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<em style="box-sizing: border-box; --tw-border-spacing-x: 0; --tw-border-spacing-y: 0; --tw-translate-x: 0; --tw-translate-y: 0; --tw-rotate: 0; --tw-skew-x: 0; --tw-skew-y: 0; --tw-scale-x: 1; --tw-scale-y: 1; --tw-scroll-snap-strictness: proximity; --tw-ring-offset-width: 0px; --tw-ring-offset-color: #fff; --tw-ring-color: rgb(59 130 246 / 0.5); --tw-ring-offset-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-ring-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow-colored: 0 0 #0000;">“Why is it for example that where a treatment or technology is proven to work, proven to deliver better outcomes for patients and proven to deliver good value for taxpayers’ money in one NHS trust, do those innovators then have to try and tout their wares one by one around every other NHS trust?”
Because the Govt set the NHS up this way.
Remember though, bringing stuff together for perfectly sensible operational & supply chain reasons is a bad thing, for some folk - look at the kicking the Scottish Govt gets from the right-wing for Police Scotland vs the old regions.
AA Gill said it best
Huffington Post this morning had a story about Johnson maybe looking to get back into politics via Henley, only for the current Tory candidate to categorically state she would not stand aside for him.
In the ever-more-fractious Tory party there are still plenty of MPs who are so detatched from reality that they equate the drop in the polls with the exit of the fly-tipped sofa. They're not so good at this whole 'cause and effect' thing and are genuinelly so stupid that they believe that if they just brought the oversexed honey monster back then he would instantly recreate the 2019 majority.
Borises vanity means that he can't help himself and in the fantasy world he lives in, no doubt egged on by the same Tory MP's blowing smoke up his arse, he's eying up his glorious return to vanquish Rishi and deliver another thumping great majority
Poor little Lee.
https://twitter.com/Otto_English/status/1767461408512377033?t=Nwn6QqXdnb-Sjl1xy1Zz8Q&s=19
Huffington Post this morning had a story about Johnson maybe looking to get back into politics via Henley, only for the current Tory candidate to categorically state she would not stand aside for him.
Mrs May's next door and pretty blue constituency (majority 18,846 on a 56,000 turnout) is up for grabs.
Poor little Lee.
He's been demoted from 'useful idiot' back down to simply 'idiot'
The Carlton Club doesn't sound much like the pubs and working mens clubs he's always banging on about talking to people in, does it? Its almost like he's making those stories up? He wouldn't, would he? Not Lee?
Its almost like he’s making those stories up? He wouldn’t, would he? Not Lee?
Remember this one? Out on the campaign trail and he got caught on a live mic phoning his mate before a staged visit. He's standard Tory - lying little shitbag full of disinformation and with racist / sexist views bubbling away just beneath a thin "man of the people" veneer which has now thoroughly worn off.
https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/kemi-badenoch-tory-leaders-poll-2918986
"Ms Mordaunt emerges as the most favoured among all voters to be leader, beating all her rivals in a head-to-head.
Among Labour voters, 63 per cent said they preferred Ms Mordaunt to Mr Sunak, while 65 per cent preferred her to Ms Badenoch."
It won't happen but that there ^ is the Tories best hope to avoid an electoral catastrophe.
Replace Sunak with Mordaunt, as soon as she becomes Prime Minister she promises a bright new dawn but before she can do anything says that she needs a mandate from the people, so calls a general election.
The Tories almost certainly wouldn't win the general election but it is unlikely to be quite as catastrophic for them as all other possible scenarios.
Although obviously the right-wing who are currently destroying the Tory Party won't let that happen.
This made me chuckle:
"Mr Farage, meanwhile, was only the preferred candidate among all voters when pitted against Ms Braverman."
Imagine being so unpopular with voters that you make Nigel Farage seem a better choice. And these people claim to know what most concerns British voters.
Reform are basically the Gammon protest vote.
Nice bit of STW snobbery there! Mate if you hadn't noticed the 'gammons' as you call them are what are driving British politics to the brink of fascism just like in America. That's because the entire political establishment and the mteropolitan middle class blithely dismiss their parochial concerns rather than dealing with simple grassroots issues like being able to get a GP appt or see a dentist. Yes, they don't like immigrants, and they struggle to communicate their concerns in ways that don't sound like a 1970s sitcom, but their concerns on non-immigration issues are still valid, and until our 'elite' politicians start doing something about them, then the racism side of the argument will continue to gain traction and the likes of Farage, Tice and Anderson will become more popular.
Gammons. Jesus wept!
theotherjonv
Mrs May’s next door and pretty blue constituency (majority 18,846 on a 56,000 turnout) is up for grabs.
