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the only bit of free will is the choice to follow the rules or not. once you've signed up you can't leave bits out.
according to you, the religion or god(s) ?
Well given that the Them and Us divide is based on the divide between Catholics and Protestant
And why are there Catholics and Protestants? Because English Protestant landowners were installed in NI at the expense of Catholic Irish...
So it's Catholic v Protestant, but it's also English v Irish, landowner vs peasant, and incomer vs native.
Which of those highly emotive lines of conflict is worse?
On the subject of the bible, I suspect most thoughtful religious people think that the bible may have been the word of God at one point, but what we currently use is a very long way from the original text. For a start, half of it's been cut.
so you can bleieve it is the word of god[ who is always correct] yet it has errors in it but it is completely true and accurate in matters of faith /practice.... nope cant see anything wrong with that view.
What?
EDIT:
What I am saying is that Christians can debate on what the real meaning is contained within the text of the bible. Because that real meaning may have been obscured.
Dunno what the problem is there.
me:which religion?
does it matter?
well having said:
"If you believe the bible is the word of god then you are not free to pick and choose while still claiming to be following the religion set down in the bible."
one might suppose you meant a particular one and not just "any"
yes i'd agree, yet you can't be a Christian and not believe in biblical infallibility.
I think Catholics are suppose to believe in [b]papal[/b] infallibility, but there are many other brands of Christianity, and for example Catholics ignore the laws of Kosher set down...
Yeah, but the question is:
What tyres for catholicism?
😀
And why are there Catholics and Protestants? Because English Protestant landowners were installed in NI at the expense of Catholic Irish...
So you agree that it is to do with religion then.
So it's Catholic v Protestant, but it's also English v Irish, landowner vs peasant, and incomer vs native.Which of those highly emotive lines of conflict is worse?
Well given that it all started around religion I'm going with that being the worst as it seems to have been the root cause.
On the subject of the bible, I suspect most thoughtful religious people think that the bible may have been the word of God at one point, but what we currently use is a very long way from the original text. For a start, half of it's been cut.
Right, I'm confused now. If the bible now [i]isn't[/i] the word of god then why do most christians put so much faith in it?
Religion is about the imposition of a set of rules on the unruly. Easiest to do it as a club whereby if you're in good stuff happens and if you're out you are socially, politically and economically excluded. Fantastic in its simplicity and very frightening how so many fall for it and seem to need it even now.
Personally my beliefs are mine and mine alone. One of them is that anyone who endeavours to inform me of or persuade me that their beliefs have more validity than mine is automatically by that token someone to be avoided.
Ok so.
To me, the problem I have is with the reification of the concept of 'God'. We see that various religions treat the portrayal of God in different ways; Christian art depicts God as a male Human figure, Hinduism has loads of weird looking creatures, and Islam forbids any depiction of Allah.
But creating an image of God is understandable; how do you explain the Unseen to people, in a manner they might understand? To me, 'God' is not something that can be quantified, reified or reduced to any form which is instantly understandable. I think most religions work on this basis too, it's just that their depictions and concepts are suggestions, maybe, of what such a being could be. Perhaps it's just impossible for collective Humanity to have a God/s that are beyond the limit of our imagination and reasoning. Maybe we need something tangible, something 'real'.
Funny, that Atheists need 'God' in order to be able to argue with others, and sell their books....
[url=
video - The lunacy of Sharia Law[/url]
Don't worry, it's not graphic.
Do some digging about Islam, then tell me we should be tolerant towards it.
It's the stuff of the Dark Ages and THERE IS NO PLACE FOR IT IN A CIVILIZED SOCIETY!
Do some digging about Islam, then tell me we should be tolerant towards it.
I grew up in a Muslim family, and live in an area with lots of Muslim people. The vast majority are nice. My own personal experience of Islam is quite positive overall, as is my experience of Christianity and other religions.
Mind you, I don't read paranoid hysterical right-wing bullshit newspapers, or listen to phobic crankpots, so what do I know, eh?
Spongebob; you speak of tolerance, yet you seem completely intolerant towards Islam.
Do you mind if we laugh at you?
Funny, that Atheists need 'God' in order to be able to argue with others
not god, but the concept of god. And certainly one could discuss atheism without mentioning gods, any more than one would need to mention custard or knitting...
And certainly one could discuss atheism without mentioning gods
How?
[b]
[/b]atheism |?????iz?m|
noun
the theory or belief that God does not exist.
Surely, atheism requires that others believe in a concept of God, in order to exist as a philosophy?
Christian art depicts God as a male Human figure
This is because "God created man in his own image". So if that comes from the infallible section of the bible god looks just like us.
Hopefully for his sake not too much like me. 😀
So if that comes from the infallible section of the bible god looks just like us.
FYI Genesis has god making us in [b]his[/b] own image 🙂
Surely, atheism requires that others believe in a concept of God, in order to exist as a philosophy?
the 'a' means 'without' - so without a theory of god
you can just make your own mind up about how to behave without worrying about jujus. I hasten to add that I have abandoned strict atheism as conventionally interpreted as too dogmatic, but in practice the difference is negligible
atheism is a belief like any religion.
if anything to be a committed atheist is nuts. why believe something that is as yet unprovable does not exist. much better to keep your options open. (got to admire the commitment though). which brings us nicely back to pascal's wager.
So if that comes from the infallible section of the bible god looks just like us.
