Speaking as another academic Ahsat's advice is good.
I'be just looked at the UEA website and teaching doesn't start until next week, so by all means register your concerns with the course director, but you may find things change.
Log on to your online teaching environment and check everything on there too, plus any paperwork and emails, in case you missed something registration wise.
My 4 year apprenticeship in industry back in the 90’s taught me more about life and hands-on engineering than a mech eng degree did…so for me, uni was a waste of time and I genuinely hated it
Universities aren't meant to be vocational schools. The idea is that students get a much broader education (i.e. university = universal knowledge). So you have engineers who also have an appreciation of literature, ethics, politics, philosophy, sociology etc. Companies like Uber and Facebook could do with some higher level management who have a broader education and appreciate that just pushing technology isn't enough, there needs to be some consideration of the broader effects of how that technology is used and the social and political consequences of it.
Don't make a spur-of-the-moment decision that you may well regret. After all, you're paid up and won't be getting that cash back.
And it's not as if there's some kind of gap year paradise out there in the middle of a pandemic.
Look for support from the university, both academically, and for yourself, if you are feeling anxious or depressed about how things are going.
Speaking as another academic Ahsat’s advice is good.
I’be just looked at the UEA website and teaching doesn’t start until next week, so by all means register your concerns with the course director, but you may find things change.
@shackleton is a better academic than me and actually did some research 😉 Not defending your experience but worth just noting that moving to online delivery and the rapidly changing situation (with Leeds going to into lockdown yesterday our guidance changed again yesterday!) timetabling has been a lot more complex than normal so they may be delays in letting you know what is happening; which if term is starting next week will v likely/hopefully improve. Still chase it up though.
(Appears all academics ride Banshees and Stantons ;-P)
So you have engineers who also have an appreciation of literature, ethics, politics, philosophy, sociology etc.
Lol. Not met any engineers have you!
Lol. Not met any engineers have you!
I spent a year at engineering school. It was full of *s who really just belonged in a vocational school. I got interested in philosophy of science and switched to a philosophy degree. A lot of physics students took philosophy courses too, most of them were smart and interesting people. Universities offer the opportunity for a broad education. Whether students appreciate that opportunity is a different matter. The main problem with engineers is that tech companies tend to be run by technocratic types who tend to hire their own reflections, so engineers are incentivized to behave like *s.
A major trait of successful people is persistence in the face of difficulty.
Well it is if the winners get to write history. They tell you they were successful because they stuck at it when others gave up. Of course if you ask a different group they’ll tell you that “failing fast” is an attribute of success - ie realising early that the path they are on is not going to lead to the destination they originally planned. And that’s before we even debate what successful means.
Lol. Not met any engineers have you!
+1
Probably the least diverse people you could meet...
Is there a friendly dealer guy on campus? Go hit him up for some green.
if you ask a different group they’ll tell you that “failing fast” is an attribute of success – ie realising early that the path they are on is not going to lead to the destination they originally planned
We're talking about something a bit different. Realizing that you need to change direction is important, but that's not the same as quitting because you encountered an obstacle. Anything you do will involve some unforeseen obstacles, you can't just give up everytime things don't go according to plan. If you are going to succeed in your goals, sticking at it and overcoming difficulties is essential. In this case, the OP is frustrated because the admin side of his course is a shambles, he hasn't decided to change his direction. Quitting would be a mistake if he doesn't have some alternative goal to work towards.
Another academic here, fitting the Stanton stereotype.....
Our timetabling has been a horrific nightmare. People have been working nights and weekends to make it all work, we've been looking at hiring additional spaces to deliver in, the staff are very divided on whether to do face to face teaching at all (I think it's nuts), and the situation is changing very fast.
Like most of my colleagues, I spent a lot of time over the summer turning my lecture material into online content. A huge amount of work has been and is being done, but I start the week after next and I have no idea when or whom I am teaching,
I am sorry things are a bit trying for you at the moment. It might help to remember that Universities are really messed up due to COVID - its not that no one cares about you or any student, its that the staff are overwhelmed by the situation. The more practical staff 'on the ground' are often hindered by the people who control university policy etc and now by the governments often seemingly random last minute COVID policies. Most on the ground staff really care, as they can see the result of issues for students, unlike higher up managers.
If you decide to leave now, do you have anything lined up? Lots of charities are going down the pan - many animal welfare charities for example have stopped taking animals in and never expect to be able to afford to re-open. Charities of all types closing or stalling means less opportunity to volunteer. The National Trust for example is laying off huge numbers of staff.
Re casual work - in the last couple of years I have seen jobs advertised for staff in 3 different cafes (I live in the South West) - all of whom demanded a degree qualification in order to wait tables and pour coffee (total madness, but its still an issue).
