https://twitter.com/jamesrbuk/status/1709548470015561781?t=s3MUeFNecmYxHtFBQcxjiw&s=19
If this true the HS2 is getting scuttled
Labour won't be able to...the government is rushing to sell off the compulsory purchased land north of Crewe and possibly Euston too.
Labour should also announce that the will investigate the rushed sale of the land when they come into power and the corruption around it. It smells of another PPE level scandal to me, if anyone was wondering how they would attempt to benefit their donors by cancelling the link, I think we now have the answer.
No one will want to buy it if Labour makes a strong commitment.
A Labour government will be able to pass legislation just like Tory governments can.
Labour won’t be able to…the government is rushing to sell off the compulsory purchased land north of Crewe and possibly Euston too.
I don't have enough swear words in my vocabulary.
No one will want to buy it if Labour makes a strong commitment.
Please can they do this at their conference next week...
No one will want to buy it if Labour makes a strong commitment.
Depends, buy now in a corrupt fire sale, then sell at a profit with another compulsory purchase later on at market rates. I think labour have to do more than make a strong commitment to HS2, they have to make a strong commitment to prosecute corruption.
How ****ed off are the red wallers?
Will this finally rip the ****s in two?
This really is just scorched earth now, isn't it
We know we're *ed so lets smash everything up before we leave
They're utter utter *s!
This really is just scorched earth now, isn’t it
I have just wondered what is next to be cleared out before the election. What else can they burn and sell to prevent Labour from doing anything.
I thought Brexshit was a period of self harm - seems that some want a second go at harming ourselves again.
the government is rushing to sell off the compulsory purchased land north of Crewe and possibly Euston too.
Uh huh. Who is it getting sold to and for what?
10% of donations to the tories since 2010 being from the building industry might be worth a review when it gets sold off. Especially the Euston stuff.
Overall a good conference I think. Just think mad nad was desperately trying to get her book out before it in order to try and damage Sunak. Probably happy now the lawyers had a nervous breakdown and needed some more time so she can aim at Christmas instead.
How the hell do they get away with it...
another compulsory purchase later on at market rates.
Market rate less discount. If they knowingly engage in profiteering despite knowing the most likely policies of the next government then it is their responsibility if want to take the risk.
Profiteering should never be rewarded and legislation to minimise it is entirely reasonable.
^^^
How would Labour announcing that HS2 will go ahead affect the price of the land to be sold off?
How the hell do they get away with it…<br /><br />
because they get to write the law at the time it happens and there is nothing anyone can do to stop any government doing it. Those who write the law make sure their dodgy deals are legal even if they are never moral
Profiteering should never be rewarded and legislation to minimise it is entirely reasonable.
Aside from then you hit the "its now private property and stopping the plundering is practically communism" plus issues with it being retroactive.
Would really need labour to stand up now and announce a firm policy on it. Aside from anything else it would probably put the disaster capitalists off.
Wonder if Houchen and the STDC are looking to branch out into new areas of public land to sell/rent under dubious looking conditions.
With all the talk of HS2, it was easy to miss this utter mentalness from Penny Mordaunt
I think the sword carrying and looking like an extra from Game of Thrones has gone to her head a bit
Bonkers!
https://twitter.com/bmay/status/1709560409156440266?s=46&t=1lK7Dw1b6RqGJyvufO-trQ
Here’s another batshit crazy speech from the conference, Penny kebab sword bearer Mordaunt wants the conservatives to stand up and fight…..
Fair enough, I’m game for a scrap with her, will it be Queensbury rules or can I go in tooled up with a sword?
https://twitter.com/bmay/status/1709560409156440266?s=20
A Labour government will be able to pass legislation just like Tory governments can.
They won't though , the Tories have a majority government. I can't see labour getting that can you ?
At best the next GE will produce another hung parliament
Just meaningless waffle from Mordaunt to the party faithful to energize them. I didn't find it particularly peculiar, it's what they want to hear. I reckon she has all the making of a party Leader.
Nah... she's nowhere near batshit crazy enough to make leader
They won’t though , the Tories have a majority government. I can’t see labour getting that can you ?
