BIL Fin Russel 4 touches turned the ball over twice and threw a bouncing ball at Seymours knees with another. His long 22 drop out was ok though!!
When evaluating players it's very important to look at the smallest example of their playing performances you can find.
Taking into account the fact that he was the most important factor in beating Australia would be ignorant and a mistake only people lacking in rugby watching expertise would make. Afterall, the current Australia team might as well be Zebre compared to the might of the side that faced the Lions four years ago!
Contrary to what TJ says, I don't think that Russell needs specific players around him. I think any players who can provide close support and play what's in front of them as opposed to sticking to the game plan at all costs would do fine.
Fair enough Bruce - its just that Russell plays in such a different way to the other 10s on tour and he has spent all his pro career playing with the same guys pretty much that those guys are used to his way of playing. Its not as off the cuff as it seems tho.
You've got to remember that the Glasgow players had to get used to playing around Nico Matawalu and Leone Nakawara before Russell became a fixture in the squad. Compared to them Russell must seem positively boring 🙂
Yeah...cheers for that!
At least agent Howlercwont have ruined many Scots!!
AA;Bearing in mind some of the appointments by the SRU, he was probably interviewed for the Scotland job...Not as if we don't have previous for hiring the WRU'S leavings.
Given that we hare looking very much like a 3 nil stuffing in NZ playing a fairly conventional NH style of play would we have been better going with a young fast skillful and above all else daring lineup? Scarlets won the pro 12 like this, Exeter the ap.
Of course that could have meant a worse stuffing but it could also have challenged the NZ in ways they weren't expecting.
Rob Baxter would have been my choice for coach
A lightweight mobile back row to challenge for their ball and cause trouble all over the park. Playing 2x7s ie Tips and Watson with Barclay at 8. Russell or Ford at 10, Ringrose in the centres. these sorts of guys
Go on AA - take me to pieces 🙂
Cotter for me,he managed to polish the Scottish turd, there can be no better reference.
Both those guys werent available.
The predictions of doom started out with not wining any games.
Playing a different gameplan would no doubt need more time to achieve. I dont think Gatland is that great and I'm hoping he stays in NZ but I dont think another coach would have done much better. Maybe but I guess we will never know.
Playing 2x7s ie Tips and Watson with Barclay at 8
Dear god no POM, SOB and Faletau got ruined physically, those 3 would need the ****ing space shuttle to get them out of orbit at 1/2 time!!
I dont think another coach would have done much better. Maybe but I guess we will never know.
It may appear that the 2021 Lions will be Eddie Jones swansong?
I'm beginnning to believe that with Lawes & Itoje to defend the fringes and later Henderson to do the same on for Lawes, Plan A could actually work with the same backs as last week pushing up. We suffocate them, avoid the fringe detriment from last week and it starts to look like a commendable plan
That's a great plan! I'm sure Steve Hansen won't have thought about any of that and I'm sure the All Blacks won't have learned anything from last week at all. They'll probably just do exactly the same as they did and we'll outfox them completely.
We're on the brink of history - a come from behind series win in New Zealand...... 😉
The funny thing is last week they tore us a new arsehole up front, next week when we tighten up eound the fringes they'll go wide.
This morning for Gatland to name the team isn't it?
Yup.
AWJ retains his place (how?), Te'o to the bench with Sexton and Farrell combining (hmmmm....) and Warburton starts in place of POM. Lawes and Nowell make the bench.
L Williams (Wales), A Watson (England), J Davies (Wales), O Farrell, E Daly (both England), J Sexton, C Murray (both Ireland), M Vunipola, J George (both England), T Furlong (Ireland), M Itoje (England), AW Jones, S Warburton (both Wales, capt), S O'Brien (Ireland), T Faletau (Wales).
Replacements: K Owens (Wales), J McGrath (Ireland), K Sinckler, C Lawes (both England), CJ Stander (Ireland), R Webb (Wales), B Te'o, J Nowell (both England).
Te'o gets the axe for not spotting an overlap (according to Gatland). Seems a bit harsh when he managed to go toe to toe with SBW, something that Farrell won't be able to do. Pretty sure he's not the first Lion to butcher a try scoring opportunity this tour.
North on his way home with a dodgy hamstring and the six replacements are packing their bags too. Feel for those guys a bit.
Henderson should be in for AWJ. Other than that a strong team although the ABs may see Farrell as a weak link in the centre.
No way could Henderson play again on saturday. AWJ and Itoje is a very exciting combination but not the one I'd have chosen with the options available I'd have gone with Kruis and Itoje, Itoje and Lawes would seem to lack balance IMO even though those two have been the best locks on tour.
Warburton for POM is fair enough POM was quiet last week and Warburton tasked with tackling hard all day from 6 will add something if he is fit.
