It isn't (much) more risky for you in the short term, that was kind of my point.
As a pandemic and for all of us in the long term however, it is much harder to control if hundreds of thousands of people are travelling around the world (or even around their country).
Sorry I just don't see it the same way. The main risk is people not follow clear guidance. If the guidance allows travel then it is acceptable. If people don't follow guidance then that's the issue. Regardless of it it regards travel or wearing a face mask in public. I would say the uptake on the current face mask rules is about 70%. Maybe less in small independent shops.
I can see it from both sides, but I do have to point out, the
guidance
is literally:
The Foreign & Commonwealth Office currently advises British nationals against all but essential international travel.
Accept to countries that are exempt.
As a pandemic and for all of us in the long term however, it is much harder to control if hundreds of thousands of people are travelling around the world (or even around their country).
I understand what you are saying, can I ask, do you believe the risk of spreading the virus when acting in accordance with guidelines (and general common sense with regard to cleanliness) and travelling to a less populated area of France in a car, is higher or lower than using a beach in the UK at present? It's a genuine question by the way, I'm not trying to disagree or prove an alternative point to yours.
I am torn between a trip to France that my wife is really keen to do, likely staying in an airbnb so able to cook and look after our own concerns much of the time against staying in the UK, whether we then go to a UK destination, or stay home isn't clear. The UK beaches look crazy and we visited a Norfolk beach recently, it was busy, but not horrendous as the South coast looks right now.
We can either live our lives and limit the impact we have or close down completely and hope it all blows over, I'm really not sure which we should do!
I think the moral of the story here is don't be a dick... you shouldn't really be going on jollies.
Unless you go to Greenland... that one was always a though nut to crack on the game Plague inc.
We made it into France and back last week. Before going we had to sign all-sorts of declarations for both directions, not one check in either direction.
It is said that the infection rate is climbing in France, it probably is, but I felt safer over there where everyone was wearing a mask in the shops etc. Even in the streets at busy times.
As soon as I returned and pulled into the services on the M20, only 50% of people were wearing masks. People were brushing by each other. I felt really uncomfortable.
I can see it from both sides, but I do have to point out, the
guidance
is literally:
The Foreign & Commonwealth Office currently advises British nationals against all but essential international travel.
Posted 15 minutes ago
Except for travel to the countries that are exempt from that "do not travel" advice
I had the same experience in Spain last week (family business, not holiday), quiet sleepy area, far from the more recent outbreaks in Catalonia and Madrid.. everyone wearing masks...ok not everyone maybe 1% not adhering, but they are handing out e100 on the spot fines, most shops and cafes have alcohol gel by the entrance too.
I really couldn't answer that. I could maybe guess that the France option carries a higher risk to those living there that you (or someone like you also doing the same thing there or somewhere similar) might bring the virus in via a petrol station, ferry terminal, shop etc on the way or if you have it already rather than you might catch it from them once there. The UK beach option probably carries a greater risk that you might catch the virus from someone else there who has travelled from a different part of the UK or abroad.
Either way the increased risk for you is probably marginally higher than staying local but the cumulative effect of everybody making the same decision is vastly increased transmission for all.
Yeah, but the risk is on all of us isn’t it.
Its amazing how selfish and stupid people can be – the more people travel, the more the virus spreads. the more the virus spreads the more people catch it. The more people catch it the more people die or get seriously ill. Planes, trains and automobiles, crossing continents, hopping back and forth across borders – you guys just knock yourself out and don’t worry – the situation is basically normal with masks.
Idiots.
Oh dear, I think someone needs a holiday!
I think the moral of the story here is don’t be a dick… you shouldn’t really be going on jollies.
In the UK and EU, or both?
Is it really that terrible to travel and keep to your own company for a week or so? I.e. will I come into more contact than I would were I to travel into London and go to a bar?
Just saw the post, cheers @winston. I understand where you are coming from.
Both looking at the crowded British beaches over the weekend! Why anyone would want to do that at any time, especially now, is confusing to me.
That’s it - quarantine for France from 4am Saturday
Glad we made the call back in May now. Wouldn’t want to do the quarantine thing on top of everything else.