FYI Genesis has god making us in his own image
which is what i quoted.
therefore we must look like him, & him like us.
if anything to be a committed atheist is nuts
well, I guess that's why I'm willing to accept any number of gods from zero to infinity and ignore them all equally
FYI Genesis has god making us in his own image
Which one of us in particular looks like Mr Beardy ?
which is which is what i quoted.
sorry, I misread you 🙂
SimonFBarnes should be committed if you ask me....
[i]atheism is a belief like any religion.[/i]
No it isn't, it's the ABSENCE of a belief.
which brings us nicely back to pascal's wager.
If your best reason for believing in god is pascal's wager then your faith must be very weak indeed.
we've established that believing in gods doesn't require one to be religious. Actually I'm inclined to think that [b]we[/b] are the gods.
No,
Atheism is the belief no deity exist. - it's a decision not an absence, unprovable and therefore a belief
Agnosticism is the view that it is unknowable.
Actually I'm inclined to think that we are the gods.
Sorry but there is no was I can accept that the universe is that messed up that human beings are gods! 😉
Atheism is the belief no deity exist. - it's a decision not an absence.
no, that's what religionists believe it is
That's an interesting one Simon.
Of course, it's entirely possible that we are, but we just need to develop. The Universe may be billions of years old, but maybe it takes zajillions until we as Humanity become mature Gods with the capability to destroy and create entire Worlds. Maybe we're just infant Gods and need to learn how to walk still...
Maybe everything that exists is God...
Maybe nothing exists at all, and I am God, and all this is merely the product of my imagination.
Who knows? I don't. Fun trying to find the answers though.
Sorry but there is no was I can accept that the universe is that messed up that human beings are gods!
the human beings could just be the manifestations we adopt, like a play but we've forgotten we're actors...
Now we're getting somewhere...
As for this thing of proving 'existence': Surely this is a Human construct, that something needs to 'exist' in an understandable form for it to be 'real'. What if God doesn't exist in a form that we can comprehend, yet does in other ways that we've yet to discover, if we ever will?
An absence would be if you have never heard of god or religion, oblivious to it's concept. This person is not called an atheist.
I'll agree it is commonly used to describe people that just don't decide either way. This is a misuse of the word from it's original Greek meaning.
EDIT: Greek is meant to say French.
What if God doesn't exist in a form that we can comprehend
I thought that was already a given ?
until we as Humanity become mature Gods with the capability to destroy and create entire Worlds. Maybe we're just infant Gods and need to learn how to walk still...
you're totally missing the point! We human animals are mostly gifted with empathy and a degree of mutual understanding so we can enjoy interacting and sharing with each other. Wealth, power, ability, status etc are just fatuous static in comparison
[i]Atheism is the belief no deity exist. - it's a decision not an absence, unprovable and therefore a belief[/i]
The actual Greek word is ????? (atheos) which translates as "without gods". In it's wider meaning atheism is the [b]absence of belief[/b] that any gods exist, there is a subtle difference to the [b]belief[/b] that no gods exist.
The benefits of a classical education! Ironically one that tried to force religion down my throat at every assembly...
you're totally missing the point!
Maybe[i] your[/i] point. This is my own idea. You're not the only one with ideas you know.
Maybe it's [i]you[/i] who's missing the point, eh?
but from the French athéisme where the English word came it would mean "one who denies or disbelieves the existence of God".
the greek meaning changed over time from the original "without gods" to have a meaning more inline with that of denying god exists.
Maybe it's you who's missing the point, eh?
oh well, if you want to go around being goddish and smiting stuff then feel free - I'll admit I'd thought my declaration was stating the bleeding obvious, but then I suppose for some, interaction is too much effort and they'd rather just get pissed 🙁 But yes, I stand corrected - if you can find anything better then do that instead!
Well given that it all started around religion
It didn't, it started around the fact that people had their land taken away.
Justifiable grievance, no?
Right, I'm confused now. If the bible now isn't the word of god then why do most christians put so much faith in it?
Because it may well CONTAIN the word of God. I don't see what the problem is here? It's like reading a newspaper. The events are there, but you have to read between the lines a bit, because the paper itself puts spin on it and selectively includes or leaves stuff out.
Funny, that Atheists need 'God' in order to be able to argue with others, and sell their books....
Very good post Fred except that I'm not selling a book 🙂
why believe something that is as yet unprovable does not exist
Just as valid as believing that it does.
As for hedging my bets, I'm confident that if I did meet the Christian god I could give a good account of myself.
maybe it takes zajillions until we as Humanity become mature Gods with the capability to destroy and create entire Worlds
Like Q off Star Trek?
What if God doesn't exist in a form that we can comprehend, yet does in other ways that we've yet to discover, if we ever will?
What if God IS the laws of Physics?
the greek meaning changed over time from the original "without gods" to have a meaning more inline with that of denying god exists.
but the word does not define the person or their philosophy, and non-believers in any and believers in none might both apply it to themselves, particularly when the outcome is similar...
Sorry I'm late, errrr...
I read nothing here that changes my mind.
I've nothing to add to what I've already said. 8)
S'ok Woppit; we've coped fine without you.
In fact, you were inconspicuous by your absence. 😀
I read nothing here that changes my mind.
nothing to be proud of. I would love to become a Christian - I would be able to marry the woman I love, however sadly I remain obdurately unconvinced 🙁
What if God IS the laws of Physics?
The laws of physics dont contain any energy or matter and therefore they dont exist. Ditto god