[Closed] Racism in Golf

Only Rupert the Bear lookalikes need apply.....

Both comments were made by Europeans, but have much stronger racial overtones in America (I don't fully understand the fried chicken one). Stupid and insensitive defiantly, but more is being made of it than necessary.

The least Sergio could do is serve rice and peas with the fried chicken 😀

been of a certain, but not great age i remember it being wrong to call people black, correct to call them coloured and now in recent years specifically detailling skin tone /colour has become the accepted behavoiur.

so when some one of my age uses the currently inappropriate description i have some sympathy, its not as if we receive monthly updates from the powers that be..

its not as if we receive monthly updates from the powers that be.

The powers that be???? Do you think a little common decency and understanding of racism is being force upon you by some megalomaniac in a government department?

I'm glad you posted this, cos I was going to.

a) What the hell's up with the "fried chicken" comment, is that a cultural thing I've missed?

b) We've discussed this before, but is the "coloured" comment perhaps not just innocent use of a non-PC term? I've used it before in a naive attempt to avoid racially-loaded words (exactly as totalshell describes), and was shocked to hear it was frowned upon; also, the chap in question was supposed to be apologising for the previous comment so it seems mental that he'd be intentionally racist.

Not sure it's a guvmint department MSP. I'm sure it's some kind of Brigade type outfit isn't it?

Do you think a little common decency and understanding of racism is being force upon you by some megalomaniac in a government department?

No, but I think what words are / aren't considered '-ist' change quickly. Context is everything; never mind the word, what was the intent? Just because the listener takes offence doesn't inherently make it an offensive word.

a) What the hell's up with the "fried chicken" comment, is that a cultural thing I've missed?

A food associated with black people in America I believe Cougar. Can have racial undertones (or is it "overtones"?) when used in certain parlance.

Ah, ok. I guessed that it was some sort of crack at menial work; a similar slur here , albeit not inherently racist, might be "would you like fries with that?" Makes sense.

Tangenting, where does that leave Gus in Breaking Bad?

I wonder if there would have been the same fuss if Woods had suggested they have Paella.

Haven't got round to Breaking Bad yet. Getting there. And I've reported your post for thread derailment. You can expect an email from a mod putting you on a thread replacement service. You can expect a 40 minute delay. 🙂

I wonder if there would have been the same fuss if Woods had suggested they have Paella.

Probably not, no.

Coloured definitely was the pc term.

Being not racist and not paying attention to what is racist could make you seem racist to racism obsessed not racists.

there's a really fine and rather stupid line here that has been crossed.
the food he commented on is stereotypically eaten by a particular race and therefore to assume someone of that race should like to eat it could be deemed racist.
if you suggested someone of a particular nationality would like to eat a particular food then that would not be racist, or even seen as that bad would it?
if you were an alien and learning about the planet, would this make any sense?

if you were an alien and learning about the planet, would this make any sense?

Probably not, no.

In my experience (very limited in real life tbh) black people do quite like fried chicken. The three black people that I know reasonably well bloody love it. Make of that what you will.

It's maybe slightly stereotyping but I struggle to see how its offensive. I can see with the history of racism it's a bit different to suggesting British people like cups of tea or fish and chips, but only slightly.

It is a steriotype that black folk like fried chicken. All stereotypes have a basis in truth and in my experience this one is true. For instance look at Usain Bolt all he ate in China was fried chicken, he won a gold medal on fried chicken.

Would there be the same uproar if he had said he was going to serve an English bloke a roast dinner? Its exactly the same thing!

Ha ha high five grum.

Would there be the same uproar if he had said he was going to serve an English bloke a roast dinner?

Probably not, no.

Haven't got round to Breaking Bad yet.

You really should, it's ace.

Will Deadlydarcy answer with anything other than "Probably not, no"?

I wonder if there would have been the same fuss if Woods had suggested they have Paella.

As for the guy apologising for the one who said it I would send someone who actually could and knew WTF they were talking about

* Chicken dishes were popular among slaves before the Civil War, as chickens were generally the only animals slaves could raise on their own. It is generally used in a derigatory way from what little I have gleamed

Coloured, what the hell is that supposed to mean anyway. That I'm translucent?

I haven't been in Scotland that long.

Probably not, no.

Coloured, what the hell is that supposed to mean anyway. That I'm translucent?

No or we'd be saying opaque.

Will Deadlydarcy answer with anything other than "Probably not, no"?

Resisting the obvious answer...

