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The school are amazing. Shows what can be done with dedication, some independent thought and accountability. I have real confidence in their risk management based on all the information they have shared.
That's great; I wish my kids school have been like that.
At my wife's school a couple of teachers have taught their class to a camera and run it on Google classroom. Brilliant. There again, others have not been seen for 6 weeks and don't even respond to emails from the Head.
a_a shows that the aphorism "kick one and they all limp" could have been invented for teachers. Why not understand that not all teachers can or will put effort in?
Just coz some are crap doesn't write off the entire profession but it's not realistic to think that all are brilliant and beyond criticism.
just coz some are crap doesn’t write off the entire profession but it’s not realistic to think that all are brilliant and beyond criticism.
As with any group of workers at the moment, looking at the stats for my civil service team. Just wish management understood how to find the stats
Have teachers been put on 80% salary yet? Just asking, maybe it’s time if not.
Have teachers been put on 80% salary yet? Just asking, maybe it’s time if not.
They're still working, so why would they be?
Any of the teachers have any insight into how book marking is going to work in the returning classes?
I've pretty much never done this. Are there still teachers who take a pile of jotters home to mark? There are far more effective and efficient ways to give feedback.
We will need to adapt how we view pupil work though. Not an issue for us though really as all pupils have a Chromebook and we can continue with work being done on Google classroom once they're back in the real classroom.
Have teachers been put on 80% salary yet? Just asking, maybe it’s time if not.
Wait, you want all teachers to stop work? That's what the furlough scheme entails.
Can't see how that would help pupils.
Have teachers been put on 80% salary yet? Just asking, maybe it’s time if not.
As above they are working. In our school teaching multiple lessons a day on MS Teams, marking and giving feedback. Normal dept meetings being held online, regular e-mails and phone calls to students in their tutor groups, plus on rota for school (including over Easter and half-term) to cover children of key workers and vulnerable children. I’m support staff now (used to be deputy head, now safeguarding lead) and I’m working about 6-7 hours a day at home.
Wait, you want all teachers to stop work? That’s what the furlough scheme entails.
Happy days, where do I sign up?
Happy days, where do I sign up?
They mooted furloughing teachers at my mate's private school but then they realised that meant they couldn't work and the paying customers would be a bit upset at the lack of service!
As ever, the other question will be one of consistency.
Out plans for year 10 are super cautious. From June 8 we are open to students who want to return (my survey of parents returned under 40% 'yes' responses), but they will initially only be in for one session each week for face to face support with work already set on our online platforms. This will mean only 5 students in school for each half day session (with capacity currently for up to 15). We may well expand this at some point.
In contrast, another school locally (working to the same guidelines) is looking to get half their entire year 10 cohort in at a time (approx. 110 students) for something that currently looks like a fairly normal provision.
Given the unofficial SAGE advice yesterday, I know which context I'm currently happier working in...
Not necessarily furlough, just a reduction to reflect productivity.
Our school is talking 1/2hour face to face meetings from 8th June. Seems crazy to me, how long to you have to be in a room with someone before its classed as close contact?
And another question all the talk is about children not spreading as much but what is the definition of a child they are using do 15yr olds or 17year olds count? We also wont necessarily being seeing the kids we teach so I'm not that sure what the point is.
Not necessarily furlough, just a reduction to reflect productivity.
Your use of the word productivity suggests that you think education works like manufacturing which is erroneous for a start. How are you defining and measuring productivity in education?
@136stu, I know you're on a wind up but I'll bite.
Not necessarily furlough, just a reduction to reflect productivity
Fine. This furloughed aren't working so no productivity cut that funding. Lots of business not being productive but being supported by public funds/borrowing so cut that. I will admit I'm probably getting 60% of what is like done but it's taking me a lot longer to do it and that doesn't include a lot of meetings on how we carry on. I understand that you think you know what you're talking about but really you don't, and won't want to.
Tell us what you do and we'll make some high level generalisations about your job.
We also wont necessarily being seeing the kids we teach so I’m not that sure what the point is.
We've tried to mitigate that as much as possible. Each small group will have 3 'lessons' in their weekly session. One English, one Maths, and the other for an option subject that has a coursework element. The EN and MA will be generic but I've been able to get most of the other sessions to be with their regular teacher while still minimising the number of teaching staff we need in school each day (currently just 3 or 4). Not quite full 'bubbles' but close.
