[Closed] putting a healthy dog down......sad.

The woman should have known better.

Shame they couldn't have tried to find it a good home.

Thats very sad, sounds like the right option though. I love dogs but they are just dogs.

-

--

I'm in agreement with Drac on this. Really sorry that the dog was put to sleep. Someone who works with dogs should know better.

Hope your son is okay though, sounds like a rough time all round.

That is a young dog still trying to learn.

That woman is stupid ...

Animal is usually unpredictable.

That is a young dog still trying to learn.

That woman is stupid ...

Animal is usually unpredictable.

Complete bollocks from you. Dogs are predictable, mine wouldnt bite anyone in the face. No dog learns from biting someone.

Dogs are [b]mostly[/b] predictable, mine [s]wouldnt[/s] hasn't bitten anyone in the face. No dog learns from biting someone [b]unless taught[/b]

Every puppy ideally learns not to bite. A dog is naturally uncomfortable/threatened with a surprise mouth coming at it. Groomer should know better.

anagallis_arvensis - Member
Complete bollocks from you. Dogs are predictable, mine wouldnt bite anyone in the face. No dog learns from biting someone.

Really? Give it a try by bending down to kiss someone else dog that you are not very familiar with. See if all dogs are the same (like your own).

I think what Chewkw meant was you can't trust any dog. I wouldn't trust mine 100% he's a dog, if he feels threatend enough he'll bite, putting your drunken face directly towards someone elses dog is asking for trouble. My brothers own dog bit him when he approached her when he was a bit worse for wear, caught him right on the nose.

He didn't have her put down though as it was his fault.

Actually Ckewkw is only half wrong - which for him is impressive.

Trying to kiss a dog you don't know? That's foolhardy. Dogs don't like it but they will put up with it from folks they know & trust. It can be quite threatening for them.

I'm a little surprised a dog groomer would do such a thing.

FYI I was a dog trainer at Battersea.

I agree with chewkw.

Shudders....

Goes for a wash.

Scared dog. Drunk person cooing and arring and pushing into a dogs face and frigtening them. Growl as a deterrant then a warning snap/bite .

If the dog was truly vicious once it had bitten it would have ripped her face off especially being a mastiff/ridgeback.

Sign of an untrained dog that is doing something naturally. Highlights the problem of owning powerful breeds that need really strong leadership and training instilled into them from a puppy.

Really? Give it a try by bending down to kiss someone else dog that you are not very familiar with. See if all dogs are the same (like your own).

Thats not what I said though is it. Its entirely predictable that a dog that has already bitten someone in the face is likely to do it again just as its preductable that my dog wouldnt do this. Dogs are predictable which is why you said the women was foolish to do what she did. You made a prediction about dog behaviour and you were right you couldnt do that if they werent predictable.

sounds like it was a convenient excuse to get rid of the dog if you ask me.

Dogs are predictable which is why you said the women was foolish to do what she did. You made a prediction about dog behaviour and you were right you couldnt do that if they werent predictable.

[img] [/img]

anyway, they bought a pup a year ago. pup turned into a big ridgeback/mastiff cross. way to big for them.

Totally irresponsible. Pup didn't turn into anything, it grew in to what it was always going to be. They must of known it's parents size when they bought it?

saturday night, they went out together with some other friends. trying to keep friendly. when they returned full of drink, one of the women bent down to try and kiss the dog.

So this big dog is routinely left alone for extended lengths of time? Doesn't sound good to me.

he didnt take to kindly to that, and growled then bit the woman on the lip. 6 stitches and a few other marks on her face.

If he had really gone for her it would of been a lot worse. Stupid thing to do.

I feel really sorry for that dog. He deserved better.

[quoteFunkyDunc - Member

sounds like it was a convenient excuse to get rid of the dog if you ask me.