It was a fairly accurate answer to the three questions. In fact more accurate would be to say, "Not at all" for the reasons JY stated. Paellas and roast dinners don't have racial undertones. "Fried chicken" does. Which is unfortunate for folk who want to use the term in a derogatory fashion.

You see I just see it as the same, sterotyping in the "it's what they all eat." Don't really see it as racist.

The fried chicken thing (specific to Tiger) relates to comments made by a guy (comically) called Fuzzy Zeoller who, upon Tiger wining first Masters, commented that he'd better not serve fried chicken and greens at the champions dinner the next year...

So, Irish = spudmuncher in Dracworld?

Not heard of that one before.

Who doesn't like fried chicken? Am I black and just didn't realise?

Well as **** is just short for ****stanian and Scot is just short for Scottish I can use them both as that is what they mean?

You can say they are just the same if you like but you need to ignore what they mean to do this with the example above and fried chicken/paella tbh.

“So you know what you guys do when he gets in here?” Zoeller said to reporters, referring to the following year’s Champions Dinner. “Pat him on the back, say congratulations, enjoy it. And tell him not to serve fried chicken next year — or collared greens or whatever the hell they serve.”

The irony is that the NAACP (National Association for the Advancement of [b]Colored[/b] People) once accused Woods of being racist for his choice of only white partners. If a leading rights organisation has not got around to loosing the "coloured" from their title it can't be that bad can it? Can't say I would ever think of using it though.

Well as **** is just short for ****stanian and Scot is just short for Scottish I can use them both.

If you say so then yeah you go ahead.

Would there be the same uproar if he had said he was going to serve an English bloke a roast dinner? Its exactly the same thing!

No, it's probably not

😀

Stop stealing my answer CM!

If you say so then yeah you go ahead.

Pretty sure my full quote made it obvious what I thought but thanks for the miss quote and non answer

Pretty sure my full quote made it obvious what I thought

No, it probably didn't

Pretty sure my full quote made it obvious what I thought but thanks for the miss quote and non answer

Thanks for twisting what I said.

😯

🙄

Not arguing with a mod but really

This

A food associated with black people in America I believe Cougar. Can have racial undertones (or is it "overtones"?) when used in certain parlance.

I think the parties involved are making way too much ado about it. Everything has to be so flippin' PC these days---good lord we don't want to offend anyone. 😆

I worked in Human Resources for years and way back when I started the PC term was black, then it changed to African Americans. Same with Spanish/Mexican people--first it was Mexican, then Latino/Latina and now it seems to be Hispanic or Latin American--no matter which you use, someone will be offended in some way. As someone posted above, the NAACP uses the word "colored" in their title, but heaven help you if you refer to someone as colored here.

FWIW, I'm not African American and I love fried chicken.

I'm pleased...for once I find myself on the PC side of the STW moral compass. Reference to 'fried chicken' is about as straight up racial slur as I could think of....nothing less.

He knew what he was saying, it was meant to be racially derogatory.

CharlieMungus - Member
Would there be the same uproar if he had said he was going to serve an English bloke a roast dinner? Its exactly the same thing!

No, it's probably not

It is but anyway how about saying that the Scottish deep fry everything. Its a stereotype that has a basis in truth but it is no more racist for a black person to say it than it is for me to say it. I am white and half Scottish fwiw.

As an aside is it racist to say that an Indian chap likes curry?

Its a joke about food can't people get over it? Why does everything have to have racist/sexist/xenophobic undertones that involve people getting their knickers in a twist in some sort of sympathy offence.

Fried chicken is a food historically associated with poverty, The Deep South and slavery and is now used as an abusive negative stereotype by some people about black people and that’s why it’s racist. Basically it comes down to the context it was used in. As for the use of the terms coloured or black it depends who you’re talking to. I know my Black friends don’t really favour the term coloured but aren’t be overly offended by its use. The vast majority of Black people are proud to be Black and therefore prefer to be labelled black if labelling is necessary. My friends understand the minefield of being PC well.

I'm not African American and I love fried chicken

Typical liberal.

Exactly how I see it I_Ache it's about sterotyping food and not calling people by derogatory terms like JY suggested.

It is

A few excellent explanations of why it's probably not already.

manciman +1.

Its all about context.

As an aside, i was out with a black friend on friday who loves fried chicken. (bistro live, we were out of our depth....) whereas another black friend far prefers mediterranean food, but wears gayass cowboy fashion.....
No offence intended.

I can see why it's not nice to make reference to someone's race when you clearly don't like them and are probably trying to insult them, but as above I struggle to see where the slur is in suggesting black people like fried chicken.