I agree that they won't, but not because they won't have a majority.
What they won't have is the will, commitment, and determination, to serve the class which they exist to serve in the same way that the Tories do.
I suspect that they will have a comfortable working majority. Although obviously nothing is certain.
JP neatly summarises it
I thought Penny Mordaunt was supposed to be one of the adults in the room?
STAND UP
AND
FIGHT
"I thought Penny Mordaunt was supposed to be one of the adults in the room"
I think she is one of these people who looks a lot more competent than they are and hides her crazy. Bit like Sunak really. Before he became leader and opened his mouth you thought he might be normal and maybe even up to the job of running the country - remember that, when all you had to criticise a politician with was the politics rather than their ability to be a human being and remotely able.
The purchase of the properties under the CPO regulations are part of the HS2 DCO. You can't (he says) just buy and sell them unless it's to fulfil the objectives of the legislation you've created.
Good move with HS2.
The ball is in Labour's court now with HS2 ... LOL!
Hmmm ... Starmer will now need to justify the spiraling cost if he is going to continue with HS2.
Starmer will now need to justify the spiraling cost if he is going to continue with HS2.
Well, yeah. This is known as being accountable if you're in government. The Tories should try it sometime with one of their many Prime Ministers.
Well, yeah. This is known as being accountable if you’re in government. The Tories should try it sometime with one of their many Prime Ministers.
Well, believe in politicians at your own peril.
They are two sides of the same coin.
Labour won’t be able to…the government is rushing to sell off the compulsory purchased land north of Crewe and possibly Euston too
If this is true already then it just proves that Sunak had already made the decision, all the talk of the last week from him was complete and utter male cow poo and he should be done for outright lying and misleading the media and the electorate.
If course nothing will happen, I doubt any interview he gives will be allowed to go anywhere near it either.
The whole lot of them are corrupt ****s who deserve to rot in jail.
Well, believe in politicians at your own peril.
They are two sides of the same coin.
That's tory-spread bollocks and you should be ashamed for repeating it. Normally I ignore the majority of your posts chewkw but not today, this matters far too much with very high stakes.
They are two sides of the same coin.
Gnomic.
They are two sides of the same coin.
No. No-one can be as bad as this lot. What are we on now, 4 Prime Minister's since the Brexit referendum in 2016?
Each has somehow managed to be worse than the previous one, even though the previous one was plumbing depths of stupidity, incompetence and corruption never before seen in British politics.
The scuminess and fraudulence of this lot is off the charts. ****ing hell, Saddam Hussein and Colonel Gaddafi (if they were still alive) would be using this lot as an example and a case study.
We're on an openly fascist dictatorship now. An unelected leader (one of many recently) making decisions by himself, the absolute annihilation of basic human rights and a desire to simply scorch earth for the rest of their term.
This is just open corruption now. Christ, do you remember the days when MPs had the decency to resign if caught having an affair? Now they have an affair (during ****ing lockdown!) then go on TV to "redeem" themselves.
****ing scum of the earth.
The problem now is that all the engineers and construction people will be tarred with the same brush
It's the consultants who are raking it in not the people on site doing the actual work
The spiralling cost made spiralling due to… oh yes, **** Tory scum.
Ah but that was the tory not the tory party and hence has nothing to do with the current tory government.
I really dont get why people try and claim that just because the party has been in power for 13 years they are responsible for anything that happened more than 13 minutes ago.
I was going to caveat it with unless whatever happened was positive but given their record I dont think that needs considering.
We’re on an openly fascist dictatorship now.
Calm down, our kid.
So the £36bn isn't new at all, it's just the already allocated funding
40 new train stations to go with the 40 new hospitals?
I wonder what Binner's would make of all of this...
Well I wonder if this will go anywhere?
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/rishi-sunak-police-nicola-sturgeon-joke-b2424114.html
They are two sides of the same coin.
Sorry but just no. No.
Labour aren't the second coming or anything but to say they are just the current Tory party Mk2 is factually incorrect to anyone that has even vaguely watched the news over the last decade or so... not to mention the last 7 years particularly.