Tinfoil hat...
it's the government's way of boosting the economy... More local spending.
So can I in theory drive through france from Calais to Germany/Italy and back again without having to Quarantine?
I think technically you can.
it’s the government’s way of boosting the economy… More local spending.
You give them too much credit.
More like they believe they are in a better position than France because their heads up their arse.
I'm working on the assumption that the UK is under testing to keep figures low, as from observation the UK population is taking distancing and mask wearing less seriously than places with disproportionately higher figures.
I’m working on the assumption that the UK is under testing to keep figures low, as from observation the UK population is taking distancing and mask wearing less seriously than places with disproportionately higher figures.
Maybe where you live, up here masks are pretty much 100%, distancing has relaxed a little, but still fairly good, surprisingly.
+1
I chatted to our colleagues in southern England and one in NI yesterday about this. The attitudes and self-awareness in difference in each home Nation, region and even between certain towns seems to be very different.
As Matt above, its different daily in some areas. We arrived in Pebbles on Friday after stop offs on the way up
The stop offs everyone was following the rules. The site on Friday was a big free for all and we thought we had made a big mistake and considered moving on.
Went into the forest on Saturday and when we got back it was like we were in a different area as all the new arrivals were following the rules which made the stay alot better.
Daughter is still in the Alps and not coming back early so she will be quarantined once home.
Both looking at the crowded British beaches over the weekend!
A mate is in Cornwall this week, posting up lovely pictures of quiet beaches and saying how good the social distancing has been, so I'm not sure which it is.
Being cynical, my FB friends seem to fall in to two main camps - those heading to pubs and busy town centres who moan about the lack of social distancing by all the people who are heading to pubs and busy town centres, and those seeking out quieter places where people are actively trying to social distance.
There's a smaller third group who I know have anxiety issues who focus entirely on the former group and are still just not going out unless they have to, which is understandable but it's really starting to become an issue for them, which is awful. Can't even tempt them out for a socially distanced walk or ride one to one.
I'm glad we made the decision back in April/May to postpone ours to 2021.
We should have been in Geneva today, heading to Lake Garda tomorrow.
Had we gone ahead my kids would have missed the first two weeks at school due to having to isolate.
Both looking at the crowded British beaches over the weekend!
Yeah, we found the British beaches crowded all last week. Don't believe the hype and just go somewhere less obvious.
Surely the key is staying away from honeypots & making sensible decisions?
We’ve just got back from sailing in Greece, and we were always ready to put the brakes on, but logic & data suggested we were being sensible.
Airports & flights were 100% mask compliant. We also paid extra to select seats where we had no direct contact with other pax, and boarded last. Airlines are disembarking 1 row at a time with everybody else staying seated. Again, communicated well and good compliance.
We were on our own boat, with distanced outdoor social life in the evenings with the rest of the flotilla. Greek shops require mask wearing - again good compliance.
All in all, it has wiped away most of the stress of the last 5 months, plus good for my kids to be out & about prior to school return.
Surely the key is staying away from honeypots & making sensible decisions?
I think that's the key - the word holiday can conjurer images of crowded high rise hotels and lager louts, my idea of hell even without a virus pandemic...
Surely the key is staying away from honeypots & making sensible decisions?
Yep. I'm not as refreshed as Danstw13 unfortunately but we just returned from a Mon-Friday break in Norfolk. Having seen what they've changed for a COVID / Family breaks I convinced Mrs K against her better judgement to go to Potters in Hopton on Sea, near Great Yarmouth. I'd been before for a lads weekend, so I knew it was a bit cheesy all inc (we wanted a rest so daily travelling and cooking was out), yet located near some really nice coastline and having lots of activities for the kids. She had "Butlins" pictured in her mind. 😀
Luckily the sun shined, we enjoyed several nice beaches full of ooh, about 5 people and returned for a 3 course dinner and some nightly entertainment. I have to say the resort was very well managed from a COVID perspective, the kids loved it and us adults were able to enjoy 7am runs along the coast (albeit not together) to work the wine off.