We also wont necessarily being seeing the kids we teach so I’m not that sure what the point is.
Isn’t contact with a teacher, any teacher, a good thing after two months of isolation? It’s an opportunity to engage with someone who may be nervous about the future, have questions about how they learn, how they should be feeling about education or friends, what options to take etc etc etc.
Don’t underestimate the impact some contact with any teaching professional could have after so long with online (or no) engagement. There’s going to be huge value in it, even if it’s not all syllabus related.
I think the reason for getting primary age pupils in is that parents can then get back to work and get the economy moving.
So Reception, Yr1 and Yr6 ??? Given a average 2 kids per family and 2-3 years between kids how does that work?
Academically: Yr-6 is already over...Yr1 and reception is just childcare anyway.
@andrewreah
Then last week were in touch with us Yr 6 parents to gauge interest in a return after half term.
After which they gave loads of information on plans, including photos of the classrooms (already set up for a return to school) and have consistently answered questions each day e.g. what about wearing masks?
I'm getting the parent stuff... the OH as a teacher is getting the reality.
I saw a Zoom meeting with staff members in with 1/2 of them not even a meter apart. One of whom was coughing.
Social distancing to be done "when we can but obviously not possible for example at lunch, in corridors"
Unofficial calls between teachers is "there is no point even trying and those who haven't had it yet will"
Extract from school email yesterday. Seems to imply there's a possibility of being in this for the longterm, and no immediate plans to open. For context our boy in yr8 has been on a school timetable which has half an hour of exercise each morning, 18 lessons spread over a week, plus half an hour's free reading each day. Daughter in yr10, I have no real idea, she's self sufficient and diligent, but seems to have close to a full days class work (though I imagine lots of facetime and zoom with friends), plus homework in the evening.
We still await the detailed guidance for the opening of secondary schools after the holidays. Therefore, we will not be opening more widely for Years 10 and 12 yet. We will hopefully have some more information on that after half term.
We have been listening to your feedback and, as a result, we have revised the Key Stage 3 timetable after half term (copy attached). It contains more lessons for each year group. In addition, there will be more extension tasks to keep students challenged and we will be looking to make more use of “Loom” and “Voiceover”. Clearly, our country and its education system will be affected by this virus for some time to come and we are sourcing more training for setting online lessons for our students. When we have done this there may be a short period of time next half term when we do not set any work for students in order for staff to undergo this training. The benefit will be for the students in the longer term as we become ever more adept at adapting to our new online world and are able to blend a combination of face to face and remote learning should it be needed.
Even more cautious than us!
Forgot to mention that alongside the limited opening for Year 10, we are changing our remote offer for them and other year groups after the half term break. More live lessons (audio only though) and live Q&A sessions, more prerecorded video and audio content.
I'd like us to move to live video lessons too, but in our context understand why we're loath to do so.
Isn’t contact with a teacher, any teacher, a good thing after two months of isolation?
It is of course, but given I will be spending my time sat opposite some snotty year 10, I'd prefer it to be with someone I really know. If its not going to be subject specific I'd prefer tutors to do it after collating info from subject teachers. I could meet my tutor group and have feedback to pass on from all subjects, well apart from PE teachers, they cant write.
Have teachers been put on 80% salary yet? Just asking, maybe it’s time if not.
The teacher in this house is paid for 2.5 days a week, and has been working 5 (plus weekend marking) since kids started working from home. Didn’t take a single day off for Easter… is working right now. I think I’ll pretend the phone line is dead on Monday to force a full day off for her. Have you worked all the recent bank holidays @136stu ?
Kelvin, as a matter of fact, yes I have.
You’ll be telling us she works every day of the 6 week holiday next.
@136stu it's obvious you're trolling, but you're also being a ****.
By your furlough argument, everyone who's furloughed should be paid £0, well unless they're working, in which case they shouldn't be being paid the furlough money.
I'm working as much as I can under the circumstances (Yes, I'm a teacher), but lets say you didn't pay teachers, they'll all go off and find other jobs, and then who will teach the little dears when schools reopen properly?
