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All the dickheads come out to play on these threads eh?
Actually, thinking about it, I would actually blame my dog first if it got bitten by another dog, but then she's not a puppy, so should know better.
Most owners I know who have dogs which are liable to bite warn before it gets to that situation. I've passed many, as my dog is hardly ever on lead.
But, yeah, shit happens, like a bloke out with his dog getting a broken nose for not apologising or taking responsibility, ie giving a decent advance warning.
Puppy learns that not all other dogs want to play. That's about it really.
Personally I wouldn't even bother with a trip to the vets for what looks like a pretty trivial wound.
Where I'm living, if dogs are off leash and one gets bitten,theres not much bylaw officers can do.
If BOTH the dogs are on leash, the aggressive dog owner will get fined, dog required to be muzzled in public or other depending on the seriousness/ frequency.
In your situation, making a report, it would be taken seriously but the ultimate result is that you would probably be reminded to leash your dog.
Unfortunately I'm in similar situation to the other owner. I see another dog, mine gets recalled, put on a leash and the approaching owner advised. Typically when owners see a dog leashed they do the same.
If an owner asks if my dog is friendly I now say no.
(I wouldn't take my dog to a dog park though)
Chalk it up to experience unfortunately and realise that it's not just ginger kids that get picked on;)
Sorry, just read it properly and the wound isn't that trivial. Fair enough, worth checking out.
the other dogs body language was clearly not interested and he needs to get the idea of this.
Was it though? The OP doesn't say he saw any signs. It seems he just regards a dog being on a lead as a warning.
If dogs are unhappy with a pup's attention they'll usually warn them with a growl, but like people, there's some mardy ones.
Hopefully the pups OK and is a little more circumspect with other dogs but not scared stiff of them.
What sort of dog was the other one?
[i]What sort of dog was the other one? [/i]
bit lurcherish.
Sounds a bit 50:50 IMO. You just have to accept some dog owners ate d*cks. However, it doesn't sound like the OP even tried to call the dog back which isn't great.
2 dog owners acting irresponsibly, who'd have thought?
I've just been out for a run on the moors. Public bridleway, going past a farm, two loose dogs come charging out of the gate and chase me, growling and snapping. A collie and a horrible little terrier thing. The owner eventually comes out. He says "they'll stop chasing you in a minute." no apology.
I don't think "dog people" understand that not everyone is a "dog person".
I don't think some people understand that not all "dog people" are the same 🙄
I don't think some people understand that not all "dog people" are the same
Whatever. Just please don't let your dog chase me, jump up at my kids, chase the football/frisbee/rocket we're trying to play with, cover anywhere that's nice to walk with steaming turds (including hanging them from bushes in plastic bags) or keep us awake by barking all night, and we're good.
I wouldn't [i]let[/i] my dog chase you.
I'd [i]make [/i] it. 😆
I wouldn't let my dog chase you.I'd make it.
Not scared 🙂
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I'm with theotherjonv, who summed it up best.
If the other dog was dangerous to other dogs and known by its owners, then it should be muzzled.
Seen plenty of owners with dogs wearing a muzzle because they will bite anything.
Don't know the dog laws O.P. so I can't advise but see a solicitor or do some research on animal law?
Hope your dog mends soon. Googling will help:
England out of control law:
Your dog is considered dangerously out of control if it:
injures someone
makes someone worried that it might injure them
A court could also decide that your dog is dangerously out of control if either of the following apply:
it attacks someone’s animal
the owner of an animal thinks they could be injured if they tried to stop your dog attacking their animal.
So basically the other dog attacked your dog and is seen out of control?
It didn't 'attack' the OP's dog. The OP's big puppy ran up to it and the dog didn't want it to, so it warned it off in the way that dogs do. It was on a lead and wasn't out of control. It acted in a dog way to a perceived dog threat, in the same way that you might react to a potential mugger running up to you in the street.
Yes, you can reasonably argue that if a dog has those tendencies then it should probably be muzzled in public, and the owner sounds like he didn't act soon enough or appropriately, but dogs are animals and will deal with their own kind in ways that don't particularly translate.
It's a world away from a loose out of control dog going around 'attacking' others.
If I had a dog that bit other dogs I'd muzzle it and make a real effort to stop it biting a puppy. That the owner didnt clearly shows he's a ****. Puppies will be puppies and will occasionaly get things wrong. If I was the OP I'd be pissed off too. Hopefully the dog mends soon and you both learn from it too..Many dig owners are ****ing morons, just like everyone else.