Hopefully back to Menorca next year, but maybe not having just read the WHO predictions...
4th post on the thread:
We rebooked our cycling trip to mallorca at Easter to October half term. Not that optimistic tbh.
Todays email:
We’re sorry, but due to the ongoing uncertainty caused by the COVID-19 pandemic and the latest government travel advice, your holiday is no longer going ahead
Arse.
Small victories.
Decided we weren't going to Ibiza last month, cancelled the hotel. Wife wants to rearrange the flights at a cost of £35 per person. No says I, we'll wait as Jet2 will cancel them first for free. And today they did.
Winning.
I've postponed our holiday to Lake Garda to Aug-21, but i'm not convinced we'll be in a much different place with COVID-19 this time next year.
The only way out of this situation is an effective vaccine, which the sensible people (Chris Witty - not Trump) are saying is probably 12+ months away.
Friends who work in London are being told to carry on with the WFH until after Christmas at the earliest.
I don't think this bodes well for 2021 holidays, especially if Quarantine for 2 weeks is going to cause issues.
It's not boding well for the ski season. I can give or take summer holidays, but I do like our skiing and boarding trips. What a pisser!
i’m not convinced we’ll be in a much different place with COVID-19 this time next year.
Possibly for a different thread, but whilst I agree, I also think that peoples tolerance levels to the restrictions, particularly if the death rate (note, not the infection rate) stays low will be such that there will be real pressure to remove them entirely.
People will suck up this year, but next year they will go, and they'll be heavily incentivised by struggling Mediterranean countries I suspect.
It’s not boding well for the ski season. I can give or take summer holidays, but I do like our skiing and boarding trips. What a pisser!
I am the other way around - I can ride my bike, run, go to the gym or whatever activity I want at any time but I love having two weeks soaking up the sun and drinking beer with little or no guilt.
I think that’s the key – the word holiday can conjurer images of crowded high rise hotels and lager louts, my idea of hell even without a virus pandemic…
Yep, we came back from France after staying with friends in a tiny village in the foothills of the Pyrenees. Just went riding up the Cols in our own little bubble. Was very easy to stay isolated - eg didn't have to go into any petrol stations, just paid with card at pump etc.
I was of the opinion back in April that I personally wouldn't bother looking at an overseas holiday until Nov/Dec at the earliest, if you want to go abroad you have to take the risk that you'll probably have to quarantine for 2 weeks after.
I won't be looking to go abroad until late winter, Feb/March at the very earliest.
It’s not boding well for the ski season
I refuse to acknowledge this statement, I missed one ski trip this year I really don't want to miss out altogether next year. My new jacket will be 2 seasons out of date for flips sake!
Seriously though, I really don't want this to mean I don't get to the mountains next winter.
if you want to go abroad you have to take the risk that you’ll probably have to quarantine for 2 weeks after.
If you're already WFH then this is pretty much carry on as usual.....
If you’re already WFH then this is pretty much carry on as usual….
Except for going out to shops, restaurants, seeing friends the sort of stuff we are allowed to do now at least.
Except for going out to shops, restaurants, seeing friends the sort of stuff we are allowed to do now at least.
Given its completely unenforced, just do as you see fit....
We came back through Eurotunnel yesterday afternoon.... the terminal at Calais was ghostly quiet. Very few cars.
Switzerland now on the UK quarantine list. A week after ScotGov added it.
Just sayin'
A week after ScotGov added it.
There was a news article somewhere I read the other day, whereby this is a startling re-occuring theme from UK parliament if you go back ward in time.
Except for going out to shops, restaurants, seeing friends the sort of stuff we are allowed to do now at least.
And shopping, exercising, in fact no leaving the house or garden, other than 'exceptional circumstances'.
Seems people you live with if they didn't travel with you, don't need to quarantine, but that's assuming you can separate yourselves fully.
The people you’re staying with do not need to stay at home, unless they travelled with you.
It’s important to avoid as much contact with other people as possible in your home in order to reduce the risk of transmitting coronavirus. You should stay in a well-ventilated room with a window to the outside that can be opened, separate from other people in your home.
