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Proposed upgrade details here https://www.transport.gov.scot/news/public-asked-for-input-on-eleven-options-for-new-access-to-argyll-and-bute/
Think it's a X factor style thing where you vote for your favourite, sorry the bean counters will go for the cheapest option!
Sadly no tunnel option, but quite like the bridge options.
Particularly the ones that involve bridges from Inverclyde to Little Cumbrae to Bute then Bute to the mainland again.
The French would throw up a bridge on pillars straight up the valley. No messing.
Some of those 11 options are bat shit mental
The fixed link crossing over the Firth of Clyde will present considerable challenges. This area is used by large marine vessels as well MOD submarines which are based at Faslane and Coulport. The structure will require to span a deep section of the Firth of Clyde as well as have adequate clearance for large marine vessels.
No Shit Sherlock.
I think they have to throw in the non-starters just to head off some of the zoomers.
#4
Some of those 11 options are bat shit mental
Particularly the ones that involve bridges from Inverclyde to Little Cumbrae to Bute then Bute to the mainland again.
This. (That's still Ayrshire BTW, Bandit Country is anything north of Skelmorlie)
Who the hell thought a bridge starting on the A78 (which can be closed along with the A760 in bad weather in either direction) past the power station cooling inlet (I'm sure all the silt would be brilliant for the cooling loops) to an unpopulated private island (bypassing the one that actually has queues of folk for the ferry every nice day), then on to another island before finally hitting the peninsula in an absolute nowhere location. Avoiding the heavy marine traffic as already noted. Add in the fact it's a crappy place to get to from anywhere and that's solid gold.
To be honest anything involving a Clyde crossing is looking terrible and the local options are more of the same.
Presumably everyone at Transport Scotland is working from home and so couldn't do field visits to see how incredible some of those ideas are! I quite like the way they are thinking outside the box, but I couldn't see any data on where the start and end points were for a typical journey? e.g. if its Edinburgh to Oban or M6 to Campbeltown then the preferred options are rather different.
Just reading through the 11 options listed in the previously mentioned consultation document
Only Option 1 keeps the A83 going up the Rest and be Thankful. Surely an elevated section up the middle of the glen, well away from the landslide fallout area, is the cheapest, least disruptive and quickest permanent solution?
Options 2-11 go from ripping up unspoiled glens to having major bridges near nuclear bases or threading new routes (presumably to trunk road standard) along established routes that currently have steep hills and single track roads with passing places. The cost of any of these options rules them out, let alone the environmental, military or engineering challenges. I'd love a wee bit of whatever they are smoking, absolutely mental.
I think building at ground level through a different glen would be cheaper than an elevated road, and maybe the an elevated road would be considered more environmentally bad. The options with major bridges are clearly very expensive but I assumed they would have other economic benefits than just being a diversion round the Rest and Be Thankful (still think they won't happen though!).
TBH for all it's a pretty area there's nothing I can remember in the glens around it that is really outstanding- it's all deforested, quite a bit of modern tree farms and sheepfold but hardly untouched.
Here is how they did it at KIlliecrankie.
https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/index.php?title=Pass_of_Killiecrankie
£11M at 1986 prices for a 2.5Km stretch of road. So likely to be expensive putting the A83 road on stilts on the existing line.
So I still think the best option would be up the middle of Glen Croe and get up the hill at the end with some mix of embankment, zigzags, cutting, and/or short tunnel.
Surely there would hae to be a road closure and inspection every time there was a landslip hitting those pillars anyway? I'm failing to see that as a viable option.
And I'd have thought that any road zig-zagging its way up the top of the glen might be similarly susceptible to landslip. Having said that, it is possible that the land profile and soil structure there makes it less likely.
there’s nothing I can remember in the glens around it that is really outstanding
There's the River Kinglas, which was one of the most amazing continuous hard creeks in the UK. Full on brilliant kayaking for mile after mile. Took my first swim on nearly 3 years on there.
https://www.ukriversguidebook.co.uk/rivers/scotland/west-highlands/photos/river-kinglas
Alas it has been dammed, but ...
Scotroutes
I think the difference at the head of the Glen is a less steep slope and also a short hillside above. There is a couple of thousands of feet draining heavy rain on to the current road. There must be a reason the old 19th century line of the military road is usually available as a bypass when the modern road is blocked.
The line of the modern A83 (yep, closed again folks...) is clearly to maintain an even gradient from Laigh Glencroe farm to the Rest viewpoint. It does this very well but traverses an increasingly unstable slope in the process. Diverting west to ascend the valley floor on stilts solves the unstable mountain issue while allowing an even gradient to be maintained. It's the obvious solution but quite spendy, hence the batshit mental consultation process listing loonball or unaffordable bridges over Rhu Narrows, Loch Long (both downstream from nuke bases) or Lesser Cumbrae to kill the whole thing dead. They need to MTFU and accept the need for a sizeable investment to prevent a tragedy, which would trigger said sizeable investment anyway. If it took Edinburgh lawyers and politicians from their work to their But & Ben in Fife it would already have been built #Queensferrycrossing
irc
Free MemberThere must be a reason the old 19th century line of the military road is usually available as a bypass when the modern road is blocked.
I don't know how true this is but a civil engineer colleague of mine told me that actually the military road gets damaged about as often as the main one, it's just that it's simpler/quicker to fix, and nobody notices as long as the main road is open. You only ever hear about a military road blockage or similar, when the A83's shut.
The OMR is much further down the slope. Most of the landslide debris peters out before it reaches the OMR. The August 5th slip was unusual in that it knocked both roads out, resulting in ferry trips for many of us. The downside of the OMR is uneven gradients and some tight bends that catch out artics, coaches and even caravanners.
Bring back the devils elbow.
That'll keep the caravans at bay.
The next instalment of "investment" is underway. Link to BBC here.
I wonder how long it will take landslides of the magnitude regularly witnessed here to overwhelm a 6m high defence.
After all the consultation and proposals, "A route through Glen Croe near the existing road has now been identified."
I think there are still night closures. It is taking ages, and it is almost like the first step in the process is to train an Engineer. From scratch.
This doesn't effect me at all, but I'd be very frustrated if I needed to use this road regularly.
It seems like the new route is being chosen basically as an easier but imperfect medium term solution rather than a harder perfect fix? Which seems pretty sensible as long as it's not just basically kicking the can. I see people talking about it as the "cheap option" but easy probably means faster too.
If I read it right, they've decided to still go up Glen Croe but haven't decided what route to use yet. I bet 10p they put it up the other side of the valley and upgrade the end of the B828, any takers?