Sexton and Faz is the gamble and they do need to try and create, hopefully it will also mean Sexton gets some ball to play with from Murray.
Pleased for Nowel who has fought back from having a complete mare in his first game to the test 23, the bench is certainly one chosen for attack.
AWJ starts and Teo benched? A mistake IMO, we'll be leaking tries first half as SBW runs riot. Clearly a side picked for kick/forwards strategy.
So what we'll see is a first half loss with Teo, Lawes and Nowell on later to try to save the day. Then that finishing team is basically the team to salvage something out of the 3rd test. Gatland has been woo'ed for the Jones "finishers" strategy but team framework is not the same as Englands
No way could Henderson play again on saturday.
Agreed but he should have been withdrawn with Lawes to give that option.
Kruis could have played midweek if Gats knew he was getting axed.
SBW will be licking his lips facing Farrell.
No way could Henderson play again on saturday.
Agreed but he should have been withdrawn with Lawes to give that option.Kruis could have played midweek if Gats knew he was getting axed.
Yes but his cystal ball didnt see Hendersons display coming which tbf nor did most others and Kruis would have had to back up from Sat to Tuesday also a huge/daft ask.
Clearly a side picked for kick/forwards strategy.
So Gatland picks a second playmaker in midfield as the previous 12 cannot pass and you criticise it as a forwards/kicking strategy. I get you dont like him but just stick to the facts, you are making yourself look stupid, again. There's enough to question/criticise anyway.
TJ me too 😉
Gatland never started Sexton and Farrell, they have only played 23 mins and now that's the favoured line up ?
AWJ being retained highlights the original mistake of not selecting Launchbury. Kruis was out most of the season and has never quite regained the form that would have made him nailed on test starter whereas Launchbury played at or near MoM level most of the year.
Now with AWJ slightly off the pace Launchbury would've been the ideal partner for Itoje - but he's not there.
Farrell at 12? Picked as a 10. Played as a 10 all tour except for injury cover. Now he's at 12. Smacks of desperation to me.
He's not gonna stop SBW. Farrell can't actually tackle very well - in case nobody's noticed.
Whatever Farrell is he is not a 12. Gonna be a stuffing. AWJ should be nowhere near the team given the quality of the locks available. Warburton I have my doubts over but at least when he came on last week he did try to contest the breakdown even if he was ineffective.
If you want a tackler, bring in Tipuric
Brilliant!
I am looking forward to seeing what the rugby forum I am on has to say about this. AA would seem like the voice of reason over there! 😉
So Gatland picks a second playmaker in midfield as the previous 12 cannot pass and you criticise it as a forwards/kicking strategy. I get you dont like him but just stick to the facts, you are making yourself look stupid, again. There's enough to question/criticise anyway.
I really don't know why you and the other can't have a dialogue without throwing insults.
Here's some facts for you. Everyone agrees Teo contained SBW last test who then opened up with Farrell on later; Farrell isn't a go-forward line busting centre, fast in retreat or a huge tackler; yes he's a play maker, but to who? Davies, Williams & Watson most likely which extends the back line outwards into touch in a team thats shown not much invention (than a few glimpses) and passes straight down the line for the most part.
Not sure how you think Farrell poses any more threat than Teo who can at least break the line. So, Farrells there to take the heat from Sexton and the first half is aimed at keeping the AB's pinned back and locked into the set piece. But unless Farrell has a monster game the AB's centres will be licking their lips and come straight down that channel and popping inside or kicking through. Teo can't pass? Well there's been more than evidence of that, not least the fact he hasn't had the opportunity to do so as he hasn't been supported properly during most of his breaks - check your famous video clips thats easy to spot if you can bear to post one that actually evidences my statement rather than highlights how this team should really be the Welsh 15.
SBW will have a field day; he picked Sexton out a couple of times last week and Farrell has a habit of tackling too high / upright so he'll probably get bounced off. Te'o took the game to him a bit and his passing isn't that bad.
Farrell works a centre for England because they play differently and look to use a bit more pace in the centres with JJ. They'd still struggle against tge AB's because the like of SBW would muller Ford.
It seems an odd choice to play Sexton and Farrell given how little game time they've had together.
The harsh reality is that whatever team is picked will probably go down by 15 pts. Lions teams will never be as slick as a well drilled club team or established international side. Hence the favoured more basic tactics.
Gatland never started Sexton and Farrell, they have only played 23 mins and now that's the favoured line up ?
He may have planned to but Faz getting injured stopped it. Who knows.
I really don't know why you and the other can't have a dialogue without throwing insults.
Saying you are making yourself stpid is hardly the insult of the century, its merely a comment on what you write. Its drivel.
yes he's a play maker, but to who? Davies, Williams & Watson most likely which extends the back line outwards into touch in a team thats shown not much invention (than a few glimpses) and passes straight down the line for the most part.
