Rays of sunshine. (Apple content).

Rather than replace my iPhone XS battery I think I’ll order the new iPhone SE, it’d be handy to have the usb c port so I can plug in directly for my dongle dac/amps for my headphones/iems, if the price is ok that is

I'm still using a 2016 iPhone SE. mostly for being, you know, a phone, the odd Whatsapp, Strava for shorter local walks and checking e-mail on the move. Oh, and finding out what the time is. I like it because it's compact and just works. In honesty, the whole fetishisation of technological 'progress' combined with the relentless growth in phone size does my head in. 

I know this is how capitalism/consumerism works, but it would be nice if Apple could produce a genuinely compact, relatively utilitarian phone for people who habitually use their stuff, but want a device that doesn't need a map-sized pocket to hold it. Every time there's a new SE it's bigger, heavier and more complicated. My old SE sits nicely in a jersey pocket and I'm not looking forward to the day when it becomes unusable.

I don't need or want a £1000 phone which is the size of an iPad Mini and uses AI to compose stilted, semi-formal e-mails for me. I'm not really a proper Apple person I guess. Sigh. Modern life is rubbish.

A new iMac with a decent sized screen would be nice. The drop to 24" was baffling.

@BadlyWiredDog The problem is that smaller phones don’t sell. I’ve got a 13 mini which is a really nice size, but when the time comes to replace it’ll have to be a bigger one because they don’t make mini phones any more.

I really like the 13 mini too - great handset for the smaller hands of my mini-a11ys and not too bad buying them secondhand/reconditioned. I'm still on an 11 Pro and occasionally find the screen size a bit of a stretch and wouldn't want bigger, but other times I'm grateful for the big screen.

I know they will not make it as it it will like restricting their own business, but I wish they would make MacBooks and iPads that utilise the available processing power of your phone. I have an iPhone 16, more than enough computing there to do everything I need, but I have a MacBook for when working on documents or just need a bigger screen. It seems daft that I need a separate device. I would happily use a MacBook lite which was just battery, keyboard and screen but piggybacks on processors and other computery stuff already contained within my phone.   

Posted by: ratherbeintobago

↑

The problem is that smaller phones don’t sell. I’ve got a 13 mini which is a really nice size, but when the time comes to replace it’ll have to be a bigger one because they don’t make mini phones any more.

Yeah, I get that, it just seems a shame that we're locked into a technology doom spiral of ever increasing size, cost and complexity because the market demands a phone that's basically a small computer. But hey, that's why I have an iPad, I don't really need a phone that's almost the same size and does pretty much the same thing.

Logically everything should converge into a single device - as per @franksinatra above - to save resources, money and brain cells, but we all know that's never going to happen despite the iPad Pro and the welcome miniaturisation of the latest, trend-bucking, Mac Mini.

I know the answer is some sort of non-apple phone, but I do like the integration of the whole Mac ecosystem. Grumble, grouch, whine etc.

I'm on a 12 mini so I've still got one more mini upgrade available. I find it quite astonishing that there doesn't seem to be a big enough market to accommodate small phones.

Posted by: ratherbeintobago

↑

@BadlyWiredDog The problem is that smaller phones don’t sell. I’ve got a 13 mini which is a really nice size, but when the time comes to replace it’ll have to be a bigger one because they don’t make mini phones any more.

I'm another who wants a smaller phone. It's the reason I have an SE instead of one of the fancier models, and even then I think it's too big so I tend to leave it lying around instead of carrying it with me all the tine - which is what I did with the old generation of phones.

12 mini here as well. It looks as if another pocket Apple phone is never coming. A shame.

Is a standard iPhone really that big?

They feel quite small compared to some of Samsungs offerings.

having used android, I bought the 13 mini when it was reasonably new. It does everything I need and I don't need anything bigger

Posted by: the-muffin-man

↑

Is a standard iPhone really that big?

I have the 12 and will soon be upgrading to a 16. Bigger than the original SE (which I loved!) but more compact than a lot of the alternatives surely.

I never wanted a Max-sized iPhone when they were first available, as I thought it'd be too big. But then I got one when it was the only option to have the better camera/zoom, and guess what? It was fine. Get over yourselves 🙂 If you genuinely can't fit it in your pocket, stop borrowing your wife's trousers.