Few weeks ago I was out with my 5 yearold son and my lurcher. A young, maybe a year or less old, Spaniel ran up to my son and knocked him over. Luckily my son wasnt too bothered however before I got to it to grab the lead my dog arrived on the scene and bowled it over and gave it a thorough growling, let it run a couple of times and then caught it and bowled it over again as it yeelped and wimpered. The owner then tried to have a go at me because of my dog! She didnt make much progress on that!
Out of order of anyone who has a dog that is known to bite to have it un-muzzled in an area with lots of dogs IMO
Used to have a dog that would occasionally try to bite smaller dogs and would just put muzzle on if in busier area rather than risk an incident. It didn't seem to affect the dogs enjoyment at all.
Hope your dog is ok wwaswas. As has been said by the sensible ones on this thread, if you know your dog often bites other dogs then surely you would put a muzzle on it, as the injuries don't look like that of a warning. My dog has had a go at irritating dogs that won't leave him alone and try to dominate him, but it's a growl and bark made to sound aggressive and he doesn't actually bite.
Dog owner knows their dog bites but doesn't control it when another dog comes up to it would be not keeping your dog under control. Owner has to keep dog under control of its on the lead or not. That's the other owners fault.
However you should have recalled your dog or keep it on the lead if it runs up to other dogs.
[quote=theotherjonv ]It didn't 'attack' the OP's dog.
You have a funny definition of attack - which apparently doesn't include "exerting its superiority / dominance" because it's allowed to do that even if it involves biting. It's also possible for a dog to be out of control when it's on a lead (especially a long one) - we've done this one before, if the dog wasn't out of control, then are we assuming that the owner ordered it to bite?
PTFU.
[i]keep it on the lead if it runs up to other dogs.[/i]
Don't agree with that at all. Dogs should be allowed to socialise. Dangerous ones could be that way because they weren't socialised properly as pups.
Neither of us were there and neither of us know what really happened. I know what i define as 'attack' and I know what I'd define as a 'back off' defensive action. I am inclined from the description and the injuries suffered to think what happened was not by my definition an attack. Whether you think it's 'funny' or not is immaterial, I've made my view pretty clear. I can't make you change yours.
A human can exert domination / superiority without attacking another. We use words. Dogs use physical gestures (snarling, teeth, and yes they will nip and bite) It's what dogs do, and it's not the same as a genuine attack which is prolonged and violent, and a very frightening thing to witness.
[i] so it warned it off in the way that dogs do[/i]
That is bollocks. It is far from normal for dogs to bite another dog in the face as a warning.
[quote=theotherjonv ]It's what dogs do, and it's not the same as a genuine attack which is prolonged and violent, and a very frightening thing to witness.
Ah, I think I understand now. How many bites would constitute an attack, is two enough? Is it different because it bit another dog, or is it also OK for a dog to bite a human who gets too close and upsets it so much that it needs to exert its dominance, so long as it only bites once?
Oh and whilst we're clarifying things, can I confirm that you also don't think the dog which bit was out of control?
OK you might not like this OP. Dogs are animals, they aren't humans. Puppy or not he warned you and you failed to keep your dog under control.
I've defended my dog before when a dog off the lead approached and I felt there was a threat. A different tangent but you had a warning and he was the one with a dog under control- your perception of a lead is your failing.
Tbh I cleaned up worse a wound than yours and I didn't use a vet. A Jack Russell ran out of a house and bit my dog just under the eye deep. It healed in under two days too.
I sound really negative but I think harsh is better. In our local park there have been plenty of biting incidents. Our dog was bitten there too by an initially friendly Staff off the lead with a happy/friendly female owner.
[quote=hora ]he was the one with a dog under control
So the owner ordered it to bite?
It was an animal on a lead. By the sounds of it the OPs dog approached it not under control.
My dog was fine however on a lead if someone approached with a large dog I'd advise them he might turn tetchy. Should he have been in a straight jacket? Animals can be unpredictable at the best of times as I found twice.
[quote=hora ]It was an animal on a lead.
Yes, and?
Animals can be unpredictable
...
Why did you part quote taking a line out of context?
Not everyone will agree with you.
I think hora's offering to fix the little Vizsla's injuries. Or something.
[quote=hora ]Why did you part quote taking a line out of context?
Not everyone will agree with you.
I'm not sure how any context changes that, and whilst people might not agree with me, I still feel it worth pointing out logical flaws in their arguments.
Do I need to be more explicit in pointing out that something which is unpredictable isn't really under control?
It was an animal on a lead. By the sounds of it the OPs dog approached it not under control.
My dog was fine however on a lead if someone approached with a large dog I'd advise them he might turn tetchy. Should he have been in a straight jacket? Animals can be unpredictable at the best of times as I found twice.