Seems like a massive storm in a teacup to me. If the reference was to a negative stereotype about black people it would be totally different - or is liking fried chicken seen as negative? I suppose it could be.

Not a big fan of fried chicken BTW, and totes white. Maybe that makes me racist. 🙂

Typical liberal.

Of course you don't know me, but that label couldn't be farther off the mark.

I never thought of fried chicken in the PC "label" terms---I grew up on a ranch and had it all the time.

[s]

Coincidentally this week or because of the events in London? Serious question, how would they know? Would someone have to report it do you think? Or are they "watching"?

I never thought of fried chicken in the PC "label" terms---I grew up on a ranch and had it all the time.

I'd thought you'd eat T-bones the size of small child all the time on a ranch.

the T-bones were every third day between the chicken and the pork chops 😆

Knew it.

LOL at Drac's copy and paste powerz! 😀

Hahaha I use keyboard shortcuts so if I hit the wrong key it doesn't copy.

I use keyboard shortcuts

I have tried for years to get proficient with keyboard shortcuts without much success---something about teaching old dogs new tricks I guess

The more you use them the easier it is but as you can see also easy to mess them up.

Why does everything have to have racist/sexist/xenophobic undertones that involve people getting their knickers in a twist in some sort of sympathy offence.

Exactly how I see it I_Ache it's about stereotyping food and not calling people by derogatory terms

I have tried for years to get proficient with keyboard shortcuts without much success

Greasy fingers.

For instance look at Usain Bolt all he ate in China was fried chicken, he won a gold medal on fried chicken.

Well.

He ate McDonald's Chicken Nuggets. So not really the same thing at all. 🙂

And he is Jamaican. Not African American.

😀

Is golf any more racist that the society around it - no

Woods and Garcia have long standing fued. This is fuelled in recent event when playing together in last round. Garcia upset by Woods' behaviour. In later interview, Garcia makes attempt to calm things saying sensibly that he might invite Woods round for supper then inadvisedly that he would serve fried chicken. Note he is Spanish and they have different slant on things! When error in choice of meal was pointed out, he apologises for any offence caused. Racist intent - hardly!

Then tour official is caught off guard in interview and inadvisedly again uses the term coloured. Perhaps he spends too much time in S Africa or with S Africans, who knows? Quickly apologies for any offence caused. Racist intent - again hardly!

So two poor choices of words (one in the midst of row) followed by quick apologies. Use the term coloured in SA and no one blinks, but we see fit to make major issues out of it in US and europe. Blowing these things out of proportion does little to address real and intended racism which is the real scourge that needs outing. Not slips like these IMO.

I agree with Grum, two storms in teacups.

In later interview, Garcia makes attempt to calm things saying sensibly that he might invite Woods round for supper then inadvisedly that he would serve fried chicken. Note he is Spanish and they have different slant on things!

He may be Spanish but he has spent mot of his playing career on the US circuit? It's not like he's only just stepped off the plane and eaten nothing but paella all his life. So he would be more familiar with the the undertones contained in the phrase "fried chicken" (when used in certain parlance) would he not?

error in choice of meal was pointed out

That's a fairly euphemistic way of describing something that Tigger said was "wrong, hurtful and clearly inappropriate". (I also note that Tigger doesn't mention the "r" word - because he probably knows the shitstorm it will kick up if he does, but I'm only guessing there.)

Use the term coloured in SA and no one blinks

Whenever we do the coloured/black thing here, I see this one rolled out. I have no idea why.

"Coloured" was an official racial classification under Apartheid, it doesn't mean black. Therefore the terms coloured and black are not interchangeable in S.A. as they are in other English speaking parts of the world. I'm surprised you didn't know that teamhurtmore. Although you quite possibly did.

But look on the bright side... Didn't cost the British taxpayer anything.

Had this storm in a can of Red Stripe (the blacks' favourite drink) happened in Britain the police would have been involved to investigate a racial incident.

Remember the Big Brother/Jade Goody/Shilpa poppadum bo!!ocks? Another waste of police time.

Garcia knew exactly what he was saying, I know bugger all about golf but I know the fried chicken slur had been used about Tiger previously by Fuzzy something or other. he said something about serving Fried Chicken at the post Masters banquet. There was a massive furore at the time.

Ok, this has gone on long enough.

What we need is a database, which obviously the Internet provides http://www.rsdb.org/full

However, this database doesn't doesn't determine the severity of the 'slur' perhaps we should initiate a voting system in order to determine the level of offence.

eg. Two right next to each other with different levels if offensiveness.

Limey and Lincoln's mistake

I see a certain Star Wars character has made the list.