I'm with you on the cost argument, but that's why the SE exists. The size is fine. Bigger phones are actually much more usable (I barely ever bother using my iPad since getting a Pro Max!)

I'm also in the camp of wanting a smaller iphone. Went from a SE 2  to (a hand me down) 13 and find it more difficult to carry around. I used to use the SE 2 for safety when kayaking, carried in a waterproof pouch in my buoyancy aid.  The 13 doesn't fit and needs to go in a hatch.

Brother also recently went to a 13 mini as that seems to have been the last/most recent of the smaller size Apple options. Various  people on this thread would indicate there is a market for 'mini' Apple phones. 

I was in the want a smaller phone camp and had both previous SE models but recently got the latest SE.  Have to say I actually like it more and the bigger screen is nicer - don't find it feels much different in the pocket plus it still fits in the zip up pocket of my Rapha jerseys.

I know this is how capitalism/consumerism works, but it would be nice if Apple could produce a genuinely compact, relatively utilitarian phone for people who habitually use their stuff, but want a device that doesn't need a map-sized pocket to hold it.

I found it amusing that while trends in trouser were getting tighter and tigher phone were getting larger and larger. So that their owners could admire their massive, super definition retina displays through habitually smashed glass.

So now that trousers are getting baggier again we should be due some sensibly sized phones too

Is a standard iPhone really that big?

They feel quite small compared to some of Samsungs offerings.

The standard phones aren't too big at all

I think in reality there's a reason why smaller phone tend not to sell well, even though theres a certain curmudgeonly generation who still yearns for them.

Pre smart phones the advance being made was to make pretty much the same phone, functionally, ever more compact and light. So for a certain generation smallness is still seen as something to value. For the purpose of making a call or sending a short message that was fine. But getting smaller did start to impact functionality as to accommodate a readable screen on a tiny phone meant having uselessly fiddly, awkwardly positioned keys.

So in the early days of smart phones there was still a consumer driven target for smallness - (but in fact there was also a manufacturer benefit for smallness in that larger screens require more processor and battery power.)

In reality though small smart phones are pretty limiting for the user, and in practice the size actually hardly matters. Slimness helps but a small screen sizes doesn't really make a phone any easier to carry. Your phone goes in your your pocket, your pocket is at least big enough to put your hand in so you're not going to actually notice the difference carrying either

So while there are examples of phones that are too big, whats now a normal size phones carries no practical penalty in portability terms over little 4s or 5SE - but its much easier to see and use.

I have a14, it definitely fits in my pocket !

I'd guess that franksinatra's concept will eventually arrive. There's little incentive for Apple or other big companies to create it =- they're much better off if they can sell you four or five separate devices.

However, if independent start-ups begin to make laptops/tablets/desktops that use a phone as the engine I'd expect them to be a success if they are good enough and cheap enough. In that case the phone makers would possibly join in and make their own versions as they need to grab their profits from all available pies. As said earlier, the idea makes a lot of sense for many people.

I wouldn't expect it to happen soon, but phones are so central to the lives of millennials and Gen Zers it seems inevitable to me, in the same way that I now use my phone to watch films on my big tv.

As we are on STW, the place that has knowledge about all subjects, can anyone suggest ways that we could begin doing this? What would be the best way to plug my phone into an old laptop and use the phone's capabilities?

Posted by: MacCruiskeen

↑

I think in reality there's a reason why smaller phone tend not to sell well, even though theres a certain curmudgeonly generation who still yearns for them.

Posted by: the-muffin-man

↑

Is a standard iPhone really that big?

I think it probably depends how you use it. As I mostly don't wonder around with my nose buried in my phone and spend hours finessing pics my socials, I'd prefer my phone to be small rather than have a huge screen. I also use some sort of armoured/waterproof case, which means that any phone I carry is slightly larger than it's un-cased form, but more resistant to water / being crashed on. 

I know how big current iPhones are, the missus has had a succession of work ones, and for my purposes, they're basically slightly too big.

Posted by: MacCruiskeen

↑

I think in reality there's a reason why smaller phone tend not to sell well, even though theres a certain curmudgeonly generation who still yearns for them.