This isn't normal behaviour when did the Tory party. The Tory party has been eaten alive by a cancer it brought upon itself. A cancer it's doing its best to impose upon the rest of the country too.
That should never be allowed to be normalised.
They are two sides of the same coin.
There’s little point engaging with our resident STW. faux revolutionaries
They believe that 13 years of New Labour would have been exactly the same as 13 years of the Tories
The most polite reply to them, without getting into the detail of the utter and complete bollocks they’re clearly spouting is ‘yes dear comrade’
Oh… actually it was chewkw who made the comment. Best to just ignore it completely. Politics as assessed by a nursery teacher on crack
It’s the consultants who are raking it in not the people on site doing the actual work
That's a meaningless statement and isn't even a valid comparison.
Which consultants?
Are you referring to professional services companies? If so, you should be comparing their margins with contractors.
The thing that struck me on seeing Penny Mordaunt's call to fisticuffs was that the Tories are going full 'MAGA'.
However unlike the GOP there's several faces trying to play the Donald's role, the previous two PMs have cast a long shadow, and apparently several headbangers would welcome Dim Lizzie back, there's usefully evil idiots like Cruella and now the likes of Mordaunt trying to wind up the crazy wing with empty, tub-thumping rhetoric.
Lil' Rishi is a lame duck now, his speech was utterly uninspired and isn't really pushing the plebs or the party faithful's buttons.
Of course the game isn't about pitching to be the mug in charge for the GE, it's all about positioning themselves to be in the running for leader of the opposition (or maybe a shadow cabinet job).
They believe that 13 years of New Labour would have been exactly the same as 13 years of the Tories
It might not be exactly the same but the economic trajectory especially with a hands off BoE (yeah thanks Gordon) for both parties means that the economy would follow the same path, maybe with different lumps and bumps.
(And perhaps less total idiots in charge for sure.)
The only time Labour come to power these days seemingly is if they don't offer too much change to the status quo. So the Tories push to the right and Labour have to follow in that direction because they're terrified of losing the nebulous centre ground rather than making a strong argument for change - by Christ that should be easy.
Why do you think in the USA you have the democrats reining spending in and the republican's simply doing what the hell they want with the big bucks? It's the democrats that put the brakes on things - exactly where we are with Rachel Reeves.
Too keep dismissing New Labour as part of the neoliberal equation is total ignorance of where we are.
It's possible to totally despise every bone in a Tory skeleton and at the same time recognise Labour's inability to articulate a solution to Tory/Neoliberal problems.
The Tories know this as they set the parameters of the debate.
Economically they may not be that different now but even Starmer's more middling Labour Party is not even close to the tory party. The intentions, the approach, the rhetoric, fairer policies, less culture wars and ultimately how it feels to live in the UK would not be the same if Labour had continued for the last 13 years.
For all of evil Blair's faults it was to me a very much nicer time to be living in the UK which is because of all sorts of things along with those mentioned above.
If you thought it was all exactly the same then I think you have a short memory.
That’s a meaningless statement and isn’t even a valid comparison.
Which consultants?
You're right, it's very lazy cliche-mongering.
I’ve posted this so many times… I voted and campaigned against the New Labour government. What has happened since then has been a stiff learning lesson. We absolutely need to get, and keep, the Conservatives out of office. It’s one thing to disagree with the scale and ambition of the current Labour front bench and their policies. Quite another to think that it makes no difference whether our PM is backed by Labour or Conservative MPs. I have no idea how you could have lived in the UK over the last few decades and come to that conclusion. Do whatever you can to help your local constituency return an MP of any colour other than blue. Another 5 years of whoever comes after Cameron, May, Johnson, Truss and Sunak as Tory PM isn’t going to treat any of us well in the UK (those living off assets in gated communities perhaps excepted).
Quite another to think that it makes no difference whether our PM is backed by Labour or Conservative MPs. I have no idea how you could have lived in the UK over the last few decades and come to that conclusion
In Scotland we have alternatives who have not lurched sharply to the right and whos aspirations are a bit more than "tory lite" It gives you a differnt view. I have not left the labour party. they have left me. they have nothing to offer Scotland. Two cheeks of the same arse.