POSTED 47 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST

This ^

Big pups grow into big dogs and when you get a pup you I'd assume was seen with it's mother so you get an idea of size?
The dog was put in a situation that it was obviously uncomfortable with by a group of drunk people and in particular, someone that works with dogs (I wouldn't be trusting her my my dog).
The dog growled- pretty sure that's a warning sign and the woman didn't move away? Then after warning the drunk woman the dog bit her.
If the dog wanted to really go for the women then wouldn't he bite and hold and then possibly shook its head whilst still biting?
Sorry but the OP's son and guests are totally responsible for the needless death of a dog. Shame on them!

I take it that the son and ex-wife won't be getting another dog?

Sounds like a real Jeremy Kyle family. 😆

Animals are not predictable (and I count humans in that)

Anyone that has animals should know that.

Nice arguing dickwads :/

Ton: The crappy feeling is understandable and reflects well on you as a person - the not nice people in this world don't care about things like this. It's fine, though - the dog didn't suffer.

[quoteRob Hilton - Member

Nice arguing dickwads :/

Classy!

cheers Rob, appreciated mate.

just to clear up a couple of points.
the pup was not seen when they bought it, I told them not to buy a dog without seeing the parents, I was ignored. I am a lifelong dog owner.

the dog was not left alone for long periods. on the night in question a family member was babysitting the kids and dog whilst they went out.

and I agree that this was a reason for my sons wife (who wanted to keep the dog when they split) to get rid of the dog, when she realised it was going to be a hassle keeping it.

was putting the groomer down for being stupid an option?

the dog didn't suffer.

Really? A pack animal that was never really wanted and part of any "pack"?

Killed after a year because it wasn't wanted? Sounds a pretty miserable existence to me.

I wouldn't trust mine 100% he's a dog, if he feels threatend enough he'll bite, putting your drunken face directly towards someone elses dog is asking for trouble. My [s]brothers [/s]own dog bit [s]him [/s][b]me [/b]when [s]he [/s] [b]I[/b] approached [s]her [/s] [b]him[/b] when [s]he [/s] I was a bit worse for wear, [s]caught him right on the[/s] [b]just missed my[/b] nose.

[s]He [/s] [b]I [/b]didn't have [s]her [/s] [b]him [/b]put down though as it was [s]his [/s] [b]my[/b] fault.

Ours is a rescue, and whilst pretty docile 98% of the time, if he feels threatened or cornered he'll snap.

Ton - it is horrible though. I've good a good mate who had to have one of their dogs put down because it had a tendency to bite. Real shame, he was an otherwise lovely dog, and they were gutted

Is it me, or are threads about dogs always guaranteed to engender the highest levels of STW bellendery?

Ermmm! What's that about IHN?

Its hardly clutching at straws. Dogs are predictable, otherwise how can we criticise the women for doing something that had predictable results?
Its also predictable that a dog that has bitten once will be likely to do it again. Hence the rehomers wouldnt take it and given the owners had kids they made a correct yet sad decision.

What's what about? I was a bit drunk, acted in a way which made my dog feel threatened and he tried to bite me.

Oh, sorry, wasn't implying it was you, I was trying to show that your answer was a common example.

Oh, sorry, wasn't implying it was you, I was trying to show that your answer was a common example.

I wasn't sure cheers for clarifying.

Dogs are predictable, otherwise how can we criticise the women for doing something that had predictable results?

Keep digging.

Really? A pack animal that was never really wanted and part of any "pack"?

Many say dogs aren't pack animals. Oh, look I've entered the argument and it's going off at a tangent...

Killed after a year because it wasn't wanted? Sounds a pretty miserable existence to me.

Best thing for it then, surely?? Obviously the non-suffering thing relates to how it died - unlikely to have been with a rusty spoon, don't you think?

Death really isn't so bad to those it happens to, they've been switched off and know nothing. It's the ones who remember them that have the pain.

Its also predictable that a dog that has bitten once will be likely to do it again.

Not true in the slightest.

Where's your reasoning? Examples? A dog may bite again IF it feels threatened, or it may not..