 

I'm not sure 'curmudgeonly' means what you think, which is 'bad tempered'. Luddite or inflexible or traditional maybe. But actually for me it's just about having a phone that takes up less space even with a case on. YMMV and that's fine.   

it would be nice if Apple could produce a genuinely compact, relatively utilitarian phone for people who habitually use their stuff, but want a device that doesn't need a map-sized pocket to hold it.

Apple are never going to produce a "relatively utilitarian" phone - their market is premium phones. If you want something simple you need to go Android. Not that you'll find it easy to get a smaller phone there, either - there are some, but as most people above have pointed out there's apparently no market for them.

About the best you'll get is (presumably) the new SE, or the 16 Pro (6.2" screen, so by current standards relatively small), or if you prefer Android the S25 (also 6.2"). FWIW I've got the 16 Pro, and it fits fine in my front jeans pocket. 

I have an iPhone 16, more than enough computing there to do everything I need, but I have a MacBook for when working on documents or just need a bigger screen. It seems daft that I need a separate device. I would happily use a MacBook lite which was just battery, keyboard and screen but piggybacks on processors and other computery stuff already contained within my phone.   

I think the latest iPhones can drive an external screen. They can certainly take an external keyboard. So i guess we must be close to some be making what you want.

Currently the product you describe is an iPad and key board

I think in reality there's a reason why smaller phone tend not to sell well

Probably the same reason there are so many 2 tonne cars on the road.

I'd guess that franksinatra's concept will eventually arrive. There's little incentive for Apple or other big companies to create it =- they're much better off if they can sell you four or five separate devices.

you can do this right now, can't you? As in, it's possible to connect an iPhone to an external monitor, mouse and keyboard, and do word processing or whatever you want. Obviously would be pretty clunky as the UI is not designed with this in mind. 

I think it probably depends how you use it. As I mostly don't wonder around with my nose buried in my phone and spend hours finessing pics my socials, I'd prefer my phone to be small rather than have a huge screen.

It's a you problem. That 'huge' screen is useful for reading web pages, maps, news, accessing Strava, reading guitar tabs, all the things that a mini-computer can be used for while still fitting in a normal trouser pocket. And, of course, half of the people who complain about phones being too big can't actually read the screens because they've left their reading glasses in the car. 😀

wandering off topic here.... but an interesting feature of the new forum.

There was period of time when people who created accounts didn't have any capitalisation when their forum name is displayed.

So when I created my account the user name I entered was 'MacCruiskeen' but it has always displayed as 'maccruiskeen' - although it seems to have always latently have retained its capitalisation somewhere - I think if I posted a comment on the front page for instance it would sometimes capitalise.

I think this is the first time I've been quoted on the new forum and its interesting that I still display all lower case on my own posts but have capitalisation when I'm quoted.

anyway

I also use some sort of armoured/waterproof case, which means that any phone I carry is slightly larger

Cases make phones bulkier - but the main impact in your pocket really is in thickness, which is the same for any size phone if you add a case. Being a bit taller or wider doesn't really matter.

Posted by: easily

↑

However, if independent start-ups begin to make laptops/tablets/desktops that use a phone as the engine I'd expect them to be a success if they are good enough and cheap enough. In that case the phone makers would possibly join in and make their own versions as they need to grab their profits from all available pies. As said earlier, the idea makes a lot of sense for many people.

I'm not sure if theres really milage in this - often people are multi-screen users and will often use their laptop/desktop for one purpose and their phone for another - either as a work / leisure divide or just to have more than one channel of communication. I'm often in zoom meetings where theres a second conversation going on by text with other people in the meeting for instance 

Even TV / Streaming channels have now come to recognise that they are making programmes for 'the second screen' and that the programmes they make have to share viewers attention with other screens. So although theoretically a phone could be the engine for laptop I don't think people would broadly adopt the idea of using one for both - people have a phone and a laptop and often use them at the same time for different things and, I think, treat them as different 'spaces'.

I'm not sure if theres really milage in this

there's zero mileage in it. For the reason you suggest, and also economies of scale - even if a startup did start selling a "dumb terminal" it's still cost way more than a cheap, complete laptop from a massive manufacturer eg. Lenovo. And probably a whole host of other reasons too!

@franksinatra - that already exists.

A modern Samsung phone can plug into a dock connected to keyboard, mouse, monitor etc and basically becomes a full6 fledged Chromebook.