Tell me this:
After all of the frothing in the mainstream media, outrage on social media, talk on places like here (even Pistonheads were negative about the speech) and the general consensus it was a bad day for the Tories in general how has the morning headlines, online and in print, painted a generally positive bent on everything with the story seemingly about how Labour is 'bad' and 'woke'?
What will Labour have to do at their conference to combat that?
All very good TJ, but the whole of the UK chooses the MPs who support the UK PM, so how people across England vote (or don’t vote) directly affects you as well I’m afraid. If enough decide that it matters not if their MP is Tory or Labour (in Tory/Labour marginals all over England outside the cities) that we end up with another Tory PM, it will effect the lives of everyone in Scotland as well.
If you thought it was all exactly the same then I think you have a short memory.
Or you were not comfortably off, with a bike or two to indulge your past time. (One of the reasons the referendum went the way it did).
For Scotland tory or labour will make no significant difference.
In the Rutherglen bye election the labour candidate has had to repudiate several key london labour policies
Or you were not comfortably off
People who were not comfortably off were still better under a Labour government than the last 13 years, after all the tory partys goals are the opposite of helping the less comfortably off are they not?
They may not have realised that when getting sucked in by Tory and Brexit nonsense but I can't do much about that.
Anyone listening to Radio4?
Sunak saying FE has been ignored when it comes to funding and staffing. If only the Conservatives had ignored it, rather than cut per pupil funding resulting in sixth from departments across the country closing, and A level teachers leaving the state sector for non-teaching and private school jobs in droves. The current staffing crisis in FE has been caused by him and his Conservative colleagues.
Yesterday I learnt just how much people despise this vile Tory government, which it was claimed to be "an openly fascist dictatorship".
Today I learn that if Labour aren't as bad as that, eg not openly fascist, then that's good enough and everyone should be grateful.
Basically the bar has been set so low that all Labour has to do is step over it.
Edit: Can we at least agree that if all a Labour government has to do is be a bit better than the Tories that the Tories aren't that bad?
This will ruffle some feathers...
Cameron & May attacking him for it will likely help his cause with a certain Tory demographic... but that same brexity bunch idolise Johnson
https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson/status/1709672651789066591?s=19
Basically the bar has been set so low that all Labour has to do is step over it.
Whilst this is true, we don't have anyone else to raise the bar. If we did and the state of UK politics was such that the general public could actually believe and trust that the bar would actually be raised for the good of all, we'd vote them in.
The problem we have right now is that we can sit & watch the blatant activity our money being siphoned away to Friends of the Tories and our Country reduced to rack & ruin, or choose a moderately better alternative as an effort to turn that corner with the limited amount of trust we have.
At least the latter perhaps looks "better" to the majority if not "perfect", but thats the choice we have.
Its also worth remembering that whomever gets into power, the current Tory party have left them a lengthy and difficult policy of rebuilding of many things - infrastructure, health, finances, trust etc - which will take many years to be realised as an improvement by the Public. There is no instant Better UK/Britian the day after Election Day.
I guess, when your party has taken the national debt from 0.5 trillion to 2.5 trillion the debt payments, that it has to look for cost savings.... The debt repayments of which are estimated to be between 117 billion to 123 billion. Your austerity and the "big society" delivered fug all, but pain and misery to the population! Meanwhile whilst peddling it's all the immigrants fault, still!
Our standard of living, for the majority is worst the the majority of europe and we cannot even escape this clusterfug of a mess.
Tory's as predicted will implode, but sadly take us all with them. Here comes the IMF 😉
JeZ
Its also worth remembering that whomever gets into power, the current Tory party have left them a lengthy and difficult policy of rebuilding of many things – infrastructure, health, finances, trust etc
It is also worth remembering that when Labour created the NHS they had inherited a country ruined and on its knees following years of fighting an all consuming global conflict.