See this makes no actual sense.
AWJ being retained highlights the original mistake of not selecting Launchbury.
Yep
I was unconvinced by Teo from his time at Leinster but for me he has been one of the Lions best backs on tour. Sexton and Farrell both tackle high and I can't see both lasting beyond 50 mins. As we saw last week this is the crucial period of the game.
Farrell's no 12 eh TJ? Really tough on that bloke....first half of his career he was 'no 10' then in recent years, having played at 12, we're told he's 'no 12'. He's hardly won anything as a player at either 10 or 12 has he so maybe everyone is right. Perhaps he needs to move to 15? Or convert to league?!
*I am in no way saying that Farrell is going to mark SBW out of the game in the way O'Teo did.
I think that the changes are about right. Especially Hovis and Itoje coming in. As others have said though, leaving Launchbury at home is starting to look like an even worse idea!
I was unconvinced by Teo from his time at Leinster but for me he has been one of the Lions best backs on tour
TBF to him he has played at his best and been decent, but like Jamie Roberts for all his positives he does limit the backline especially if the 10's on tour are Sexton, Faz and Biggar. He may look better outside a Ford or Russell.
Faz certainly looked like a 12 when he helped shred the Scottish midfield this season, he also looked good passing to put Daly beyond Cuthbert.
None of this really matters if the pack dont turn it on this week.
Its drivel.
But apparently many people agreed, see above for starters. Perhaps you're unable to communicate or believe anyone other you knows anything about rugby, or perhaps you're too egotistical to admit you are wrong. Either way, why not keep the piece and desensitise your vocabulary?
Have a good day AA.
Agreed Tom on Farrell, hes played at the highest level as a 10 and 12, yet all he gets from 'fans' is criticism. Oddly the coaches, players and pundits all seem to rate him as one of the best players in the world.
Tom - I already said I would have Farrell at 10 as he has played the best of the 3 on tour IMO
He was only shoehorned into 12 for England as Jones didn't trust Fords kicking.
NZ by 25 points. Farrell to be smashed by SBW
or perhaps you're too egotistical to admit you are wrong.
or perhaps YOU are so egotistical you believe you know better than the Lion coach whilst writing stuff that is complete and utter bobbins.
check your famous video clips thats easy to spot if you can bear to post one that actually evidences my statement rather than highlights how this team should really be the Welsh 15.
Firstly feel free to provide video evidence of Teo's fine passing game, secondly Faz was English last time I looked and I'm presenting the case in favour of an English player, I'd love to have him available to Wales but he isnt.
I guess the plan is to try and play on the front foot. Can't say I expect much from the Lions in defence though, Farrell's tackling is pants.
Tom - I already said I would have Farrell at 10 as he has played the best of the 3 on tour IMOHe was only shoehorned into 12 for England as Jones didn't trust Fords kicking.
But you still think he's poo despite what he's won at a young age and how he's rated by many.
He's certainly won me over but I do worry about him against SBW who offers more than just being a lump, especially outside a 10 he's not played against much.
I guess the plan is to try and play on the front foot.
I would guess every team in the history of rugby has wanted this.
Faz's tackling is OK but he has a tendency to shoot out of the line which NZ will look to exploit.
AA - you do come over as very antagonistic at times - toning it down a bit would help the debate being civilised 😉
Yeah he does run out of the line quickly in defence a_a....England have played this way as a whole under Jones...guess it's McCall's input as defence coach. I think Farrell does it a lot of the time to minimise the risk of much bigger ball carriers getting any momentum and running through him-he's always usually into double figures for tackles when playing for England (as any inside centre would be I guess)
AA - you do come over as very antagonistic at times
I am!!
toning it down a bit would help the debate being civilised
Maybe but exchanging pleasantries with people who clearly are letting their prejudice get in the way of common sense is not for me..
And yes I do see the irony, but I am also happy to admit my errors of judgement. Too many on here seem hell bent on being critical of Gatland because he's Gatland which is fine but dont try to dress it up as anything else. Trying to make out that picking Faz at 12 is evidence of a forwards dominated strategy is bonkers frankly and I reserve the right to point this out, (as would be picking Henderson to play on saturday after playing on Tuesday). Kryton is critical of trying to bring Davies, Watson, Daly and Williams into play more (despite them being Wales best attacking threats last week) whilst at the same time saying its indicative of a kick and clap policy, I'll say again, its drivel.
Lets criticise him for picking AWJ again and question Warburton or dropping a top performer like Teo but not try to make out something thats not there.
anagallis_arvensis - MemberA
A - you do come over as very antagonistic at times
I am!!
Well please try to be civilised you leek munching sheep molester. 😉
