Probably just need a thread called "UK Politics" where whatever discussion can take place about the things that day/week in politics".
I wouldn't be surprised if the Starmer thread get's reopened anyway, a sort of U Turn if you like.
Certain people need an intervention
Most already have had one. There's overlap between those threads, posters and threads about MH.
Is it a form of affluent middle-class guilt where getting into spats is a form of self-flagellation at not having had enough suffering in their life.
Or are they just dicks?
They might need to consider taking up cycling.
Is it a form of affluent middle-class guilt where getting into spats is a form of self-flagellation at not having had enough suffering in their life.
Or are they just dicks?
Something about a razor.
So in the last 24 hours we’ve had the former Home Secretary and the former deputy chair of the Tory Party claim that the country has been taken over by a shadowy Islamist cabal, led by Sadiq Khan and the former PM is off busking it in the states, repeating far right conspiracy theories about the country being run by a left wing ‘Deep State’ which undermines democracy
Anyone heard anything from Rishi? The person who is allegedly running the country?
Or is it not just expected that his MPs have all got their metaphorical tinfoil helmets on and trot out a constant stream of unhinged, paranoid far right, racist and xenophobic bile?
The weakness has always been clear. He has no control over large chunks of his party. His only aim is to hold it together long enough to get to an election. Removing whips etc will trigger the implosion immediately, rather than save the blood-letting until after the polls close.
It's disgusting.
Truss has gone full fascist now.
Talking about how the Judges need to be removed, to allow the Government to remove regulation and human rights.
Wasn't that the 1st move after the Enabling Act?
Steve Bannon described Yaxley Lennon as a hero and she didn't push back.
Yet Sunak says nothing.
My hatred of him still just builds and builds.
I don't use that word very often but there is no other way to describe how I feel about him and his ways.
The Starmer thread got out of hand as the notorious posters had to be more right than others
Usual STW
Were you following the thread? Someone who as far as I am aware had never previously posted on that thread posted something fairly offensive.
I challenged it to a degree, Brownperson called it out in much stronger terms and claimed that he had reported the post. The post was shortly afterwards deleted and the thread was closed.
I didn't recognise the poster, who is a full member, of the offending post at all, so I looked at their profile which said that they had been a member since 2009.
It came as a surprise to me as they obviously have strong views, well on Palestine anyway, and yet I don't recall ever seeing them on a political thread before.
So you’ve come on this thread to talk about ‘that’ now closed thread?
Fantastic!
Any other pointless and irrelevant issues you’d like to discuss?
Flower arranging?
Donkey sanctuaries?
https://twitter.com/lukecooper100/status/1761097211239153835?s=20
She has gone a long way from the Liberal Democrats. It's scary to think that less a couple of years ago she was Prime Minister. I am genuinely shocked how much off the rails she has gone.
She claims that she was "sacked" and that the British people back her stance. Which doesn't quite explain why Labour has a 20% lead.
Edit: The first link I posted didn't work, the one above should.
I genuinely think Truss is so delusional that she’ll trot out any old shite to try and avoid facing up to the uncomfortable reality that she was just the most shit PM in this countries history. And that’s following Boris Johnson. Quite an achievement. Her ego just won’t allow her to accept the obvious truth.
She’s also too thick to realise that the optics ain’t that great of standing on stage next to a loon like Bannon in front of a room of MAGA shitkickers
If Rishi had a modicum of control he’d be slapping these nutters down, but they know they can pull his strings because despite it all the likes of Truss and Braverman are still more popular than him with the backbenchers and party membership
Certain people need an intervention
You mean people who disagree with you? Apart from one idiot the discussion on the Starmer thread was perfectly fine. Deal with the offenders rather than shutting down the whole bloody thread!
There's a lot of talk and faux-outrage on this thread about far right fascists (see above about Truss), but then we're not allowed to talk about actual real far right fascism going on not far from us which is resulting in the deaths of tens of thousands of innocent civilians. If I were a complete stranger coming on here seeing the lack of discussion and the active cancelling of any discussion of the subject I might wonder why that is and conclude that this forum doesn't tolerate any anti-Israel opinion. I might even interpret it as tacit support for what's happening. Censorship is a dangerous game.
