She won’t be an MP come the election, and her seat now has a very high chance of going to Labour. Her letter is full of praise for Labour accepting Brexit (you know, that thing you wanted despite not being right wing). Getting people who, bizarrely, wanted Brexit to now vote Labour has clearly been key to Labour’s election plan. Painful though that is if you want evidence based politics and as speedy a rebuilding of connections with the rest of Europe as possible.
I think Reform have an MP Nick. Although forgetting about him is probably wise.
Getting people who, bizarrely, wanted Brexit to now vote Labour has clearly been key to Labour’s election plan.
Really ? You think Brexit will be a key issue next general election which is why Starmer has welcomed her with open arms?
And in answer to your question Nick I would go to a different restaurant. I don't eat chicken nor shit rolled in broken glass.
The idea that Starmer had no choice but to welcome a rightwing/ERG Tory into the Labour Party, and that we have no choice but to accept it, is absurd.
I have repeatedly pointed out in the past on here that unlike most other European countries the far-right has not had any significant electoral success in the UK, the invariable response has been "but that is because the Tory Party today is the far-right".
So my question now is does Natalie Elphicke represent the far-right in UK politics?
I think that I'm with Ernie on this one. Party that welcomes Elphicke is not a political party I'm at home in. This of course means voting Green in a winnable seat for Labour. Awesome 😔
And yet today I discover that if a member of the ERG wants to join the Labour Party hey that’s cool, why not?
Blue team bad red team good.
The idea that Starmer had no choice but to welcome a rightwing/ERG Tory into the Labour Party, and that we have no choice but to accept it, is absurd.
Hey we don't want to change any narrative - we just want to be the replacement Conservatives.
And in answer to your question Nick I would go to a different restaurant. I don’t eat chicken nor shit rolled in broken glass.
You assume Nicks metaphor allowed the option of another restaurant. I admire the commitment you snd others have to your values, but most of us would prefer an attainable if unpleasant change rather tnan a perfection that will never happen immediately.
If youd sooner be hungry than hold your nose and eat chicken, that's your choice
And in answer to your question Nick I would go to a different restaurant.
Ah well, avoiding the question is as clear as the obvious answer. It's not that he didn't have a choice, he chose the path that gave him the best weapon with which to beat Sunak over the head. Which is; your MPs are abandoning your ship. That's the sum total of the start middle and finish of today's proceedings.
I think that I’m with Ernie on this one. Party that welcomes Elphicke is not a political party I’m at home in. This of course means voting Green in a winnable seat for Labour. Awesome 😔
That's because we have only one way of doing lazy arse politics these days. Shift rightwards - adopt flawed economic policies.
The arguments for moving left are more robust and pragmatic - but ya know, path of least resistance etc.
You think Brexit will be a key issue next general election which is why Starmer has welcomed her with open arms?
No. It won’t, because Labour have neutralized the issue. They’ve bent over backwards to do so. Even an ex-ERG member can now say to voters that Labour won’t undo Brexit and they can vote for Labour based on other issues the government are failing on… eg. housing and people smuggling.
She’s going to do bugger all in the Labour Party now, it’s just a big event to damage her old party on the way out. As soon as we get an election she’ll be replaced. Although you might not like who by… if you like throwing the flag shagger epitaph at Labour politicians when they try and reassure the voters who considered them anti-British… no Labour candidate has taken a firmer “reclaim the flag” approach to their campaign build up for the next election.
More than the ERG Brexit stuff, I’m more concerned about the defence of her rapey ex-husband. I’d be interested to know what Jess Phillips - a lifelong campaigner against violence against women - has to say about that?
I can’t help thinking that issuing a press release saying ‘she wanted to defect to us but we told her to **** off’ would have been a far better option.
That would play into the hands of the ‘Party’ as they could threaten MP’s with removal of the Whip (and then they’d lose their job).
But that's pretty much what happens now in reality. MPs don't tend to defect right after they've been elected, and then they do, they're rarely re-elected for their new team. All you're really talking about is whether they leave office immediately or only at the next election
Except that’s not, in theory, how the system is supposed to work. Iirc, you technically vote for an individual to be your MP, and whoever gets the most MPs to support them becomes PM? Though I’m happy to be proven wrong.
Yes, but that individual is aligned with a political party on the ballot paper.
Which is; your MPs are abandoning your ship. That’s the sum total of the start middle and finish of today’s proceedings.
It really isnt.
Where would Starmer draw the line for a minor victory? If Farage offered to join up would that be acceptable in your eyes? At some point you need to consider whether you had to destroy the village to save it.
