[Closed] Religion - theological question

Like I said it is applicable to ALL

but how do you know ? You cannot make it so just by [b]bolding[/b] it.

You need not take my word for it but investigate them yourself then ask yourself if it is possible to have a result without action?

if I were to investigate it, how would I know if it applied in other contexts ? It's simple enough to imagine others where it didn't, and impossible to prove they don't exist. In any case, I don't know how you would investigate C and E, we kind of take it for granted in the here and now, making it a circular argument

simonfbarnes - Member
but how do you know ? You cannot make it so just by bolding it.

Can you not observe it yourself? Can you not put some efforts into observing? After all you are in charge of your own learning and understanding. It might take time, a very long time but eventually you will know.

So if you observe events carefully you will find that there will always be a cause and effect or at least the conditions that might or will enable future actions. It will never cease. For example, in a very brute simplistic sense as a person your thoughts turn into action and action create result and the result will have implication on you or others.

Or if you are a scientist your knowledge(condition/thought) enables/encourages you to do experiments(action) which leads to +ve/-ve outcome (result) that will have impact (implication) on your/all/society etc depending on your initial thought & action.

The sequence is there so you need to decide how you want to sequence to continue that's all. You are in charge of your own direction.

if I were to investigate it, how would I know if it applied in other contexts ? It's simple enough to imagine others where it didn't, and impossible to prove they don't exist. In any case, I don't know how you would investigate C and E, we kind of take it for granted in the here and now, making it a circular argument

Simple answer. Try it. No point reading and learning while not even try or dare to give it a go. You simply need to observe how things unfold with the chain reaction but obviously there will be distraction (many conditions) when your are doing your observation of events.

Yes, we have taken things for granted or simply being distracted by all that surrounds us. We are entering the forest but see no firewood. Yes, you see circular argument here because you have not started to observe the events yourself. Once you have done so you will move on to another set of questions but we all start from somewhere.

🙂

It's not common sense since the vast majority, who [s]have faith in creation[/s] who read popular science, cannot comprehend it nor see how it works instead prefer to leave out it of their own thinking by relying on others to conjure something up.

Fixed that for ya 🙂

Seriously though, surely you can see the massive irony in what you're saying?

Can you not observe it yourself? Can you not put some efforts into observing?

of course, but I don't assume my observations apply to every possible universe 🙂 Or for that matter that they reliably reflect the one I'm in...

As a general principle, I don't bother to argue with people with religious beliefs, as their judgement is so obviously so fundamentally flawed to begin with, and so many believe that atheism is inconsistent with living within a moral framework, it's like arguing with people who believe that the earth is flat, or the moon is made of cheese,dogs are good,black pudding isn't technically a vegetable etc.

Thank you and goodnight.

Simple answer. Try it. No point reading and learning while not even try or dare to give it a go.

and I'm saying one cannot use one's assumptions to investigate their own validity

I don't bother to argue with people with religious beliefs

well, we seem to have strayed into epistemological backwaters, with [b]chewkw[/b] getting all stampy foot over my rejection of universal unconditional cause and effect, which isn't particularly religious....

simonfbarnes - Member

of course, but I don't assume my observations apply to every possible universe Or for that matter that they reliably reflect the one I'm in...

Well, it's up to you as to what you intend to observe really and I think trying to understand the universe perhaps is a bit far fetch for all our tiny minds at the moment but personal situation could be a good starting point. Just don't dwell on it too long.

simonfbarnes - Member

and I'm saying one cannot use one's assumptions to investigate their own validity

Nobody is going to judge you on your assumptions or validity (no creator btw) you have to make up your mind whether to reject or to accept what you observe but before coming to a conclusion perhaps it is best to keep an open minded approach to your reasoning that's all. That's only a start before you find out more yourself.

well, we seem to have strayed into epistemological backwaters, with chewkw getting all stampy foot over my rejection of universal unconditional cause and effect, which isn't particularly religious....

Stampy foot? LOL! You are accountable for yourself and nobody else so my views make no different to others if they do not investigate matters themselves. (note: the notion of creator is NOT plausible as that goes against my understanding)

What I am saying is to investigate matter a bit more that's all and hopefully you will find something useful. Aristotle, although a great philosopher, looks at things differently and his is the part of the foundation for all Western thinking which continues until today but is he right? That's the question.

🙂

jahwomble - Member

As a general principle, I don't bother to argue with people with religious beliefs, as their judgement is so obviously so fundamentally flawed to begin with, and so many believe that atheism is inconsistent with living within a moral framework, it's like arguing with people who believe that the earth is flat, or the moon is made of cheese,dogs are good,black pudding isn't technically a vegetable etc.

Thank you and goodnight.

The argument for a creator is flawed as that goes against the principle of cause & effect while atheism could do with more investigation. IMO both are extreme in their views if not careful.

Goodnight? The night is still young. 😆

The argument for a creator is flawed as that goes against the principle of cause & effect

but couldn't exactly the same argument be equally levelled at any other entity or universe ?