You need to understand dogs a little better, yes they are unpredictable but with practice & knowledge they can become easier to read. They are, after all, most definitely communicating with us though these signs can be very subtle & easy to miss.

Just because a dogs bitten once DOES NOT MEAN IT WILL BITE AGAIN.

Keep digging.

Keep not engaging.
If dogs are not predictable why do we criticise the womens behaviour towards the dog. Its not hard to grasp but then this is stw

Many say dogs aren't pack animals.

I had my 6yr old collie put down last year. hard, really hard. 99.99% of the time he was a docile, fantastic dog.

the other 0.01% it was a child's face. luckily for her it was just a graze. she knew him, she'd played with him many times before with my son and was doing nothing wrong. I was there and he didn't show any warning signs or aggression. the warning was the bite.

we looked at all the options including rehoming but no one want's a rescue collie, let alone one that's bitten. We tried places up and down the country. we were even advised to play down the biting incident by one place if we wanted him rehomed!!

after a couple of long discussions with the vet we had him put down. One of the hardest decisions I've had to make and still makes me sad now.

I still wonder if there is anything different we could have done but how do you 'train' out a response that is so unpredictable?

Just because a dogs bitten once DOES NOT MEAN IT WILL BITE AGAIN.

But what if it does? Is that a risk you can take can an owner?
Sure, what do you care, it unlikely to turn on the alpha ( as the owner )

I'm not pro or anti dogs but I think they should be put down if they bite.

and they are right because dogs dont form packs.

OK. I know that there is some debate over what actually constitutes a "pack" and all that goes with it.

However, dogs are social animals and live in groups and need the interaction. Call it whatever you like, they still need to be in a "group".

If dogs are not predictable why do we criticise the womens behaviour towards the dog

Because it was foolish approaching a dog face first not knowing how it would react, you unknown as in she couldn't predict. Like I said I'm 99% sure how my dog will behave but I don't trust him 100% as you can't say for certain. Seems you're struggling to engage.

Just because a dogs bitten once DOES NOT MEAN IT WILL BITE AGAIN.

Perhaps not "will" but surely more likely to. The dog's trust and RSPCA have huge experience of dogs and wouldn't take the dog because of the biting. Are they completely wrong about this ??
Very sad all round 🙁 and highlights the importance of getting the right dog if one at all.

Sure, what do you care

As someone who worked in a rescue home I find that comment facile in the extreme.

My point being, is that it is possible to make a reasonable assessment on a dogs likelihood of biting. It is then possible to avoid scenarios where a dog may feel that it's only recourse is to bite.

However, they are still animals ergo unpredictable.

Are they completely wrong about this ??

Did I say they were? Please show me where I did.

I'm going to get flamed for this, but I also think there's a difference between an 'aggressive' bite, and a 'defensive' snap (which usually have a much lower level of 'intensity' on the dog's part). The former cannot be tolerated, but the latter is more of a learning point for the human, not the dog.

Exactly IHN a warning nip isn't the same as a full bite but a nip from a Mastiff is a big nip though. But who would have thought a Mastiff pup would grow so big.

You need to understand dogs a little better, yes they are unpredictable but with practice & knowledge they can become easier to read. They are, after all, most definitely communicating with us though these signs can be very subtle & easy to miss.

So what you are saying is they are predictable?

Because it was foolish approaching a dog face first not knowing how it would react, you unknown as in she couldn't predict.

So she was foolish because it was predictable she was increasing greatly the probability of getting bitten?

My point being, is that it is possible to make a reasonable assessment on a dogs likelihood of biting. It is then possible to avoid scenarios where a dog may feel that it's only recourse is to bite.

However, they are still animals ergo unpredictable.

I give up!
😆

Probably best you do.

I always say hello to any dogs I see tied up outside shops, always have from a very young age. I also have always worked in one aspect of building industry or another but always residential and always say hello to the resident mut after asking the owner.

I have the good sense to slowely offer them the back of my hand to sniff before then going to stroke the top of the head.