Now back under your bridge, that's a good little troll.
You’ll be telling us she works every day of the 6 week holiday next.
Do you work during your contractually provided holiday time?
(besides which, teachers' holidays are technically unpaid anyway)
Feel I should say that my daughters school has been fantastic in this. Took them about a week to get up and running with Google Classroom, plus we already had Mathletics and online English. She's in year 4, and is getting a pretty full week of work. The head reads bedtime stories, as a lovely example, and my daughter has to upload a synopsis of the story that week. Teacher definitely contactable, and rung me in the early stages to explain how things might work.
School has been in contact regularly to explain what's going on. This week they've confirmed detailed plans for re-opening early June. They've been open and honest about the reality of social distancing, and have made clear it was always the parents' decision. I hope this extends to the staff.
Genuinely couldn't be more impressed, sadly not hearing such great things about another local school. This is where the govt. needs to step up and provide much better support and assistance to schools. I'd hope that this coordination might move forward over the summer break, equipping schools with more advanced home learning capability for a return in September. Am I a dreamer?
This is where the govt. needs to step up and provide much better support and assistance to schools. I’d hope that this coordination might move forward over the summer break, equipping schools with more advanced home learning capability for a return in September. Am I a dreamer?
I am not aware of ANY support Gov have given schools (other than money for laptops) just pages of guidance which is updated constantly. It’s down to individual schools and academy chains to organise. Even our local authority has been s***. Luckily most heads and staff have proven to be flexible and innovative with lots of coordination between local schools.
I’d heard David Blunkett on the radio laying into the unions over their calls for evidence and mitigation as regards increased school opening… but missed that Alan Johnson has been up to it as well…
Lots of wittering on about public opinion, as if the virus listens to that.
Lord Adonis too
The unions are backing themselves into a corner, social distancing in schools is not compatible with giving all kids a full education in the UK. I can't see things being fundamentally different in September but the kids need to go back full time.
I can’t see things being fundamentally different in September but the kids need to go back full time.
I would say this is looking less likely, especially as is looking more likely, we get another spike in infections.
We've still got a death rate of about 250 per day, whereas other EU countries are under 50...BUT we're trying to come out if lockdown at the same pace as them.
The unions are backing themselves into a corner, social distancing in schools is not compatible with giving all kids a full education in the UK.
I agree with that. But I also find it really hard to square that with all the other workplaces who are obliged to implement social distancing.
I can’t see things being fundamentally different in September but the kids need to go back full time.
IN September I think the rationale is far fewer active cases plus track and trace will mean social distancing is not quite so critical. I don't think full time is a definitive need. What if part time plus online learning was viable?
What if part time plus online learning was viable?
Rather depends on flexibility of child care or parents work for the non school days.
The unions are backing themselves into a corner, social distancing in schools is not compatible with giving all kids a full education in the UK.
so teachers, their families, the kids themselves and their families all have to be put at risk?
Rather depends on flexibility of child care or parents work for the non school days.
It does, not sure how that works either tbh. Must be semi functional though as its what we have now. Perhaps there's some scope for government support on that side?
Rather depends on flexibility of child care or parents work for the non school days.
Same applies to teachers, with no before or after school clubs, we cant both work on the same day.
so teachers, their families, the kids themselves and their families all have to be put at risk?
To be blunt yes, everyone will be at some of level risk. The question is the level of risk vs the other factors, in this case kids education, the economy, kids at risk being at home. It's not a simple situation, health and safety rarely is, it's always a judgment on a sliding scale of risk vs severity vs consequences of not undertaking the activity associated with hazard.
Every day teachers are at risk of abuse, violence (from kids and parents), tranmissable diseases, road accidents on the commute to work etc. Life isn't risk free.
As AA points out societal structure needs everything to work or very little of it works, no after school clubs means some teachers have to work reduced hours, resulting in reduced timetables, meaning many parents can't effectively return to the workplace.
I don't see reduced classroom time as viable, kids have already lost 3 months of schooling, we're constantly told how important all school time is and even missing 2 weeks can damage a child's education. Can't see science, DT, PE or even foreign languages being taught well remotely, even with the best teaching in the world remote learning isn't as effective as face to face. Also when are the teachers going to find the time to teach all the reduced size classes and still prepare high quality on line learning? Teachers class room time won't reduce under social distancing, just the number of pupils they teach at the same time.