Exactly how I see it I_Ache it's about sterotyping food and not calling people by derogatory terms like JY suggested.

Perhaps, but you have already demonstrated previously that you may not be the best person to evalute what is and is not racist when it comes to references to food.

Lobsterback, actually that's quite good. Still pertinent the second temperatures get over 25 Celsius. Albeit for different reasons.

Seem to be remember being told by he locals in Luz St Saveur that the Brits are sometimes called lobsters because of our tendency to burn ourselves when on holiday.

I am aware of that Ernie, thanks! I am in SA regularly and find it far more sensible that, particularly in a country with its history, obvious and common sense adjectives like black, white and coloured can still be used without fear or prejudice. Better than the convoluted nonsense that we find in US and UK. FWIW, I used to find it hard to use the term black for fear of being rude/racist, but this is not an issue with any of my colleagues/friends. Perhaps we could all benefit from their perspective and common sense?

Woods and Garcia hate each other. They had another recent bust up when Garcia claims the Woods (Tiger not Tigger BTW - unless that was a Garciaesque mistake!) deliberately got the crowd going just as he was about to hit the shot. Yes, credit to Woods for not using the "r" word (if that is the case). Garcia made an error, he makes loads as he is a bit of a prat at the best of times. Who knows if it was deliberate? Does it really matter in the grander scheme of things. There is far more serious racism to tackle more importantly.

ironically when Tiger was first dominating the scene he was often described as black - first black to win this and that. Encouraging black golfers to take up the game etc. When as we know he is of mixed race. Was it racist to call him a black golfer? Does it matter, when like here there was little intent - at least in the second case?

Talking of teacups, time for a cuppa myself now!

Drugs in Golf ??

Yes it's pro sport with lots of money.

Perhaps, but you have already demonstrated previously that you may not be the best person to evalute what is and is not racist when it comes to references to food.

Yeah whatever we've discussed that already and I still standby my opinions I'm not sure why you feel to mention that whenever you can. Really all it is your opinion and a one that you love to mention when ever you can.

common sense adjectives like black, white and coloured can still be used without fear or prejudice.

If you wish to reclaim coloured or ****, like say gay has been reclaimed, then fair enough. However at this moment in time coloured should be avoided as should **** and the n word..is this not common sense as well as courtesy?
they are not just common sense adjectives they are also hurtful slurs

Obviously not everyone who uses them is a racist some are just ignorant and if corrected apologise and dont use it again for you dont wish to offend or be seen to be racist
I knew nothing of the fried chicken thing till this thread and now will be careful in the future - not exactly hard to do tbh.
I wont carry on arguing it is just a food dish and it does not mean what it means to black people in the USA

Common sense and courtesy - 100% agree, which is why Garcia was, as often, an idiot. It may have been intended or it may have been a failure to engage his brain before opening his mouth. That would not have been the first time.

Context does make a difference - Pak/**** is used in the Indian sub-continent (newspaper headlines) in a different way to how it is used elsewhere. Ditto race adjectives in SA v US. Hence, the need for common sense and courtesy as you say and an understanding of context (and intent). IMO, racism and other ism's are conquered when words can be reclaimed and used at face value. My point about SA is that I think that this has been achieved better than in US and UK, even thought this may make US/UK visitors uncomfortable and uncertain.

But this whole case is more a combination of a long running spat between two guys who dislike each other and a need to fill column inches in the eve of Europe's second biggest golf tournament. It does not make the sport racist IMO, so for that reason, "I am out."

I dont know enough tbaout golf to comment tbh

Was Tiger not still banned form some golf clubs - ie it was no women and no blacks still in some parts of the US?

I assume this means some are racist rather than the sport is

Funny though as, despite the clothes they wear, it is a rather conservative [establishment /old school not political] sport IMHO

As for second guy yes he probably did not mean any offence but if you want to apologise for racism you would send someone better informed

Racism is still in society so it will still be in sport

Well if I am coming round for dinner you had better not serve Haggis!

I used to work with a load of Frenchies (sorry Cheese eating surrender monkeys :D) who reffered to Scots as Haggis (Ageese) and English as Roast Beefs (Rosbifs).

It is my understanding that a certain Mr Woods is perhaps lacking in the Humour dept.

Fried chicken relates back to the time of slavery. I cannot see how anyone who has spent any time in the US could say the sentence Garcia said without intending to insult in a racial way. That sentence is about as bad as you can get it seems to me.

I wonder if the European director guy is South African. Does not excuse his use of words, but might explain that the coloured term is engrained in his brain.