In one of the papers I have seen they are getting between 650 and 2000 applicants for basic jobs as so many are already out of work and its going to be much worse by the New Year. Signing up as unemployed is a horrid experience, even people who have long employment histories get treated quite badly by the government these days if they have no choice but to sign on, as there is constant fear of being punished for quite trivial errors - no money means no food.
Perhaps start your own education while waiting for the Uni - start reading books or internet materials on essay writing, basic UK law etc. If you are bored maybe pick a chapter from a law book and write a practice essay on whatever it covers. Alternatively start a blog on University life or some other aspect that interests you, its something to show employers, displaying your intellect and writing skills.
I am sad to say that what you are experiencing at the moment will be echoed in the world of work too. Much employment is effected hugely by COVID, but also as you enter the world of employment you will find many many job descriptions have no resemblance to the reality of the job. They are glossed up, full of interesting opportunities and promotion prospects. In reality you are often stuck in a corner, doing repetitive boring tasks that never improve. After much dedication you see the job opportunities given to people from outside the company, often with limited skills and experience (sometimes because the boss fancied them at the interview. Yes, this does still happen. I know of several men who got jobs that way from female or gay interviewers, its not just women who get appointed for looks. I have even been told directly and openly by one interviewer he appointed a man for personal physical attraction, not skills). Don't assume that if you leave the disappointment of Uni that working will definitely be wonderful and meaningful in comparison, with no loneliness or boredom.
Lots of life is sold on 'added gloss' rather than reality, University and jobs included. Consider any big move carefully and try to see beyond what you are told.
PS whenever you move into the world of work, always ask to see your potential workspace at the interview or before accepting the job. The reaction of the interviewer/s can be very very enlightening.
Good luck and all the best.
I spent a year at engineering school. It was full of *s who really just belonged in a vocational school. I got interested in philosophy of science and switched to a philosophy degree. A lot of physics students took philosophy courses too, most of them were smart and interesting people. Universities offer the opportunity for a broad education
Not sure where you went but my first year was 38 hours a week of labs and lectures, 4-5 on a Friday for semiconductor theory was a classic way to round off the week. Not much time for musing
Not sure my Zambian lab partner could be described as a *
My sister is in the same boat at Kings studying nursing.
YouTube videos on how to take bloods...
Engineers aren't all ignorant arts and philosophy hating twonks....I even read books in my spare time... Just trying to say university isn't the only route, doesn't fit everyone and to be honest is it value for money ? Personally engineering was a full time, maths heavy, philosophy avoiding degree...35 hours per week and no time off for "reading weeks".... Let's not get into the arts vs science argument, that's not what this post is about. Good lucks with your decision.
I didn't go to uni straight afyer school because i had do sense of where i wanted to do. On my first almost degree (mathematics) i was quietly asked to leave after failing 3rd year a second time. That was a result of hating the whole experience. I have spent 10 years regretting not leaving after having a disastrous second year and at various points after that before it all went very very wrong and i didn't bother sitting the exams.
I am studying again and after 2 years of stress i have finally realised that the one thing i should have been doing from school onwards is talking to people. Teachers tutors lecturers course leaders student union advice centre family and seeking advice.
I will never know what could have resulted from that.
I may have focussed my ideas earlier and gone to uni and failed that, or passed it.
I may have managed to sort my maths degree out with help, or transferred to another course which i may have succeeded or failed in.
I might have left uni years earlier and been successful or not.
All those years of regret about not leaving sooner were a waste of time and emotionally draining. What I do regret is not doing more to talk to people, they generally want to help and you may find someone who os feeling the same.
My advice for what its worth is don't stay silent and just walk away (or stay silent and be unhappy). Talk talk talk you every avenue available to you to help build a better picture of what is going on and how you may be able to improve your situation. If you do decide its not for you, you can walk away knowing you made an informed choice and you having nothing to regret.
Tl;dr?
Life is too short to be unhappy, but snap decisions aren't necessarily going to improve situations and infact can be a whole lot worse. Talk talk talk.
Hols2
Universities aren’t meant to be vocational schools. The idea is that students get a much broader education (i.e. university = universal knowledge).
I absolutely hate that kind of elitist attitude. See the person, not the university/privilege.
It’s not an elitist attitude. Remember, most people leaving University now (or soon) will have several different careers in their lifetime… many doing careers that don’t even exist yet… but their time at university should help them in all those careers, not just one.
Come on guys have this debate elsewhere.
Agreed.
Kentishman, I spoke to some law graduates today, and the first term of the first year was as intense as hell for them… a lot of work… loads to learn… it was hard to cram it all in… and they couldn’t imagine how they would have caught up if they’d missed it. Best to start asking questions of the facility now about what you will actually get in the next few months.