These days, that's a marginal.
They've already written the narrative for the upcoming electoral defeat, haven't they Ernesto?...
"We weren't right wing enough"
I've just checked the odds and the bookies clearly think Badanoch is nailed on. She's 2/1, The sword carrier is 5/1 and Cruella is 6/1. Personally I think Penny Mordaunt hasn't got a cat in hells chance. Not with a Tory membership of hang'em'and'flog'em elderly bigots, unless she commits to using the big sword for public beheadings
I still think my bet on Cruella is still a potential winner. It was 9.5/1 when I put it on last June
So Sunak announces the need to build new gas power stations with only a few months of his government left.
Despite the net zero pledge the Tories themselves made.
Que "what will Labour do to ensure energy security" in HoC.
Gammons is a short hand for that kind of person - the people who raised me. Not pretty but better than having to write a short essay every time you want to describe such a significant part of the electorate.
Luckily a seat for Boris has just popped up – after all, he’s such a winner in the Red Wall that Ashfield should be no bother.
Please no, that constituency is only a couple of miles from me.
Gammons is a short hand for that kind of person
'That' kind of person? Wow!
Not pretty but better than having to write a short essay every time you want to describe such a significant part of the electorate.
Nice. Lets just give them a perjorative collective name then. You know, a bit like ni*, dar*, pa*** etc.. 🙄
I see the British ISA had been ditched this morning too? Was that it's name, I can't keep up with the announcements, by the time I remember them, theyve gone.
Well, put off till after the election as it's unaffordable which is the same thing. Hunt didn't bother to do his sums or something.
That’s because the entire political establishment and the mteropolitan middle class blithely dismiss their parochial concerns rather than dealing with simple grassroots issues like being able to get a GP appt or see a dentist.
Yes, but they voted for this each and every time they put a cross next to Conservative/UKIP/Reform/Brexit etc etc, and continue to.
Do you really think that Farage/Tice GAS about whether ordinary folk can get to see a GP - they only thing they care about is making sure that someone backing them gets a 'cut' from the GP visit.
Do you really think that Farage/Tice GAS about whether ordinary folk can get to see a GP
Of course they don't. They don't give a flying f*** about normal people, but as long as the mainstream parties don't either they'll continue to use it as a way to spread their poison.
I'm inclined to agree with dazh on this. The people referred to as gammons ae maybe not the most politically and economically astute and have been misled for years, and are so desperate for change they'll believe any old shit the Tory right and Reform throw at them if it might improve their lot.
Labours failure to stand up and be clearer about how they will offer hope and aspiration for these prople gives them another push to the right.
People who are still drawn to party with a "one in one out" immigration policy who want to "scrap net zero"... know what they want... and they know what they want is damaging for others, both in the UK and further afield. Perhaps it's time to stand up to them, rather than for them. That's aimed primarily at the other political parties... but also perhaps we should all start doing it.
Nice. Lets just give them a perjorative collective name then. You know, a bit like ni*, dar*, pa*** etc.. 🙄
You seem perfectly happy to tar everyone who posts here with the same brush. 🤔
To be fair I suppose use of the term gammon buys in to the divisive bollocks that is the populist's stock in trade.
You seem perfectly happy to tar everyone who posts here with the same brush.
Of course I am. STW is probably the least diverse, most conformist, self-reinforcing social network bubble I've ever come across. Or are you going to argue it's not mostly middle class, slightly left of centre, white, male, and professional which doesn't tolerate any dissent or alternative views? We're not even allowed to talk about some subjects for fear that something controversial might be said.
https://twitter.com/NatashaC/status/1767525164923728169?t=IXvrW8UAnblMMtIATydBWw&s=19
this has the feel of Johnson's last days; minister sent out to defend the latest indefensible scandal, only to have the ludicrous position they've just laid out reversed by No 10 before they've left the tv studio
I'm with Daz here - calling people derogatory terms/names never helps forward any argument
Ah... they're 'hypothetical' comments now are they?
Righto....
Nice. Lets just give them a perjorative collective name then.
Are you saying, after looking around at the damage that they have wrought recently, that they are not deserving of the oprobrium we heap on them?
Gammons have a choice of being a gammon. Being of Asian, African or other person of colour is not something one has a choice in.
Michael Gove launches his new definitions of extremism tomorrow
which presumably doesnt include calling for women to be shot or hating all women of colour because you dont like one in particular........
Are you saying, after looking around at the damage that they have wrought recently, that they are not deserving of the oprobrium we heap on them?
Gammons have a choice of being a gammon. Being of Asian, African or other person of colour is not something one has a choice in.