My iPad can do the same, either mirroring the screen or extending it to a complete separate desktop via stage manager.
I don’t know if the latest iPhones can also do this, my iPhone is a 13 so probably not representative of the newer models but 2 mins on google would confirm that one way or another 

@badlywireddog

You’re still using a 2016 iPhone SE?

surely the security updates for strava and email will have fizzled out a few years ago?

Maybe Apple will release an even larger watch, just for those who still hanker for compact iPhones 😂😂😂

Crikey…satellite calls in an emergency 

Posted by: greatbeardedone

↑

Crikey…satellite calls in an emergency 

Think thats already a thing with some of the current iPhones (iPhone 14 onwards)  - for instance if you're a Greenflag customer their app for iPhone lets you contact them via satellite if you breakdown somewhere out of signal 

Good responses to my post, I hadn't really thought my idea through, and indeed use my phone and laptop as highlighted by other posters.

I was imagining a future where dumb laptops (screen, keyboard, mouse)  are available everywhere - at work, at home, at school, in your car, in your room when you're at a hotel, at caffs ... everywhere - and you could just plug your phone in as you sat down and begin to type/browse/watch.

Probably a non-starter, it just seems quite cool in a science fictiony sort of way. I guess it's more likely that we'll have Westworld-style expanding devices, so won't miss the monitors or screen space.

Posted by: easily

↑

I was imagining a future where dumb laptops (screen, keyboard, mouse)  are available everywhere - at work, at home, at school, in your car, in your room when you're at a hotel, at caffs ... everywhere - and you could just plug your phone in as you sat down and begin to type/browse/watch.

to that end theres not really any need to have the phone even - given that all the computing, apps and data can (and often are) 'cloud' based the only thing you actually would need to carry around is a login. That was sort of the point of the cloud in the first place that the computing would be centralised and the hardware would be 'dumb'. But seemingly what we've done instead is having increasingly high spec devices, with oodles of processing power and storage, which often can't fulfil their tasks if theyre not cloud connected.

Re the ‘carry around a phone and just plug it in to a dumb screen wherever’ or ‘just carry around a login’ - both of those exist right now.

in the right place I can plug a device (phone or laptop in) and connect to a dock driven screen etc which is exactly what I do in my works offices. The laptop only gets interact3d with as a second monitor so could easily be shrunk. 

i can also just log in to any computer and use the web based outlook365 etc apps and work that way.  It’s a little more clunky but useable. My resonant stuff would all be available too. So any internet cafe, library, hotel “business centre” computer etc is all fair game.

so it’s not a tech capability issue, more one of consumer choice,  there aren’t many internet cafes etc these days, presumably because people choose not to use them. Including me - despite being able to work off then cloud I much prefer my own devices when available. 

There were a couple of videos on YouTube of some bloke connecting his mouse, keyboard, and monitor to his iPhone to edit videos.

£600 for 128gb se?,  nah no thanks, I’m not interested in ai guff as I would switch it off, not fussed about camera as I only use my iPhone XS camera for sale pics. I would like a usb c port but I can do without.

Ill live with my XS for the next few years. 

Can't see the new SE convincing many people moving from Android to iOS - it seems very overpriced with a single camera and no magsafe.

Posted by: mogrim

↑

FWIW I've got the 16 Pro, and it fits fine in my front jeans pocket. 

W

Posted by: greatbeardedone

↑

You’re still using a 2016 iPhone SE?

surely the security updates for strava and email will have fizzled out a few years ago

This year I think. Hence my interest in finding something comparable to replace it. 

I'm enjoying all the gaslighting about how 'not large' current iPhones are. It feels like a frog being boiled alive, with phone size sneaking ever upwards. Eventually folk will be spouting stuff about how the new iPhone is only slightly larger than last year's and hey, it can fitted in a typical car boot, no problem at all... 

Joking aside though, some of the issue for me is that my phone gets used outside, a lot, on bikes, walking, backpacking etc, so I use a pretty robust case which means that phones which are just about okay without protection, then get a fair bit larger when you put them in a case. 

Joking aside though, some of the issue for me is that my phone gets used outside, a lot, on bikes, walking, backpacking etc

so does mine. Why do you think yours needs anything more than a screen protector + basic "bumper" style case?