I would not go in for kiss with any dog accept my own or family members who I know.

FYI I was a dog trainer at Battersea

Really? You've never mentioned that before 😉

I tend to ignore your doggy advice ever since you suggested using an occasional dog walker was the same as sending your children to boarding school!

[i]I would not go in for kiss with any dog [/i]

Indeed, but then the woman who committed the act of stupidity didn't think the dog should be put down, so knew she was in the wrong. Poor mutt.

DezB - Member
Poor mutt.

Indeed.

I would not go in for kiss with any dog

I guess it really depends on how attractive it is.

this boils my piss.

the dog growled, it was telling her it was being put in a position it didn't like. A clear communication, she should have backed off. If she knew anything about dogs she would have. I bet the dogs eyes were wide and the ears back and tail was down as well. Dogs communicate their feelings very clearly. The bite was the next stage of the dog telling her to back off.

if that dog was aggressive and intended to hurt her, it would have gone for her neck without warning bit, not let go and shaken it's head until she bled out.

I hope she feels dreadful for her behaviour. That dog should never had been put down. it's young it hadn't fully formed it's social skills yet. chances are it would never had done that again if properly managed and looked after.

sorry, Ton, your son should be ashamed that he's taken this path, and that friend - if she was a dog groomer should really have read the signs and backed off instead of stressing that poor dog out.

Don't stick you face in a dogs, it's stupid, they don't like it. If a dog wants to kiss you then that's on it's own terms. Still why would you want to?! they lick their genitals and sniff other dogs arses.

Poor dog. Sounds like a rushed and possibly convenient decision.

My cats routinely assault me, my wife and the kids for crimes that range from 'not feeding them quick enough', 'sitting on the wrong part of the sofa', 'stroking them', 'being near them', 'moving them', 'walking past them', moving yourself' etc. There is often claret and tears. But they're cats, it's what they do, we accept it. Dogs growl and snap when they're upset or feel threatened. They're dogs, it's what they do.

For point of reference I've been around dogs all my life, been bitten many times, nearly always my own fault; except for the two instances involving Yorkies. Both those little b******s can burn in hell for all I care, but they were not put to sleep.

...dogs also eat poo and their own sick. I mean really, you want to be kissed with that mouth...

I'd have put it down. It's a dog, not a child, and it's not like it was a warning nip.

It could have been a child the dog bit. So well done for taking the difficult but correct choice.

Won't go down well but all the time we have dogs coming up to out toddler - because the owners don't have their dog on a lead. At the end of the day it's a dog, not a person and it doesn't get the benefit of the doubt or circumstance I'm afraid. .

Probably best you do.

Its funny you say that as you appear to have no idea what probability is 😆

I hope the people who are also responsible for this feel like shit for what has happened. They are partly to blame for the destruction of a young dog.

Poor choice of animal, poor timing to get it, left alone whilst your down the pub, new people into the animals home, breathing alcohol into its face. How would a human react to a pissed up stranger trying to kiss them? Is he a toy? Then show the animal the respect it needs.

Why have it destroyed unless it is necessary too ? Easy street for them.

TBH i feel sorry for all concerned, its probably one of those situations that just happens, maybe from a foolish moment, but has sad implications afterwards. we've all done daft things, but its sad when a poor pooch has to be put down because of it. not much point apportioning blame now ^^^, therell be a fair bit of guilt felt for a while id guess.

as an aside, addressed to you 'doggy behaviour readers', wouldnt mind your take on something our dog does.
got a lovely little jack russell, lovely natured, doesnt snap or even chase cats if he sees them, just has a look and moves on, and this is walking off his lead. my question is about what he does if wife moves him from a comfy position, he lets out a little grrrrrrr, hardly audible but there nonetheless. wife always bollocks him for it to 'teach him not to do it again' and i think this is the right thing to do. but a part of me wonders if hes just saying "doh, cant you leave me alone, i was comfy there". after all, he cant talk, so how else is he sposed to 'voice his disagreement'.

so, acceptable or not? interested to hear opinions. FWIW we're not in the slightest bit worried about it, hes the loveliest natured dog you could wish to have, a real character.