Failure to engage with such people is part of the reason we are in the mess we are now in.
Politicians need to engage & allay their fears - politics is complicated & solutions are not easy. People offering up easy solutions will always appeal. So we need to kill them with kindness & explain why the easy solutions aren't for the people but for the benefit of those who are offering them.
‘That’ kind of person? Wow!
Yes Wow! I am another "kind of person". As I said, I am not going to write an essay to describe these dreadful people.
Not trying to win an argument with them. I learned the futility of that a long time ago. Given their actions, any description would become by default "derogatory".
Nice. Lets just give them a perjorative collective name then. You know, a bit like ni*, dar*, pa etc..
How about Tories - but then there are those things to the right of them like 30p's latest mob. Are you polite to paedophiles, nazis, narcos, people who hang dogdoo bags in hedges? Gammon is actually a bit of a polite euphemism
While we are at it can you choose to be a "ni*, dar*, pa "? Equating disgust at far right political support with racism really is offensive.
Equating disgust at far right political support with racism really is offensive.
The term gammon is specifically reserved for white men, it actually refers to their complexion, obviously.
I don't know what company other people on here keep but the only time I come across angry white middle-aged men ranting on a day-to-day basis is on STW.
And my, are they angry. Proper angry.
Come on... your trolling skills are much more refined than that... too obvious... 1/10
Politicians need to engage & allay their fears – politics is complicated & solutions are not easy. People offering up easy solutions will always appeal. So we need to kill them with kindness & explain why the easy solutions aren’t for the people but for the benefit of those who are offering them.
I don't disagree with any of that but how the heck do we even begin? An element of the population have lapped up angry EU rhetoric for decades. They were finally given exactly what they wanted and they've patently been sold a pup. Average Joe's warned them, politicians of all persuasions too and of course the ones we really should have listened to above all, the now reviled experts.
However well respected, learned and sometimes damn right patient, the warnings were ignored.
How do you engage with those that have zero desire to be engaged with?
I'm not being argumentative here. My sister is a prime example, she's convinced all the countries ills are due to people of a different colour or accent being here. It doesn't matter that the only time she meets them they are serving her in a shop or (currently) helping her husband with an as yet undiagnosed heart issue. "They" are literally trying to prolong her husband's life yet they are still the problem in her eyes. It's impossible to reason with as it's an emotional belief and so it's impossible to compete with.
A lot of people are just fed up of trying to engage with those whose vision of Britain will never be achievable as it's so rooted in a sepia coated illusion of past glories. Even if it actually ever existed, it's never coming back.
Oh yeah, the old, 'Gammon is a racist term!!' argument.
Mostly spluttered by incensed gammons who don't like being called out on their bullshit, and ridiculed by everyone else.
Quite rightly.
I don’t know what company other people on here keep but the only time I come across angry white middle-aged men ranting on a day-to-day basis is on STW.
This is very true. Maybe we should start talking about GTW instead of STW? 😂
these dreadful people.
Yes, absolutely frightful my dear boy! Just who do these people think they are?
Are we back to calling someone with a different to yours a "troll" Kelvin?
In your case I guess that you can't really do much better, it's always your fallback when you can't think of any else to say.
The only politically angry middle-aged men that I am aware of on a day-to-day basis is on this thread.
You must keep a different sort of company if that's not the case with you
I’m not being argumentative here. My sister is a prime example, she’s convinced all the countries ills are due to people of a different colour or accent being here. It doesn’t matter that the only time she meets them they are serving her in a shop or (currently) helping her husband with an as yet undiagnosed heart issue. “They” are literally trying to prolong her husband’s life yet they are still the problem in her eyes. It’s impossible to reason with as it’s an emotional belief and so it’s impossible to compete with.
Please be argumentative - I have the same issue with my parents - they are both lovely people, but when it comes to politics things get feisty pretty quickly. I generally try to reason with them but all we can agree on is that things are getting worse & none of us know what the solution is.
At the next election they will vote either Tory (cos they always have) or Reform as a protest vote. They won't ever vote Labour due to the 15-18% interest rates in the 80s that were apparently caused by Labour in the 70s.
People like them are hardly radical right - & they're exactly the people who Reform are targeting.
I'm going to have some really tough conversations this year.
Oh yeah, the old, ‘Gammon is a racist term!!’ argument.Mostly spluttered by incensed gammons who don’t like being called out on their bullshit, and ridiculed by everyone else.
Quite rightly.
This ^^.
They're the very same people who promote fReeD0M oV Sp3Ech!!! which is the gammon terminology for "I want to say whatever I want, no matter how offensive cos if you take offence at it, you're a snowflake"
Strangely, if you say anything to them that they deem offensive (like, I dunno, daring to disagree with their racist rhetoric), that same freedom of speech needs to be cracked down on immediately.