Any other pointless and irrelevant issues you’d like to discuss?
Flower arranging?
Donkey sanctuaries?
Wow!
Oh FFS?! Censorship? Fascism? Is it like Nazi Germany around here? Really? Grow up FFS! 🙄
Better still… head off to Twitter/X and shout into the void with the rest of the nutters, rather than depth-charging yet another thread on here
so what are the odds of Anderson having tge whip removed?
or will he just need to go on a training course like he did when was posting antisemitism?
https://www.thejc.com/news/two-conservative-mps-receive-training-on-antisemitism-afhkfm2z
Oh FFS?! Censorship? Fascism? Is it like Nazi Germany around here? Really? Grow up FFS! 🙄
Better still… head off to Twitter/X and shout into the void with the rest of the nutters, rather than depth-charging yet another thread on here
It's the weekend and some people still can't have a day off from working themselves up into a rage. Think of your blood pressure binners!
Admittedly it was very naughty of Daz to throw that hand grenade! 😂
so what are the odds of Anderson having the whip removed?
Absolutely zero. They all know they can spout this garbage with impunity as Rishi is too weak to do anything about it.
A few of them really are pushing the boundaries into proper far-right, conspiracy-theory nut-jobbery now though while still retaining the whip from the party in power. Islamist cabals? The ‘Deep State’? Really?
From the above link:
Mr Anderson was an active member of Ashfield Backs Boris, a Facebook group where Soros conspiracy theories have been promoted and which includes supporters of the far-right activist Tommy Robinson.
He told the JC: “I apologised for being a member of the group that allegedly posted offensive remarks.
Things are so messed up currently in UK far-right politics - the Jewish-haters don't know who to back.
"Tommy Robinson" is actually a very strong supporter of Israel and zionism.
and lee Anderson has gone full Tommy Robinson
I'd say more Melanie Phillips. But Lee could actually come and talk to some of us Muslims and find out that most of us aren't extremists, and just want what the majority of people want really. Because all that shouty fundamentalism is really quite tedious and not particularly fun. Far from the extremists 'having control of London', I think their numbers are actually decreasing, as more of us reasonable Muslims have no time for their nonsense.
I just want to drink my pint in peace.
That video of Liz Truss reminds me of someone I saw in a nightclub around 1994 or thereabouts. They were high on a combination of Ecstasy, Charlie, Ketamine and Valium. Fortunately for them, they eventually came back to normality. I think Truss is way too far gone.
I just want to drink my pint in peace.
Inshallah
Truss surfacing like this might actually help Sunak… not being her is about all he has going for him when he first become PM… a few reminders of that might not be such a bad thing come polling day.
Rishi has now completely lost control of his party. 30p Lee has thrown off any vestiges of Tory camouflage and shown his BNP colours in full whilst Truss, a former PM in the eyes of the US if not ours has just stated on TV that the President of our biggest allay be ‘kicked out’ not to mention her continued rants on various conspiracy theories. That 2 sitting MPs are being allowed to do this shows we are through the looking glass now as far as Rishi’s premiership goes.
The Tory party as it has been over the last 100 years is dead and that’s actually not a good thing in a 2 party system of government.
There should be a mechanism where a GE can be forced when it’s clear the PM cannot form a government.
There should be a mechanism where a GE can be forced when it’s clear the PM cannot form a government.
There should be but I reckon it'll go the other way. Tories declare some kind of manufactured crisis - maybe an imminent invasion of migrants in small boats - and put the whole country under martial law.
And then just remain in power cos obviously you can't have democratic nonsense like an election while there's a CRISIS!
There should be a mechanism where a GE can be forced when it’s clear the PM cannot form a government.
Thats what is what a vote of no confidence is for. Problem is when the mps become loyal again for five minutes to defeat it.
