

Bonus points for next year's 6 Nations it appears. Wonder how much difference it will make?

I think that if you looked back over all the 6N only one would have had a different winner with a BP system IIRC.

Teams might have played differently, however, if there had been bonus points on offer so we'll never know.

It's funny how the 6N were saying after last year's championship that they were not even going to consider bonus points and, suddenly, here they are!

* Four points for a win, two points for a draw and zero points for a defeat

* One bonus point for scoring four tries or more

* One bonus pont for finishing within seven points of the opposition in a defeat

* Two bonus points for scoring four tries or more and finishing within seven points of the opposition in a defeat

* Three bonus points for any team that wins the Grand Slam

The 3pts for winning the Grand Slam makes sense because, in theory, a team could win all five matches scoring three tries (or fewer) each time and end up with 20pts but the 2nd place team could get 4 bonus point wins and lose the decider with 2 BPs thereby getting 22pts overall.

Seems to work in the AP, teams keep aiming for the 4th try in caase someone else wins as many matches as them. Ditto the last minute plays to get within 7 points. Should encourage more try's per game which is all good.

Lions backs, my 2 pence. If h/p is fully fit he will play and will be the kicker. This is then tricky for Farrell (who may not even go on the tour ?) who I don't see as a Lions 12 and Sexton will be first choice as it's Gatland again.

This is then tricky for Farrell (who may not even go on the tour ?)

So who will go in his place then Jamba?

Cips? 😆