I’m going to have some really tough conversations this year.
Naw, just tell them you're going to shoot them in the head if they vote Reform or Tory. Perfectly acceptable debating technique.
This is very true. Maybe we should start talking about GTW instead of STW? 😂
Yeah, being as even handed as it's possible to bed, there's is an element of truth to that bit it's not confined to here.
I was up on the North Downs some time ago when I was at least attempting /able to get out on the MTB so I could try and maintain the lie that I was still an actual "rider of bikes"!😁 I was taking a rest after climbing a pathetically small hill, lovely Summer day and 2 blokes around my age were walking towards me. Exchanged pleasantries and it turned out they lived in a village I grew up in. They would have been in the year up from me at school as it turned out. More pleasantries then BAM! One of the guys went into a full on moan about the state of the country and how it was the fault of "all this wokery ruining the country". The other bloke looked a little sheepish and just said nothing. I just don't talk politics or anything remotely political with strangers or even people I know well most of the time so I was genuinely shocked. I think I just mumbled that it was a complex issue and changed the subject. It still perplexes me to this day.
It's a bloody odd world out there sometimes.
Mrs May’s next door and pretty blue constituency (majority 18,846 on a 56,000 turnout) is up for grabs.
If our Theresa thought there was any chance of Boris nabbing her seat, she certainly wouldn't be standing down. In fact, if that started to look possible, she'd probably reverse the decision! She absolutely loathes him!
They’re the very same people who promote fReeD0M oV Sp3Ech!!! which is the gammon terminology for “I want to say whatever I want, no matter how offensive cos if you take offence at it, you’re a snowflake”
Folk are comfortable with calling folk "Toraigh"/"Tory" Or has centuries of use/abuse Purified that term?
At the next election they will vote either Tory (cos they always have) or Reform as a protest vote. They won’t ever vote Labour due to the 15-18% interest rates in the 80s that were apparently caused by Labour in the 70s.
Do you remind them that the Tories were in Govt for near enough half of the 70's (and that the highest interest rates were in the early 90's after a decade of Tory Govts)?
Dont be silly, previous facts have long been revised - the three day week, power cuts etc all took place under Labour. There was no Conservative Government until The Party under the Glorious Banner of St Margaret delivered us from Communism and barbarity in 1979.
It’s impossible to reason with as it’s an emotional belief and so it’s impossible to compete with.
Only two choices really; don't talk to her about Politics, and if she brings it up, #factcheck every false statement or ridicule.
Since she's your Sister, go with the first.
with mine, whenever a complaint is raised about something, I just sigh and say "well that's what you get with a conservative government isn't it?"
I’m going to have some really tough conversations this year.
My parents are no different, but it's not hard to talk to them about it. I tell them the simple truth, that they are wrong to think immigration is the cause of all the problems they observe, and that they are being manipulated into thinking that way by people who don't care about them and who are using the subject to feather their own nests. I then tell them if they're stupid enough to allow themselves to be manipulated by people who have no interest in them that's their lookout, but don't then complain when nothing gets better. At that point they'll usually give in and stop talking about it, then I have to do it all again 6 months later when their brains have been through the wash again.
This thread is basically Hull University student common room, circa 1985
Yeah, I see no10 has thrown another lamb to the slaughter to defend a totally not racist remark (honest gov) then threw him under the bus skim ers had just mentioned.
I know at least one person on here predicted that event earlier in the day! What a shower.
Anyway...
Only two choices really; don’t talk to her about Politics, and if she brings it up, #factcheck every false statement or ridicule.
Since she’s your Sister, go with the first.
I rarely bring politics up with her but when she says something like, "well, he saw an Indian doctor but she was actually pretty good" it's a bit maddening. Particularly as it's usually mixed in with a long diatribe on the woes in the NHS which I totally sympathise with... I just dont happen to think it's issues are due to giving preferential treatment to immigrants. FFS.
Anyway, she is my sis, her husband isn't too well so I stfu.
The reality is that I pretty much contain my political moaning to here. Which is good for me and hopefully not too unbearable for you lot! 😁
Poopscoop , when confronted with these people. Agree ,then moan about the roads, the nhs, where is the £350 million a week going ,how shit this government is, how johnson is a **** for lying to the queen .how we have been lied to.....etc.
"They" have no choice but to agree with you, if they end up voting for The Bodyform party and split the hate vote, so be it.