The NHS and all the great reforms which have benefitted ordinary working people were never implemented because it was easy. It wasn't because there was a great abundance of resources, on the contrary. But there was a great abundance of determination.
The level of determination to dramatically change course appears to be currently set a zero.
We should apparently be rejoicing because the next Labour government will, hopefully if it's not too difficult for them, tweek a few things here and there.
"Another 5 years of whoever comes after Cameron, May, Johnson, Truss and Sunak as Tory PM isn’t going to treat any of us well in the UK (those living off assets in gated communities perhaps excepted)."
I've said it before, and I'll say it again - vote Tory to lose universal access to free-at-source healthcare, and then it'll start to get proper hard for ordinary folk. If you think it'll be different, go spend some time in the States.
I thought Penny Mordaunt was supposed to be one of the adults in the room?
The 'don't worry, the grown-ups will sort out this mess' argument has been well-rehearsed on here from 2016 onwards. I think we've had plenty of examples now to show us that there are no grown-ups within a country mile of the levers of power. Our political system just allows shallow, narcissistic, short-termers to rise to the top almost effortlessly, and they no longer have to surround themselves with anyone with anyone likely to argue with them.
Mordaunt is no different.
It might not be exactly the same but the economic trajectory especially with a hands off BoE (yeah thanks Gordon) for both parties means that the economy would follow the same path, maybe with different lumps and bumps.
That's a very grand statement and misses one fundamental difference in ideologies - the debt will have been run up by both parties, but Labour would have invested it rather than lining the pockets of their mates. A badly run contract that results in a hospital or new schools is still better off for everyone than containers full of PPE sitting uselessly by, or economic investment zones where the only beneficiaries are the people who had the land signed over to them (e.g., Teeside).
That's as bad as Chekw's 'they're all the same' nonsense.
The UK's capital investment vs GDP is laughable and pathetic. What we are investing is badly targeted and mismanaged
spawnofyorkshire
Its more that labour have made clear they will stick with the same sort of spending levels as the Tories. In England they can spend this in different ways which will make a bit of difference but in Scotland it would mean the budget remained the same. No change.
Whether you agree with Dazhs magical money tree or not 🙂 at this point in the economy I would guess most economists would there is plenty of room for government spending on investment and infrastructure without adverse effects. For labour to say they will stick to the same trajectory means no great change in the economic fortunes of the UK
A badly run contract that results in a hospital or new schools is still better off for everyone than containers full of PPE sitting uselessly
Great. Celebrate the fact that Labour are bad, but just not as bad as the Tories.
What more could anyone ask for?
I feel spoilt.
Armrest has been busily expelling any socialists whose aim was to raise the bar. Progress will only come from industrial action and will be opposed Westmister whoever's residing at No 10.
I was picking up on the assumption that economically we would be in the same boat if we'd had either party for the last 13 years, which I disagreed with.
I do also think it's a simplification to say Labour will continue down the same path as the current lot. They're taking the approach to cost their manifesto rather than promise the unicorns and sunshine like the usual approach. Do I wish they'd be a bit bolder? Yes. Would that get them elected? No.
There's this fallacy that the conservatives are the party of growth and the economy, unfortunately that means placating the swing voters.
Read into the labour approach and it's scalable, get the income and invest it. They're going to inherit a frankly ludicrous borrowing position with high inflation. Even if you buy into MMT, that creates a situation where generation of additional capital for investment would devalue the currency and potentially drive inflation up again.
labour have made clear they will stick with the same sort of spending levels as the Tories.
As much as that? In an article for the Financial Times John Hutton and Alan Millburn boasted that New Labour had spent less than the Tories:
"Public spending accounted for about 40 per cent of gross domestic product during Margaret Thatcher’s years as prime minister. Under John Major it was 38 per cent; since 2010 it has been almost 41 per cent. Under Tony Blair and Gordon Brown, the figure was 37 per cent."
https://www.ft.com/content/3ea5fbaa-a625-11e4-9bd3-00144feab7de
They’re taking the approach to cost their manifesto rather than promise the unicorns and sunshine like the usual approach. Do I wish they’d be a bit bolder? Yes. Would that get them elected? No.