Don’t forget that as well as Mad Lizzie and 30p Lee, Cruella is also out there babbling about Islamist cabals taking over the country and other such tinfoil-helmeted nonsense
She was Home Secretary until a couple of months ago, appointed by Sunak 6 days after she was sacked for breaking the ministerial code. She’s also widely tipped as the next party leader and she’s out there spouting completely unhinged conspiracy-theory claptrap in the national press
Well Starmer will be the problem when he is PM so let's see what amazing stuff he gets done, i.e. nothing but agree that at least we don't have to put up with these tory nutters being in charge for 5 years.
If the tories get back in in 5 years time it will be time for me to retire to Ireland I think.
Yeah but but but but Starmer is worse, he’s the real problem.
Give it a break ffs.
do we think Anderson will be a Reform MP
by next week?
[Mod] Thread reopened. Please abide by Forum Rules otherwise it will be closed for good.
https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/sir-kier-starmer/page/529/
Just in...30p lee suspended.
kimbers - that, I think, shortens the odds on him becoming a Reform MP within days.
If he's been suspended, it should be truss next - and quickly.
There are some decent Tory MPs, no matter what the party as a whole is / has become. I disagree with their politics and policies but there are some who are still (relatively) decent people.
Are none of them going to either stand up and say enough is enough, or do it behind the scenes and demand these lunatics are unwhipped.
[edit - just saw Anderson has been suspended so maybe that is happening behind the scenes
Didn’t Rishi say the other week that 30p Lee was going to be a key part of their campaign team to connect with red wall voters?
I’m sure he will be a key part of the campaign team… for the Reform party
So if Lee is suspended then surely Cruella must be too as she’s been saying exactly the same thing
the Lettuce will be getting nervous.
frankconway
Full Member
Just in…30p lee suspended.
kimbers – that, I think, shortens the odds on him becoming a Reform MP within days.If he’s been suspended, it should be truss next – and quickly.
I would say he probably had that in mind before he even made the comment. They are so bloody predictable in their grifting.
There is a big Labour push - canvassing and leafleting - in anderson's constituency this weekend.
My CLP are actively involved; I couldn't be there due to other commitments.
I expect to find out how it went at the branch meeting on Monday.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68392621
The Conservative Ashfield MP told GB News on Friday "Islamists" had "got control" of the mayor of London.
Obviously unacceptable nonsense but I don't see how it is much different to what David Cameron said when he was PM.
Which was that Sadiq Khan had on nine occasions shared a platform with an Islamic State (ISIS) supporter. This was a complete lie and in fact the individual concerned was a Tory supporter who had done election work for the Tories. He later successfully sued the Defence secretary Michael Fallon for repeating the same allegations.
David Cameron never apologised for making false claims that Sadiq Khan was chummy with jihadists and he certainly didn't have the Tory whip suspended.
30p Lee needs to realise that only former Bullingdon Club members can get away with that sort of nonsense.
I'm not sure he'd have much chance after getting re-elected as a Reform MP, im sure he would happily join the party until he gets booted out at the next GE, but his focus will be on the GBnews £shop fash grift.
Be interesting to see what happens
Sunak under pressure over braverman, truss & jenrick too, tho he wont do too much about them.
and the tory press will have to now attack anyone 30p has lunch with as racist by association, right?
labour moving on to exploit Sunak's next problem
https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1761499202956198332?t=2MOkKP7d9LQYmYNxlXDxTg&s=19
I’m not sure he’d have much chance after getting re-elected as a Reform MP,
Reform UK have already selected their candidate for Ashfield. And he sounds like an all-round great guy!
From his role as a combat medic in Afghanistan to his voluntary work in a health and social care and his psychological counselling in prisons.
He even claims to be a mountain bike instructor FFS
https://www.reformparty.uk/ashfield-constituency
And he was brought up on the Continent.
So 30p Lee had the whip withdrawn because he made specific allegations against Sadiq Khan
Saying that Islamic extremists are running the country is apparently fine, so no action will be taken against Braverman
Standing on a platform next to a far right loon like Bannon, grinning inanely while he’s praising Tommy Robinson as ‘a hero’ is fine too
Thems the conclusions Rishi has drawn
Difficult to see who he’s trying to appeal too other than far right nutjobs
But really he’s too scared of Truss and Braverman as he knows plenty more in the Tory party fully support their toxic racist worldview, but he can’t upset those headbangers, can we?