Really? You've never mentioned that before
I tend to ignore your doggy advice ever since you suggested using an occasional dog walker was the same as sending your children to boarding school!

Each to their own - I point it out as there's a lot of homespun crap spouted about dogs here & I like folks to knows that my opinion at least has some substantive experience to back it up.

Rather than cuddly stories about Fido my opinion is hard earned & I can back it up. I have the scars!

So what you are saying is they are predictable?

You seem to be the only one who cannot grasp the concept that knowledge & experience can help to understand a situation better - however like with pretty much ANYTHING there's always the possibility of something unpredictable happening.

If you're looking for 100% predictability then I think you're in the wrong universe!

If you're looking for 100% predictability then I think you're in the wrong universe!

Which is my point! Dogs are predictable. Saying its an animal so its unpredictable having just written that the women should have understood she shouldnt have taken the course of action she did is to over simplify everything.
Dogs are predictable if I walk up to a strange dog and kick it its likely to either bite me or run away.

Dogs are not binary.

The woman, possibly, should have known better. I do not know how much experience she has nor what dogs she has worked with.

But dogs are unpredictable - they are living, thinking, feeling creatures capable of varying courses of action capable of acting on can be perceived as a whim. These are facts..

They can be trained & acclimatisation to them over a period of time can help predict their actions.

But they are still animals ergo capable of performing an unpredictable act.

Surely the actions of the woman would of triggered a "fight or flight" reflex?

The dog had a reflex action to a possible threat.

You just have a look on Facebook or Youtube for the videos of getting startled by a mate and lashing out. Not a thought out action just a reflex to something.

What about John Prescott and the egg throwing bloke. Should he of been put down? Maybe he should but not for that....

The whole situation was completely shit especially for the dog.

just spoke to my son. the dogs trust and the rspca both told him that if the dog had been with them, and had bitten someone, they would have put it to sleep.
the vet that the rspca told him to see also advised the dog to be put to sleep.

the dog was 6 week old when they got it, and they were told it was ridgeback cross. they did not see the parents. stupid, as I told them at the time.
it has been with 3 kids for the last 16 month, no problems. kids are 3, 6 and 8. dog loved to play and roll about with the kids, never had any issues until Saturday night.

dog was put to sleep on the advice of experts. still sad in my eyes.

But dogs are unpredictable - they are living, thinking, feeling creatures capable of varying courses of action capable of acting on can be perceived as a whim. These are facts..

You saying its fact doesnt mean it is!!!!

But they are still animals ergo capable of performing an unpredictable act.

The women in question was a dog groomer apparently by the way!

People on here are pretty effing predictable, man expresses his sorrow that an animal is put down ,and all people do is pontificate about their own views as if anybody ever changed someone's mind on the internet .

just spoke to my son. the dogs trust and the rspca both told him that if the dog had been with them, and had bitten someone, they would have put it to sleep.

This must be due to the size and potential damage a dog of such size could inflict.

The dogs trust near me have a small dog my mum wants to adopt but they won't put it out for adoption as it has biten several members s of staff, their trainers are working with it to hopefully change its ways or they will have to put it to sleep.

Dogs are predictable there behaviour is predictable

100% of the time?

Are you sure?

Stake your life on it?

I give up - you're not making any sense.

100% of the time?

Are you sure?

Stake your life on it?

Reading with understanding is not a strong point is it.

Of course not 100% nothing in biology is. That doesnt make it unpredictable though. If dogs were unpredictable they would be shit pets. If dogs werent predictable you wouldnt be able to train them.

The woman, possibly, should have known better.

How could she if dogs are unpredictable?

Anyway I'm off home to walk my dog I predict she might take a shit, most probably in one of about 3 of the usual places. If she see's a squirrel she'll chase it. If she see's one of the usual dog owners with treats she'll run up to them and sit down. Everyone else she'll ignore. If a strange persob tries to stroke her she'll avoid contact.