Proper shit situation.
Some excellent advice re checking in with the SU, tutors, other students etc. UEA is an excellent Uni & your experience sounds like its very much not what anyone wants and/or planned.
I worked at a Uni for a while and the timetabling team were constantly stressed and having to re-jig rooms & schedules a la 3D tetris. Given the current situation and pressure across the board I can only imagine its a nightmarish task to start it all from scratch.
I went to UEA & stayed on in Norwich for 12 years. Its a fantastic city and I miss it massively.
This initial situation will get sorted.
Stick with it & if it doesn't get substantially better (a term?) then you've given it a proper go
Don't walk away.
The course seems shocking, but remember they aim of uni is:
1) Have fun
2) Get a bit of paper with a crest and signature at the end of it
For number 1, make use of the tour time. Smash the online learning and get out doing social stuff you can enjoy. Any cycling nearby? Get boozed?! Get a bar job, which is what I did, had a great time.
For number 2. Just jump through the hoops they give you. I reckon you'll have an easier time than in a regular year. Just plod along.
From my recollection the 1st 2 weeks of uni are about getting wasted and partying. Classes then start once everyone gets it out of their system.
It sounds like you are there to learn more than party. Better off waiting if you can’t get refund.
Does sale of goods act apply to a £9k uni course?
As above UEA has a good rep, sure they don’t want it damaged.
Kelvin It’s not an elitist attitude. Remember, most people leaving University now (or soon) will have several different careers in their lifetime… many doing careers that don’t even exist yet… but their time at university should help them in all those careers, not just one
And that is no different for us dumb apprentices. I am just leaving a technology that did not exist 17 years ago which is about 35 years after I started my apprenticeship.
The skills I learnt in my apprenticeship have been invaluable. Glad I did not go to Uni and end up scoffing at ignorant ****'s like me.
Glad I did not go to Uni and end up scoffing at ignorant ****’s like me.
Did the apprenticeship give you the chip on your shoulder, or did that come later?
The skills I learnt in my apprenticeship have been invaluable.
Absolutely. As it should be.
Not sure where dumb comes into it though. I know A* students who took the apprenticeship route, and some places are harder to get than squeezing onto a Uni course.
Not read the rest of the thread but OP
First 2 weeks you certainly don’t go near a lecture/tutor and just supposed to get very drunk. If you have had enough already because you are not throwing up every night because of COVID restrictions then you may well have a valid point.
Christ I'd be having a ball if I was you! There is plenty of time to be mature and responsible and join the misery of the 9-5 rat race later on in life. Enjoy the free time and lack of pressure while it lasts would be my advice. University is not all about the work and getting a return for your money. It's a wonderful social experience. If you are young I wouldn't make any decisions about it till towards the end of the academic year.
Is there any nice ladies you could have some fun with indoors for 2 weeks?
Appreciate it's not great, I did History and contact hours under normal circumstances weren't a patch on mates doing sciences etc. Life isn't always perfect sadly so it might just be a period where you might need to knuckle down and lap it up whilst trying to make the most of the situation. As others have said you've the rest of your working life to have your days filled. I'd strongly doubt one year of quasi distance learning will make a huge dent into a law degree (4 years?). It'd maybe be a good opportunity albeit early to research career areas of interest or possible summer jobs and just chat with fellow undergrads in the same boat. Good luck.
Just thought I'd give an update on this.
Firstly I don't know why I wrote in the first person innately but it's my son and not me at UEA.
He has decided to leave and go to university next year as the online teaching is not working for him. He has got some voluntary work doing advocacy and I will keep him busy too.
UEA has been good too and thank you to all the advice given on here as it was useful.
On the finance front he will not have to pay for course fees if he leaves before the 19th Oct and only pay for the weeks he has stayed in halls.
Thanks all
Scary decision but sounds like it's right for him.
Different unis see these things differently, with my lot, if you apply and you have a history that says "started a course, thought better of it, left before it was a problem", they're not exactly delighted- they'll be thinking "what if it happens again"- but as long as the personal statement gives a decent reason it's no detriment. Way better than sticking it out then crashing out like so many kids do. But in this year, I reckon any admissions tutor that holds it against him next year is unfit to do the job frankly. There will be some, have no doubt, but there's not much you can do about rogue arseholes, and if there's an instutution that decides it's too big a black mark then fine, they don't want him and he probably doesn't want them.
Hope it all works out as best as it can, the main thing with this year is that there's just no good options, you can only choose the shit option that's best for you.
I dropped out of poly (that dates it) after a couple of weeks. Reapplied for elsewhere the following year, but was lucky enough to have found an employer in the meantime who wanted to keep me and supported my professional qualifications.
It's not for everyone, especially at that age.
