[Closed] Right or wrong? F1 spectator.

Perhaps they thought Lewis was hungry when they threw bananas at him last year

English sportsmen racially abused in Spain shocker

Giving him the publicity was the first mistake.

Lewis is thinking -
Young Brit? F1 champ? Done well? Gorgeous women all over me? Few quid in the bank? Buckets of talent? Long career ahead of me? Intelligent? Well spoken?
Face? Bovvered?

Tell you what, If I was Lewis I'd be laughing my ass off. The guy is obviously a complete tool. Ugly git as well.

Still shouldn't happen though.

Coffeking - Totally agree, they said we had to bring it to attention! Well did they? Why? Stop giving these idiots airtime and they will stop doing it. IMHO

The tool has just returned to eat his bananas he threw last year.

It surprises me that the guy has the balls to do that in public.

If someone turned up at a football match looking like that he would get a pasting off white people, never mind anyone else.

Do the Spanish have major racial issues?

Why? Stop giving these idiots airtime and they will stop doing it. IMHO

I think it goes a little deeper than that.

Tell you what, If I was Lewis I'd be laughing my ass off.

I wouldn't, his car this year is useless and he's really underperforming.

I think it goes a little deeper than that.

It might, but if it wasnt broadcast and people didn't focus on the stupid minority with cameras they may start to get the hint that no-one cares about their thoughts. And at least those who didn't see it would not have to get offended when it's pushed in their face by the news.

Maybe that bloke is really black? 😉

and he's really underperforming.

pedant 🙂

Do the Spanish have major racial issues?

As individuals, some do, some don't. As a nation, yes.

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I'll get ripped for this I'm sure, but is that guy actually being racially abusive. I've seen stag do's wearing tartan ginger haired bonnets, sombrero's, toga's and all sorts of stuff like that. Would he be a racist if he had a Hamilton mask on?

I may be wrong but is he not just having a laugh? After all if somebody whitened his face and put on a fat suit to emulate me, I'd chuckle.

Maybe I'm missing something here as I don't really follow F1.

Tiny Tim used to 'white up' too.

As individuals, some do, some don't. As a nation, yes.

100% agree - give them another 10-15-20 years, a few race riots with 2nd generation immigrants demanding the same treatment as any other person born in Spain and it'll change, until then you'll still see golliwogs etc. in advertising, magazines etc.

In this case, they don't really see blacking-up as being any different to any other way of insulting someone.

Agreed. We used to go every year in a big group. One lad was black. The open abuse he got was appalling (although I note it only happened when the big group wasn't around). The spanish speakers amongst us confirmed that the locals would see him and then regularly begin a loud discussion about monkeys. This behaviour was so widespread it really put me off spaniards a bit. That and their attitude to pornography.

Do the Spanish have major racial issues?

Having travelled to Spain with a black colleague a few times it's obvious that they have a good few people who are openly racist, certainly a lot more than you'd find in any other country in W Europe
Whether they have a similar amount of racists as anywhere else but are just more open about it - I dunno

That and their attitude to pornography

Now I am fascinated!

It's in light of last year when a load blacked up and put on wigs then wore tshirts saying something like "Hamilton's Family" on them. I'm not going to say I've got a grip on what is offensive to everyone, but I'm pretty sure blacking up, wearing a McLaren shirt is not designed to be supportive.

Some places in spain, particularly in the south, don't do porn. We drove on a coach and would get stopped at roadblocks in little villages where a dodgy looking copper with a shotgun would start rooting through our luggage. Worried that they would find our stash of recrational substances we got our spanish speakers to try and keep them sweet. Turns out they were looking for pornographic material.

Actually, I've just realised now. They could well have been looking for it to confiscate and knock a quick one out over rather than wanting to burn it.

The Spanish ( maybe I should qualify that as Castillian ) have a historical record of racial intolerance. After the reconquista, Ferdinand lowered taxes on pigs, raising pork production massively and helping to starve the jewish and muslim populations of the time. Ethnic cleansing by quisine.

Of course the Spanish do not have a monopoly on this and other brands of racial intolerance are available.

After the reconquista, Ferdinand and Isabel forcibly converted all the Jews and Muslims to Christianity, and kicked out those that didn't obey. I'm not sure that pigs really came into it.

And attitudes to porn are certainly different here in Madrid, where it's freely available and the "best" powerpoint presentations freely shared over work email, often with one's boss...

I witnesed a group of locals give an African street seller some real abuse in Malaga last year. I can't speak spanish (yet) but it was obvious what they were saying. They didn't seem bothered who witnessed it either. It was a bit of an eye opener.