I’d be interested to know what Jess Phillips – a lifelong campaigner against violence against women – has to say about that?
Already announced she's stepping down at the next election hasn't she?
Mentioned earlier that no one remembers the name of the Dr bloke who crossed the floor last week. Listening to LBC tonight and a political commentator couldn't either!
We're in election mode so the rules have changed, at least in the mind of those advising the leaders. They've priced in the damage and think it's still worth it.
What would happen if they tried to schedule an election in the middle of the summer holidays, on the assumption that most of their core older voters would be less likely to be away on hols?
binners
Full Member
More than the ERG Brexit stuff, I’m more concerned about the defence of her rapey ex-husband. I’d be interested to know what Jess Phillips – a lifelong campaigner against violence against women – has to say about that?I can’t help thinking that issuing a press release saying ‘she wanted to defect to us but we told her to **** off’ would have been a far better option.
8th May 2024
Ernie and Binners agree on something.
World peace shall me called by tomorrow lunch time and Binners shall announce he is a communist by Friday.
😁
Even an ex-ERG member can now ....
She was not "an ex-ERG member" when Starmer agreed to welcome her into the Labour Party - she was a fully paid up member. Presumably her membership ceased the moment that she crossed the floor.
Of course this may inspire others to leave. Would she have jumped if the bloke last week hadn’t? This could be the start of a collapse.
What are you talking about, "the start of a collapse"?
Everyone has known for a very long time that the Tories stand no chance of winning the next general election, which is literally weeks away. There is even talk of the possibility of them getting less than a hundred MPs.
To describe Natalie Elphicke's defection as possibly the "start" of a Tory collapse is bonkers.
It's unlikely to win Labour much in the way of extra votes and quite likely drive some potential Labour voters into the arms the of the Greens/LibDems/SNP/independents.
BTW I lovin how some people are justifying Labour welcoming a hard-right Tory bigot on the grounds that there will be a general election very soon. Using this weird logic presumably she would not have been so welcomed into the Labour Party 4 years ago, but because she has been in loyal Tory until yesterday attacking Labour for alledgedly being soft on immigration and terrorism she is allowed to end her parliamentary career in the Labour Party! Have we reached a point where reality has become indistinguishable from satire?
Have we reached a point where reality has become indistinguishable from satire?
That horse bolted about six months before Johnson became PM
Ernie and Binners agree on something.
Well in this case at least binners is being consistent - he hates ERG Tories and always has done, why on earth would he welcome them into his party?
I totally agree with his comment concerning issuing a press release saying ‘she wanted to defect to us but we told her to **** off’ would have been a far better option.
If Farage offered to join up would that be acceptable in your eyes?
He'd have to be elected as something first...
He’d have to be elected as something first…
Not to join labour and campaign for them.
So where do you think the line should be drawn if at all?
He’d have to be elected as something first…
Why? Labour could find Nigel Farage a safe seat for him to stand in.
Just think how many votes Nigel Farage would bring if he was to join the Labour Party.
This is all performative and a marriage of convenience
She gets to have a pop at rishi and sit behind Starmer once at pmqs before being banished to the back benches.
Starmer gets to rub it in sunaks face and then ignore her the rest of this parliament.
She's not been promised anything and is standing down.
Would she have been accepted in year one of a parliamentary term? I seriously doubt that, but we're in the last year now and it's silly season in a zombie parliament.
This doesn't mean I like her at all, and frankly I hope this is the last we hear of her
Is Elphicke going to stand in the election for Labour? I'm sure I heard on the radio Labour have already got a candidate for the seat.
No. None of the defecting MPs are standing at the next election. The existing Labour candidates are standing.
Would she have been accepted in year one of a parliamentary term?
Well she only started her Parliamentary career in 2019 so nobody quite knew just how rightwing she was. She needed 5 years to prove that she was a proper a swiveled-eyed ERG fruitcake before being allowed to join the Labour Party!
I love the idea that she would not have been allowed to join the Labour Party in 2020 🤣
Well I reckon my mind’s made up now. In the same way as I could never vote for a party which included the likes of Thatcher, Duncan-Smith, Rees Mogg, Johnson, Farage et al, there’s no way I’m voting for a party with Elphicke in it. They can go go f*** themselves. Shame cos I actually really like my local labour candidate.
She’s not been promised anything and is standing down.
I might be imagining this but I think something was said about her being a non paid advisor on housing or such?
It's one of only 4 areas of overlap with Labour I believe.