I'll report back later to see if she's predictable.
If I see a mastive cross or indeed any dog I dont know I'll avoid trying to kiss it as it might bite me.

This would be comedy gold if it wasn't for the sad circumstances.

Must have been difficult for your son Ton.

Me sad for the dog, that's for sure.

Can't be arsed pontificating over the rights and wrongs.

Only other thing I'll say is that I learned my lesson 15 yrs ago. Used to drink in a pub where 2 Rottweillers - owned by the pub family - happened to partake in late night festivities once in a while. As a lifelong 'dog person' I used to have some rough and tumble with them. Then one night I put my head beside one of theirs and he gave a proper warning growl. That's when I knew I had crossed the line. Had he kicked off it would have been me to blame, not him.

Must have been difficult for your son Ton.

I gave him a proper bollocking, but to be honest he has far too much on his plate at present.
wife of less than a year telling him to move out, them she tried to make him take the dog she wanted, then having to get it put down.

like I said at the start of the thread.....life is shit sometimes.

Life is shit at times.

It definitely is. As I said back on page one, I hope your son is coping alright. A shitty situation made worse by having to have his dog put to sleep. Just a shite situation all around

We have had two similar situations recently with my kids and dogs. I admit both my kids for some reason are nervous around dogs. They love them to bits but for some reason give off a very nervous feeling at first.

Anyhow we were bouldering in the lakes a couple of weeks ago and after an hour or so a woman turns up and despite signs saying no dogs she tied her dog to her gear and started climbing. She was nice enough etc. My boy sees this little dog and as my son walked past he, as he has been shown by my put his hand low and let the dog come to his hand. Dog tried to nip him and was completely out of line. Son was quick to react so no harm done. Got the normal response of he's soft as muck and wouldn't have hurt anyone. I just told both kids to keep away from it.

Second was next door neighbours have a little mutt they are looking after. These are serious dog lovers. My kids are banging on about this dog and they want to see it so I take them out when he is walking it and ask if we can say hello. I go in first and put my hand down low let it lick my hand, it softly mouths my fingers and responds lovely to my attention. I ended up getting my face licked and after a few minutes my kids are all over this dog playing with it safely.

There is no rule or reason for either of these dogs responses but anyone who tries to kiss a strange dog without testing the waters wants their effing heads seen to, especially someone who works with dogs.

I have always been around dogs as a kid. I must admit to being bitten a few times and it seems to be as though the old days of a dog telling you to bugger off with a nip suddenly is reason for them to be put down which seems wrong.

As a kid I can remember

stand on a tail, get a nip
blow in a dogs face, get a nip (But I always went back for more)
Tease a dog at its gate, get a nip
Run through neighbours garden or farmers field/farm - get a nip

I must have been bitten loads of times which drew blood and tbh were part of being a lad growing up. The only time I blamed the actual dog was my best mates dog used to get out from time to time and that bastard alsation would chase you down and bite you. After my dad went around and threatened to throttle it with his bare hands they sorted their fence out and I never ever saw it off a lead again.

Its a dog, if it bites, muzzle it. If it nips then stop teasing it.

Not to be glib but if there's a bright side hopefully the dog enjoyed his time and had a painless death as opposed to years of suffering with arthritis, dementia, cancer or something else which, lets face it, most of us will.

Unfortunate circumstances and hopefully people reading might have learned what not to do with a strange dog. I've been mocked and derided numerous times on this forum for saying never trust a dog, especially around children. What I mean by that is unless you predict with 100% certainty what your child will do, and you're 100% certain what your dog will do, excercise some caution.

The lady in question obviously felt confident she knew how the dog would react, probably based on working closely with dogs but she was mistaken. If she's been less friendly she might have only ended up with a nip on the finger. When I encounter a strange dog I generally let them come to me. If they seem friendly I'll let them sniff my (closed) hand.