And hopefully it will put even more people off from voting Tory either because he is weak or because what the likes of Truss and Braverman are coming out with/doing. Unless that 20% that remains strong in the polls are the number that like that sort of stuff which is not great is it.
That reform candidate... I understand where he is coming from, especially with the desire for something other than mediocre representation/leadership, but I think he needs to understand that the old role of the UK in the world has changed and will continue to change in the future.
It's not about making the UK great again, it's about making it fairer within the country and finding a comfortable place with the others around you.
I agree with getting kids into STEM though, not just throwing "coding" at them like it's a panacea.
Oliver Dowden melting into a puddle on Laura K this morning, Despite the softest of questions on Truss, Anderson & Braverman .. he just wilts
the video of Truss & Bannon had him gibbering
I am a little surprised that Yaxley-Lennon is still a talking point and poster boy for the financiers of the far right populist movement. I think it shows that while they have money to invest and platform hate, they don't really have any masterplan, it is still just greedy sociopaths lucking out that a corrupt system allows them to have impact they have.
So 30p Lee had the whip withdrawn because he made specific allegations against Sadiq Khan
The Tories absolutely hate Khan. He's everything they're not - capable, decent, educated, tolerant (in fact welcoming) of diversity. They hate that he defeated Zac Goldsmith and Shuan Baliey for the London Mayor, they hate that he more or less got TfL back on level footing after Boris Johnson had squandered billions in Garden Bridge and Boris Island Airport bollocks.
And especially since Covid they've tried to use TfL (and by extension Khan) as a political football, cutting funding, only agreeing to finance packages at the last second, re-arranging the Mayoral election process to benefit them...
Good that the loathsome Anderson has been called out on this but the comments remain out there, magnified by the far-right. You only have to glance at the Mayor of London twitter to see some of the vile anti-Muslim and racist comments that any tweet gets - OK a lot of it will be bots etc but some of it is certainly genuine.
the Lettuce will be getting nervous
the lettuce would have been a better choice.
lettuce isnt as dangerous
https://twitter.com/lukecooper100/status/1761097211239153835?t=A2WgLZSwi6YKSd0CiyeYog&s=19
Just read a little bit of the homepage of that Reform candidate. Good lord, who actually writes these things?! Absolutely awful grammar etc and then halfway down the statement that 'the unelected government is far to slow to change, leading to knee jerk reactions'.
How the hell can a knee jerk reaction be characterised as a slow response?!
The bloke seems like a genuine vacuum of insight.
Oliver Dowden melting into a puddle on Laura K this morning, Despite the softest of questions on Truss, Anderson & Braverman .. he just wilts
The fact that a complete non-entity like Oliver Dowden has held various cabinet roles tells you everything you need to know about where the Tory party presently is.
The elephant in the room this morning though is the fact that Rishi is still hiding in a fridge and clearly won’t condemn Cruella or Truss for their latest outbursts because he’s too weak and he knows they have more support within the party than he does.
It wouldn’t surprise me if both of those two started coming out with even more extreme nonsense to goad Rishi into withdrawing the whip and making them martyrs in the eyes of the swivel-eyed loons that make up the membership and a big chunk of backbench MPs. Maybe Liz could do a photoshoot with Tommy Robinson?
Yaxley-Lennon is presently all over social media, crowing with his latest endorsement and talking about ‘Islamic mob rule’.
Rishi isn't hiding in a fridge this morning, he's out doing photoshoots with climate change deniers in Wales.
Rishi isn’t hiding in a fridge this morning, he’s out doing photoshoots with climate change deniers in Wales.
Hanging out with the Gilet Jones is definitely going to backfire
the guy leading that movement is a bit of a ****
maybe @Welshfarmer has a better perspective
https://twitter.com/Welsh_Dragon_71/status/1761402467059696124?t=CrMmhwVs6gXR0oiSZk0QlA&s=19
Caught an old HIGNFY (I think) on iplayer last night. Ian Hislop referred to 30p Lee as “Leeanderthal”. Thought that was pretty apt.
Caught an old HIGNFY (I think) on iplayer last night. Ian Hislop referred to 30p Lee as “Leeanderthal”. Thought that was pretty apt.