1 Housing, as in building more and doing away with no fault evictions.
2 Against Rwanda plan, preferring more cooperation with France etc to "tackle it".
3 She really doesn't like Sunak.
4 She f*****g really doesn't like Sunak.
(3 and 4 probably don't need fact checking but 1 and 2 are as reported on ITV or CH4 news, I can't remember which.)
Shame cos I actually really like my local labour candidate.
Otherwise known as the person you can actually vote for to represent you in parliament.
Well I reckon my mind s made up now. In the same way as I could never vote for a party which included the likes of Thatcher, Duncan-Smith, Rees Mogg, Johnson, Farage et al, there’s no way I’m voting for a party with Elphicke in it. They can go go f*** themselves. Shame cos I actually really like my local labour candidate.
I thought you'd made your mind up all the other times you said you weren't going to vote for this iteration of labour?
Otherwise known as the person you can actually vote for to represent you in parliament.
Well if Josh Fenton-Glynn wants to stand as an independent I’ll vote for him, but I’m not voting for a party which accepts the likes Elphicke any more than I’d vote for a party with Enoch Powell in it.
I went to school with Josh and his brother. He's a great guy and really gives a shit about making things better and more equitable.
He'll do more good as a voice within Labour than not getting voted in as an independent candidate.
I might be imagining this but I think something was said about her being a non paid advisor on housing or such?
From her resignation letter:
I’m honoured to have been asked to work with Keir and the team to help deliver the homes we need.
I have no idea what that involves but since Labour are not currently in government I can only assume that it something which she hopes to be doing post-general election.
There is a reason why she has resigned from the Tory Party and joined the Labour Party a few weeks before a general election.
Whatever the reason you would have to be rather naive to believe that she was doing it for the country, or motivated by an intense dislike for Rishi Sunak.
If she really doesn't like Rishi Sunak it is mostly likely to be because he isn't rightwing enough for her - ERG members are not known for being to the left of Rishi Sunak.
He’s a great guy and really gives a shit about making things better and more equitable.
I have no doubt about that. But I’m not voting for a party which courts open racists and apologists for sexual assault for minor political advantage. It’s as simple as that.
Housing is probably the one area she isn't a swivel eyed ERG crackpot.
She has a history in housing policy predating her time in parliament.
Hate to say it, but she may be of use advising on housing policy. Labour will need the housebuilders on side and she's got good links in to them.
She wants landlord reforms, improved social housing and more affordable homes
Housing is probably the one area she isn’t a swivel eyed ERG crackpot.
Maybe so but if she was still in the tory party right now you’d be calling her a swivel-eyed loon. Only one thing has changed, and that says much more about the Labour Party and what they represent more than it says about her.
Labour will need the housebuilders on side and she’s got good links in to them.
There is nothing new about Tories being involved in construction, including housing. The industry has traditionally had some very big Tory Party backers - and for very sound financial reasons.
Before her little short stint in Parliament Natalie Elphicke was helping a Tory government to provide more desperately needed housing:
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/dedicated-housing-finance-support-for-local-authorities
The government will be working with Keith House and Natalie Elphicke to implement a Housing Finance Institute.
That’s why today I can announce that we’re working with Natalie Elphicke and Keith House to provide dedicated support to councils to unlock more housing.
She obviously hopes to carry on doing that after Keir Starmer becomes prime minister. I suspect that it will probably pay better than being a Tory backbench MP, and now the next prime minister whose ear she has, and whose party she belongs to, owes her a favour . Selfless commitment to herself rather than selfless commitment to the country is no doubt what is driving her.
Probably similar to Dan Poulter who works for an Israeli medical company which has contracts with the NHS and is now a member of the Labour Party looking for a post-parliamentary career. And I bet he really cares about the NHS.
But I’m not voting for a party which courts open racists and apologists for sexual assault for minor political advantage. It’s as simple as that.
Same for me. Starmer just gets worse by the week, how shit is he going to be by October? Maybe him and Sunak are in a secret how shit can we be but one of us will still be PM anyway competition.
ERG folk in the Tories - swivel eyed loons filling the servers of STW with rage day after day.
ERG folk in Labour - useful for housing.
It would have sent a much stronger signal if Starmer rejected her simple as that.
It's very hard to keep thread discussions to Sunak when Starmer keeps cleaning his dirty washing.
Yes, but that individual is aligned with a political party on the ballot paper.
Bless 🙂
Maybe so but if she was still in the tory party right now you’d be calling her a swivel-eyed loon. Only one thing has changed
Heaven forbid people with more real life political experience than us think even a swivel eyed loon might come in useful at some point.
In a weeks time, the only people still talking about this will be Labour supporters continuing to fight internet battles about the past.