Do the Spanish have major racial issues?

Ah so its a language thing. Blacking up, throwing bananas and generally acting like British football supporters in the 70's is just a linguistic burp?

I remember the Spain manager Argones (Sp) telling Fabregas what he thought of his (then) team mate T Henry (Black male). He was telling him in very racist language how poorly he thought Mr Henry played football. There was a bit of an outcry but Spanish football never punished him in any form. Imagine the English manager making racist comments and the backalsh that would entail

No more than any other country I would say.
However the language is fairly different than english, and something that will shock you in english will be fairly common in spanish.

How does the language apply to the commonly available sweets [url= http://images.google.es/images?hl=es&rlz=1T4GGIH_esES270ES270&um=1&sa=1&q=conguitos&aq=f&oq= ]Conguitos[/url]?

TLH - Juan has says its just a language thing so it must be us English-speakers who are at fault for not understanding the subtle nuances of the Spanish language and the part throwing bananas and blacking up plays within it.

FFS is it touchy day today or what...

Not at all, just helpfully pointing out its all a big misunderstanding due to language differences.

🙂

maybe im being racist here but spain sometimes seems a bit backwards in places, certainly the more isolated villages are deeply tradiltional and very catholic
and the catholic church didnt just encourage pig farming they had the inquistion that used more than just the comfy cushion on jews and moores
i think prejudice is linked to their very traditional catholic ways

Do the Spanish have major racial issues?

Complicated to answer, but I think basically the answer is yes. Not really much different from the UK 25-30 years ago, Black and White Minstrel Show???
As Mogrim says, give them a few more years to catch up and understand and everything wil be fine.

Regarding the blackening of faces, it's Hamilton that they hate not the colour of his skin. If he was Scandinavian I'm sure blonde wigs and horned helmets would have been worn. In this case it's the man not the colour which is the issue.

Forgive me if I'm wrong but isn't Hamilton mixed race (his mum being a caucasian)?

Surely then blacking up is all about pointing out (part) of his racial background rather than just being about him as an individual?

Unless of course as Juan touches on, we're all being terribly ignorant about all this and its just a matter of confusion over linguistics.

In reply to Juan.

There are things in Spanish like 'puta mardre' or 'prostitute mother' in Spanish which are just terms of endearment,but Spain does have racial issues as well,it's possibly like Britain was in the 60s. From what my Spanish teacher has said about some members of his family in laws (he has a Spanish wife) and about general day to day life there,there does seem to be rather more prejudice there as a country than somewhere like the UK,or maybe somewhere like the UK in somewhere multicultural like London, for instance. He's mentioned a derogatory term for mixed race Latin Americans,which he has said he hear's being used quite regularly,and how it's a term to be aware of.

Unless of course as Juan touches on, we're all being terribly ignorant about all this and its just a matter of confusion over linguistics

It's not about something that's been said and mistranslated. This is someone blacking up. No one's going to tell me that all those monkey chants directed at the English football team in Madrid were actually Spanish expressions of encouragement that we've failed to understand.

tm - I whole-hearted agree, Spain seems to have a real problem with racism.

Of course some posters on this thread believe that its just that its just that we don't understand the subtle nuances of Spanish culture and language that leads to draw the conclusion that, as a country, they are a bunch of knuckle dragging bigots.

Of course I'm fully aware that by calling an entire populace "knuckle dragging bigots" I too am guilty of generalising hugely, but to touch on what I posted earlier I'm sure there are many thousands of Spaniards who would be disgusted by the behaviour of this blacked-up individual but as a country (and the institutions therein) have consistently failed to take appropriate action against this kind of racist behaviour in the past and until they do start to crack down it'll be a mark against the country in my eyes.

Just to play devils advocate for a minute...

Surely then blacking up is all about pointing out (part) of his racial background rather than just being about him as an individual?

It could be simply that that is the most distinguishing feature of him, he's pretty plain and boring otherwise. Either way I think its a bit pathetic to go out with negative symbols of the opposition rather than positive symbols of your own "side".

Sooty; are you as much an expert on Spainish culture, as you are on hekelopter flight paths? 🙄

I find it somewhat inertesting, that some of those expressing disgust at the attitudes of what is surely a minority of Spainish people, are those who see nowt wrong in using the term 'gay' in a derogatory manner...

in Britain, we chose to label others 'pikeys' or 'chavs', instead of being outright racist. And while it's true, that Britain leads the way, when it comes to issues of racial integration and equality, we still have a long way to go. The Spainish have many aspects of culture that we can only envy, so to label them a nation of bigots is a tad narrow-sighted.