If you like a bit of Hislop, this is well worth a watch:
Hasn't 30p Lee been suspended for not apologising rather than the comments themselves?
wowzers some very random rumours about Sunak's private life on Twitter 👀👀
anyway the reason that they cant say they fired anderson for islamaphobia, is that the Tories are bitterly divided over the culture war theyve been stroking
the relationship between ukip/bxp/reform and the tory party has never been resolved
https://twitter.com/JAHeale/status/1761839432561304020?t=P84RCzIL0dqCbGjEgz73LA&s=19
sunak's private life - has been mixing with...poor people?
That would be truly shocking.
Hasn’t 30p Lee been suspended for not apologising rather than the comments themselves?
It seems that’s exactly it.
Feel free to gob off with your nasty racism, far right propaganda and bonkers conspiracy theories but play the game and make some token non-apology with the usual “I’m sorry/not sorry if people were offended….blah blah blah” And that’s all absolutely fine
Braverman has said exactly the same thing as 30p Lee, if not worse, in an article in the Torygraph but she’s fine because Rishi is scared of her so she knows he hasn’t got the balls to do owt about it
Lees problem is that Rishi isn’t scared of him as he was only ever just a useful idiot. A shit-thick northerner to act as a fig leaf for the privately educated southern posh boys while they try to appeal to other shit-thick northerners
The polling tells them that the ‘Red Wall’ seats they won last time are already lost so there’s not really much use for a shit-thick northerner any more.
Looking in from afar it's both sad yet not surprising how many of the Conservative MPs appear on GB News.....
@alpin the word isn’t (just) appear, it’s PRESENT. They do both, they interview each other. It’s the ultimate scumbag echo chamber.
Look, Tories have succeeded at something! While every other policy and ambition lies in tatters, they've really knocked it out the park on this one.
https://twitter.com/CentralBylines/status/1761648472191627553?t=7X3taSJmH_8lGUF8U9MEVA&s=19
Tough call for badenoch here, her image is built on not backing down from a fight, but she's ended up with egg on her face recently
She cant abandon the hard right grift, because she knows thats her route to power
https://twitter.com/SayeedaWarsi/status/1762025641124253743?t=OaP83YttEbHembY9FJHDnw&s=19
Genuine question, how many Muslims actually vote Tory?
Poor Rishi, he's off on a little tour of the wastelands of the North with Transport Secretary Mark Harper to explain how the money from HS2 cancellation* is going to be spent on a few new horses and carts but all the questions are about Anderson and Islamophobia.
* Money that wasn't due to be borrowed for another decade so technically doesn't exist and can't be reallocated anyway... 🙄
Just in case anyone forgets what this month's Transport Secretary looks like (or if he forgets what his own job is!), he has a helpful jacket.
https://twitter.com/peterwalker99/status/1762014591049961685?t=mgV_DgGrMWVvlFBaKmKWlg&s=19
That Reform bloke looking to unseat 30p Lee, his actual name is "Frenchy Henry Charles Stephen Grisewood".
Reckon there's more to him than we currently know.
What pisses me off is that interviewers aren't asking Sunak about Braverman's comments. They could so easily say "you removed the whip from 30p Lee for saying this, but Braverman said this...what's the difference?"
the word isn’t (just) appear, it’s PRESENT. They do both, they interview each other. It’s the ultimate scumbag echo chamber.
And paid quite handsomely too - £100,000 a year for 1hr (well 50 minutes) a week in Lee Andersons case. Tory MP's don't just have a platform on GB News, it's a way of shovelling quite a lot of money into their pockets.
Endemol once sent me a reasonably famous persons contract by mistake once, for a slot on a primetime C4 show - they were't being paid £2k an hour for their time. I think its safe to say theres a large portion of that £100k thats a gift rather than a wage, its not like theres been a bidding war for his talents..
Its looking increasingly like being actively and openly Islamophobic is now part of their electoral strategy.