Also when are the teachers going to find the time to teach all the reduced size classes and still prepare high quality on line learning? Teachers class room time won’t reduce under social distancing, just the number of pupils they teach at the same time.
Surely the first requires the same amount of input as the second? Halving the class size to maintain social distancing means you need twice the teachers? I wouldn't propose teachers prepare on line learning - there are plenty of providers already, I'd suggest the government can supplement that and work towards building it into the curriculum.
Our schools are set up to deliver face to face learning currently. I'm suggesting that building in at least the potential for some structured offsite study would be useful. Clearly this would have helped over the last few months, and will help further should covid prove more stubborn to defeat.
Can’t see science, DT, PE or even foreign languages being taught well remotely, even with the best teaching in the world remote learning isn’t as effective as face to face.
But it is more effective than no teaching at all.
I wouldn’t propose teachers prepare on line learning – there are plenty of providers already
Not sure who all these online providers are. My experience is that they either want paying or don't meet the curricular needs.
ajantom
SubscriberWe’ve still got a death rate of about 250 per day, whereas other EU countries are under 50…BUT we’re trying to come out if lockdown at the same pace as them.
Yup. Gavin Williamson points to Denmark as proof it can work. Denmark had 3 deaths and 36 new cases today.
Stumpyjon
Are you prepared to take that risk? Without the possibility of mitigation?
If I was a teacher there is no way I would be going back and I would be taking action under health and safety act due to the lack of proper safety measures
It's very easy for you to say others should take risks
Not sure who all these online providers are. My experience is that they either want paying or don’t meet the curricular needs.
Some are already embedded - certainly at my daughters school things like Mathletics have been in place for at least 5 years. Of course they'll want paying - no reason to believe that education would be exempt from the increased costs of the pandeminc. Certainly, they won't be aligned to the curriculum yet, again no reason to believe that's impossible.
I will state the obvious;
If there are subsequent waves, schools will shut again. Schools cannot double in size, should full class sizes prove a significant vector. If there are localised outbreaks around schools, track and trace would expect teachers and pupils to isolate.
All of these things say to me that working on distance learning is unbelievably worthwhile at the moment. The alternative - to expect that normal service will resume and continue, so no changes are needed - just seems really optimistic to me.
Some are already embedded – certainly at my daughters school things like Mathletics have been in place for at least 5 years. Of course they’ll want paying – no reason to believe that education would be exempt from the increased costs of the pandeminc. Certainly, they won’t be aligned to the curriculum yet, again no reason to believe that’s impossible.
I will state the obvious;
If there are subsequent waves, schools will shut again. Schools cannot double in size, should full class sizes prove a significant vector. If there are localised outbreaks around schools, track and trace would expect teachers and pupils to isolate.
All of these things say to me that working on distance learning is unbelievably worthwhile at the moment. The alternative – to expect that normal service will resume and continue, so no changes are needed – just seems really optimistic to me.
That all sounds brilliant.
It would require quite a bit of investment and a coordinated, joined up approach from the top down. Neither of these are things that tend to happen in education. In my experience what tends to happen is minimal investment, vague guidance and an expectation that individual schools and individual teachers will just somehow make it work.
ONline learning has been the issue with my sons school.
For context the school is small (90 pupils total across all school years). In order to support key worker children 1 teacher has had to come in one day a week each. No teachers have been required in on a Friday. All the other teachers have been home during this time.
We have had no support in terms of home learning other than the occasional task on class dojo. Other than that is is expected to through the Oak Learning Academy. Each lesson on Oak is supposed to be one hour. Our son completes them in 20 mins (he is 6).
If his beaver colony can organise a weekly zoom meeting with fun activities I struggle to understand why the school cannot provide similar with the teaching staff being at home. Yes they also have to look after their children but this is no different to anyone else home working and looking after children. Doing a weekly zoom call for an hour as a bare minimum is not a difficult thing to try and achieve. Some children would not attend for various reasons but it shouldn't be based on those who don't want to attend pulling it down.
In any case the school has delayed opening for at least 1 week (8th June) until the infection rate has come down further (based on the Sage report).