This thread is basically Hull University student common room, circa 1985
As opposed to Eton ****ers bullingdon club?, if you don’t like then **** off somewhere else
zippykona
Full Member
Poopscoop , when confronted with these people. Agree ,then moan about the roads, the nhs, where is the £350 million a week going ,how shit this government is, how johnson is a **** for lying to the queen .how we have been lied to…..etc.
I honestly can't motivate myself to do it, just to much going on at home here these days. It's why I'm on the forum so much, helps keep me reasonably sane. Kinda.😉
This thread is basically Hull University student common room, circa 1985
It and thevrest if stw is far to the right of any student political discussion i saw. Well to the right of the lefties i know
Can someone pop into the bar and see if anyone's on the pool table?
The Hester scandal was handled very badly by Sunak, he's making the same errors as Johnson did at the end, as much as no tory MP thinks a leadership contest would be good for them, they'll not be enjoying the rolling scandals
if he's not careful , he'll end up with 53 no confidence letters by accident
He met with Graham Brady tonight, if it gets close do we think he'll roll the dice on an election in May?
Can someone pop into the bar and see if anyone’s on the pool table?
TJ has monopolised the pool table again, winner stays on and two shots carry except on black and you have to nominate a pocket. And there’s only one decent cue, don’t use the chalk, TJ dropped it into his pint by mistake.
Foosball table is free though, don’t pick red as the goalie just spins on the bar.
It and thevrest if stw is far to the right of any student political discussion i saw. Well to the right of the lefties i kno
The dreams, naivety and grinding down from real life quash the pure ideological stuff that we discussed as 18 year olds as we come to accept the country we live in and those pesky people that are allowed to vote and ruin everything.
Rishi is always crap at PMQ's but his insistance in defending the indefensible this week - re Frank Hesters comments that Dianne Abbot should be shot - really isn't going well. He's getting pasted from all sides and rightfully so!
What Rishi is basically saying is that if you give us a load of cash then you can do and say what the hell you like and we won't condemn you.
God only knows how politically clueless you have to be to think thats a good look
He met with Graham Brady tonight, if it gets close do we think he’ll roll the dice on an election in May?
We will know shortly, as I think the deadline to call a May election will be the end of this month?
My bet is they will hang on until the very last second (January 2025), salting the earth and raiding the wine cellar.
My bet is they will hang on until the very last second (January 2025), salting the earth and raiding the wine cellar.
Not a bad bet as they must know they are going to lose and that 20% that will always vote for them will still vote for them in January no matter how much more shit they get up to.
Also gives Stamer the time to make 10 or 20 more u turns that they will use against him along with any problems the Labour Party may have in that time.
Channel 4 news are saying that Rishi is definitely favouring a May election as looking at the potential numbers of letters going in, he won’t make it until the Autumn as the party is now completely ungovernable
Bring it on!
^^Well**** me.
I mean, we have got used to a completely corrupt and dysfunctional government unfortunately but this is extraordinary.
A country held hostage so some well paid Tory MP's that we are ment to trust the economy with can snuffle the truffle for a bit longer to pay off their coke dealer debts.
How the hell did we sink this low, this fast.
Rhetorical question.
How long we thinking before the Tories give back the £10 mil bung?
By Monday? Not at all?
Seems like there is more and more dissent amongst the Tory ranks.
Peston also reporting that Sunak intends to walk if there is a VONC in him!👍
Surely to god they can’t be seriously considering another leadership election, the unhinged bastards?
@ binners
Full Member
Surely to god they can’t be seriously considering another leadership election, the unhinged bastards?"
(Odd, no text formatting options?)
Anyway...
I bet truss would throw her hat into the ring. That would be epic to witness! Also a little scary.
Might as well give Lizzie another go, eh? It went so well last time and would surely be a fitting end to the recent years of total lunacy
They’re actually mental enough to do it, aren’t they?
^^Well**** me.
I mean, we have got used to a completely corrupt and dysfunctional government unfortunately but this is extraordinary.
A country held hostage so some well paid Tory MP’s that we are ment to trust the economy with can snuffle the truffle for a bit longer to pay off their coke dealer debts.
I heard the other day (possibly on the private eye podcast related to the Rochdale elections) that it costs MPs about £30k on average to campaign just to get selected?
That's from their own (or personal donors) pockets before they're the candidate and get party funding for the actual campaign.
[Edit: if true, still a shitty thing to delay an election over]
@ binners. They absolutely are. I long for boring but functional politics again.
Amen to that. Remember the days when you could go a whole week without some catastrophically inept government **** up
A WHOLE WEEK!
^^ I can just about remember, but boy, does it seem a long time ago.lol
I'm just watching Peston and the Asda chairman/ Tory Peer, pretty much endorsing Labour for government.
Amazing to behold.