Oh, sorry; I forgot. This is STW, is not it? 😀

in Britain, we chose to label others 'pikeys' or 'chavs', instead of being outright racist.

The terms pikey or chav have absolutely no relation to race or religion (even if they may have been derived from such a source originally). They're an insult based on peoples choice of clothing and attitude (and willingness to steal), things they can and do choose.

Bollocks. It's to do with class, for sure, and culture. And don't tell me that the treatment of 'pikeys' ('tinkers', 'gypos', traveling folk) is not as nasty as racism. I've read things on here, where people have suggested gassing 'pikeys'. And shooting 'chavs'. It's still prejudicial behaviour, don't try to dress it up as harmless.

And there's enough narrow-mindedness regarding homosexuality on here. Funny, though, that reporting homophobic behaviour gets no response.

Too many people on here think they are somehow superior to others. Think they have the moral right to judge and look down on others different to themselves. To me, it just reveals ignorance and fear.

Mind, it's a lot safer to voice onions, sitting behind a keyboard, eh?

Not an expert of Spanish culture at all, nor did I profess to be in any of the posts I've made. Indeed I thank Juan for pointing out its a linguistic nuance that I as an Englishman have failed to identify which now helps me to see blacking-up and banana throwing as part of the rich history of the language and culture of Spain rather than being bigoted acts that have no place in the 21st century.

Of course on the other hand when the 'helicopter incident' happened I was [i]slightly more aware[/i] of the ins and outs of Chinook operations than your clueless 'source at the MoD', although I'm not in that position anymore.

Careful sooty, you are being lured into an argument about gypsies with Rudeboy. He lives in the high moral ground on this matter, and you will be massacred in the plains of ignorance and bigoty. Your best course of action is to retreat at once.

😉

The Spainish have many aspects of culture that we can only envy, so to label them a nation of bigots is a tad narrow-sighted.

Yes but we're not talking about art or cuisine are we ?

Seems to me that the racism that some people in Spain feel comfortable enough to display at sporting events is comparable to where we were pre the summer of E and Italia 90. The fact that it appears that there is no close monitoring of this behaviour tends to suggest that Spanish society does not feel that it's such a problem that it has ( so far )to implement adequate controls of it. I'm sure that we would disagree and I can see that there might be different cultural interprations in that regard. I certainly wouldn't consider all Spaniards to be racist either as I've travelled in the peninsular and met lots of great people.

Indeed I thank Juan for pointing out its a linguistic nuance that I as an Englishman have failed to identify which now helps me to see blacking-up and banana throwing as part of the rich history of the language and culture of Spain rather than being bigoted acts that have no place in the 21st century.

Well english must eb very difficult indeed. I do not pretend myself as a spanish culture expert, just a french bloke from spanish immigrant parents. However, when I go to spain I don't feel more racism than when I am in UK. And as for the linguistic expression, somethign like a "****" will be considered rude and offensive in UK, Un negro (black) or un gitano which is the same won't be considered anywhere as offensive in spain.

But hey as said earlier on, this is STW....

Behave yourself, Sooty. You were a mechanic. Hardly someone privvy to as much information as a Press/PR bloke! Oh, and since then, I've spoken to an actual Chinook pilot; he told me that they use the River as a navigational aid (they also use the River Lee), but 'coon't comment' on the 'ditching' thing. 😉

And don't try being facetious.

You do make me laugh, though.

Some people in Spain do have issues with racism.
Some people in the UK do have issues with racism.
How is calling Spanish people "knuckle dragging bigots" helping resolve the problem?

RudeBoy And while it's true, that Britain leads the way, when it comes to issues of racial integration and equality

Lol. Can I come and live in your bubble? What's it called again Loondon? No wonder you are always claiming the high ground on religious and racial tolerance.

And as for the linguistic expression, somethign like a "****" will be considered rude and offensive in UK, Un negro (black) or un gitano which is the same won't be considered anywhere as offensive in spain.

Calling someone black and calling someone a **** is not the same thing. Calling someone who is a gypsy (gitano),a gypsy, is not a bad thing. Calling them some derogatory name is.

Gnar; who rattled your cage? 😉

He lives in the high moral ground on this matter, and you will be massacred in the plains of ignorance and bigoty.

This is true.

Anyway, can't be bothered with this one. All been done before.