Initially its just assuming that Rishi is too weak to slap down Truss and Braverman, then you listen to what he actually says and its now clear he sees some kind of electoral advantage to all this
From their constant polling at 20% and Reform at 10% it looks like they're banking (probably correctly) that this percentage of the countries electorate are racist and right wing and just generally pretty unpleasant.
The Tory strategy is now to try and appeal exclusively to these people to woo Reform voters back, even if that means completely abandoning the centre ground. You could say they did that years ago, but this is unchartered territory even for them. Less dog-whistle racist, more foghorn
If thats the case then surely the few sane members of the Tory party left can't sit by while the parties rhetoric starts to become indistinguishable from the far right nutjobs of the EDL and Britain First?
Genuine question, how many Muslims actually vote Tory?
Less than 10% from memory, possibly nearer 5%
It's a low enough number for the Tories to not care about the Muslim vote, hence our dear leader staying silent
As usual, Baroness Warsi is one of the few sane Tories left and calling out the lunatics.
Genuine question, how many Muslims actually vote Tory?
i'm guessing significantly less than the number of racist/xenophobes the current rhetoric appeals to.
The Tory strategy is now to try and appeal exclusively to these people to woo Reform voters back, even if that means completely abandoning the centre ground.
Genuine question, how many Muslims actually vote Tory?
Less than 10% from memory, possibly nearer 5%
It's not so much the percentage of the population as the number of seats where it makes any difference. We don't have PR it's where muslim voters are rather than how many there are that matters to them
I don't think 'abandoning the centre ground' is part of the plan so much as trying to find ways to hold both wings together through these weird lily-livered tactics. I first noticed with May that whenever something requires either an apology or condemnation you don't do it until the clamour is so great that you have to. So you make the apology that was demanded by one wing and you signal to the the other wing that you didn't really mean it. There are people who like the idea that 'well you can't say that can you' and that there are layers of sinister woke 'them' in places of power other than 'the government' who don't let you do things or say things.
So - the' belated insincere apology' seems to be that tool - thats the glue thats stopping the tory party from fracturing apparently
Not really surprised at Lee Anderson's comments. It merely highlights the racism in the tory party that some people try to deny exists. also, it highlights a point I made a few months ago, about how the term 'Islamist' is so offensive, as it conflates Islam with extremism, when the reality is that such extremism is followed by an absolutely tiny minority worldwide.
It’s not so much the percentage of the population as the number of seats where it makes any difference. We don’t have PR it’s where muslim voters are rather than how many there are that matters to them
Us Muslims tend not to vote for right-wing politics, as they don't align very nicely with Islam itself, and our wide cultural ideals. Muslims can be very socially conservative of course, but in the UK, Muslim people have traditionally been demonised by the tories, so we're not so keen on voting for them. The tories do however enjoy a proportionally far larger support from Jewish people, particularly those from the more Orthodox communities, as tory values align far more with the very socially conservative and even insular/exclusive ideologies within religious Jewish culture. What is interesting though, is that there is far more in common between Jewish and Islamic fundamentalism than either 'side' would care to admit. Strict religious doctrine, social and cultural repression, and the subjugation of women. As a Muslim, I find few cultural symbols more offensive than the niqab; I do not believe any woman possessed of control over her own free will, would choose to wear such a restrictive, dehumanising and socially restrictive garment. Therefore I think it vital that people of all faiths and cultures should be seeking to find things that unite, not divide us. British politics right now is largely about division and subdivision of people into smaller and more manageable groups. I'm now thinking that the key to destroying the far right isn't in demonising the entire tory party, but in seeking voices from within that are much more moderate; the John Major types, of which there must be some left. Many traditional tory voters aren't racist extremist nutters, and many must be horrified to see what's happened to their party. Don't get me wrong, I've always held a special hatred of the tories, but right now is a time to find allies and to encourage solidarity, not to perpetuate and deepen division. Some might argue that this is Starmer's plan, but that would be too generous to suggest he actually has one. If a broadly liberal 'centrism' is the current most pragmatic answer, then he's already strayed far too right of that point.
Just because this current crop of Tories are particularly horrible, don't fall for the trick that they were decent people back in the day.
John Major was part of Thatchers government, which did some terrible things. Section 28 springs to mind but the list is endless.