Well it's not likely to get them elected if it is repeatedly claimed that it is unachievable and talk of unicorns is thrown into the argument.
No great surprise there.
close down another thread.
The thread doesn't appear closed. You are free to carry on complaining how vile Rishi Sunak and all Tories are.
What's the problem, someone posted an opinion that you don't agree with?
I've written to my MP (Labour), we shall see if I get a response, but at least I can try and add my voice to show that people do want a greener environment, better rail links and to row back from the car is king culture.
The current staffing crisis in FE has been caused by him and his Conservative colleagues.
Cut and paste this response into the Police, the NHS, Dentistry, the Courts, the prisons, and so on and on. That Sunak is posing as the "Change candidate" is clearly a deliberate ploy to separate himself from previous Tory administrations destruction of the funding of these things. I don't think folks are going to be fooled TBH.
I don’t think folks are going to be fooled TBH.
Thats the issue here. He can promise gold-plated unicorns, unlimited free Greggs and a kitten to every home in the country, but we've been listening to the same bollocks for years and they never ever deliver. Everything you've mentioned - the Police, the NHS, Dentistry, the Courts, the prisons, and so on and on - just keeps getting worse, depite us having the highest tax rates since the 1950's, so that its difficult to get away from the impression that nothing works any more
With all those Transport schemes that Sunak reeled off yesterday... does anyone believe for a second that any of that will be built? What about these 40 hospitals? You'd have to be pretty bloody gullible to believe any of it after a decade of broken promises
That Sunak is posing as the “Change candidate” is clearly a deliberate ploy to separate himself from previous Tory administrations destruction of the funding of these things.
He certainly seemed pissed off at the people who've been running the country recently...
That Sunak is posing as the “Change candidate” is clearly a deliberate ploy to separate himself from previous Tory administrations destruction of the funding of these things.
He has obviously seen the polls which show an overwhelming desire by the electorate for "change".
Not only did 75% of people tell More in Common that they thought it was time for a change of government, that figure also included 47% of those who voted Conservative in 2019 and 79% of voters in the “Red Wall” that helped deliver Boris Johnson’s victory four years ago.
The crumb of hope for Sunak is that the polls suggest that voters aren't entirely convinced that change will come Labour, so he is attempting to offer himself as the man to deliver change.
He said: “We know that when there’s a ‘time for change’ mood in the electorate, it’s very hard to push against that.”
However, he added, voters were “not necessarily convinced that Labour would do a better job of running the country”, with 32% saying the opposition would do better and 27% saying Labour would do worse.
Only 32% are convinced that Labour would do a better job? The overwhelming majority believe that it is a case of 'two cheeks of the same arse'?
And here lies the problem:
Mr Tryl pointed to recent focus groups in which voters had said they were “sick to death” of Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer criticising the Government and not setting out what he would do instead.
Rishi Sunak is obviously exploiting this and saying "never mind Starmer, I am the man to deliver change....here are all my great ideas ".
I can't see it saving him from losing the next general election but Labour's ineptitude is the only lifeline he has which he can cling to.
You’d have to be pretty bloody gullible to believe any of it after a decade of broken promises
And here is the nub. I am not convinced that the great British voters won't be lulled in by tory lies promises again because you know, Corbyn and all that.
Habitual arsonist turns up to offer renovation services for burnt-out houses.
I'm sure there are plenty of people gullible enough to believe it because they were already reluctant Labour voters, and it won't take much window-dressing to tip them back over to either not voting or voting Tory.
I just tried to book a follow up appointment at my docs for ongoing depression/anxiety issues. I was told that there wasn't one available, not even a telephone consultation. I'm used to having to wait 4-5 weeks for one of these but nothing.When I reminded the receptionist of the reason for my call and what would be the situation if I was calling because I was in crisis, I was advised to make an E-Consult and try ringing back tomorrow.
Absolutely broken system.
Do I have any hope that Labour would improve the situation ? None whatsoever. In fact if Starmer set out a plan to resolve these issues, I'd fully expect him to reverse ferret on it eventually anyway