There I posted my post again with context left in for you.
Chill out.
In my opinion........
How many bites would constitute an attack, is two enough?
possibly, possibly not. It's not possible to say, it depends on how it happened. If a dog approached, got a warning nip to back off and then came back and got a second warning nip. That's still not an attack in my opinion. If it gave a warning nip which was heeded and the dog backs off, only for the other to then chase the other dog down to bite it again, now the other dog has become the aggressor.
Is it different because it bit another dog, or is it also OK for a dog to bite a human who gets too close and upsets it so much that it needs to exert its dominance, so long as it only bites once?
Yes, it is different. Dogs can and should be trained to not bite humans. In turn, humans are conditioned to recognise a dog's warning (the snarling, teeth baring) and should back off. I believe it's actually healthy for a dog to behave like that rather than immediately go for someone. If the warning isn't heeded then the dog may well escalate with a snap or a nip. Neither of which are acceptable, but they are understandable if you put yourself in the dogs position.
The way my dogs have been trained is that if they do growl or snarl at an approach, I will back off but then calmly and firmly tell the dog 'No!' and exert my authority over it in that way, before then doing whatever it was that caused the issue in the first place.
The issue arises with young creatures of both species who don't yet know how to behave with a dog and don't recognise the signs. A puppy learns by finding out the hard way, as the OP's puppy has. A child has to be protected more vigorously; hence my children don't approach a dog they don't know, and I won't let children approach my dog until I am with her and then they can approach in a way in which she doesn't feel threatened. If a dog can't be trained and controlled in this way then yes there is a fair argument to say it should be muzzled, but the nip to an over boisterous puppy to tell it to back off is a world away from attacking a human.
And while we're at it. No matter how well trained and conditioned a dog is, they all have the propensity to bite out of fear, pain, provocation, and yes even dominance / territorially. We'd like it to not be so but it is. A well trained dog will warn first (and ideally several times and try to avoid the confrontation) but push it far enough into a corner and it will react. It's a fact. But that is then not the dog's problem, it's the human's problem for pushing it that far or allowing it to be pushed that far.
Oh and whilst we're clarifying things, can I confirm that you also don't think the dog which bit was out of control?
No, i don't think it was, at least not by my definition of out of control. I think possibly it could have been controlled [u]better[/u] than it was, but it's not a binary thing. It certainly wasn't dangerously out of control, if that's where you're going.
suck it up I'm afraid. My dog always runs up to other dogs ... some want to play, some have a snap at her. Its my dogs fault entirely (well its also kind of mine for not having her on the lead I guess) but you can hardly blame the owner whos dog was minding his own business... and on a lead.
Your pups probably learned a lesson..hopefully she gets well soon!
I've got pictures of the owner and dog, video of him admitting it was his dog and refusing to pass on details.
People do this? I think I'd be refusing to pass on details too as I'd got into an altercation with a crazy stalker nerd.
I hope your dog heals well; I strongly suspect he will have moved on and forgotten about it long before you.
Hopefully he'll remember it enough to know that next time he runs at a dog he doesn't know and shoves his face into that dog's space, he might get bitten. Because then this will have been worth it.
The way my dogs have been trained is that if they do growl or snarl at an approach, I will back off but then calmly and firmly tell the dog 'No!' and exert my authority over it in that way, before then doing whatever it was that caused the issue in the first place.
WTF are you talking about?
Don't agree with that at all. Dogs should be allowed to socialise. Dangerous ones could be that way because they weren't socialised properly as pups.
dogs can socialise on the lead too you know. owners that let their dog come up to mine always get annoyed because he barks at them and with him being a GSD its my fault. It means I have to deal with the dog just because other owners are selfish ****ers
Eh? Yes, I know dogs can socialise on a lead. I also know that many dogs "on lead" aren't as happy to socialise with dogs off lead. All owners act the same? Thats odd. If my dog starts to go near a dog on a lead, I call her back, certainly don't get "annoyed".
OK, say my dog has something they shouldn't have that you want to take off them.
If you go up to them and look like you're going to take it. Ideally, you'd want them to just give it up no questions asked, but sometimes that doesn't happen if she's decided it's particularly high value, and if she isn't happy about it then she'll give you a warning growl.
If you then continue in, she's warned you, the next thing she might do is a proper growl with bared teeth.
If you then continue in again, after having been warned twice, then she might snap at you.
This is not acceptable; but I can understand the dog's position and both parties need to learn how to deal with it.
So, after the warning growl I'll tell her with commands she has been trained and understands (eg: Leave) and tone of voice that it isn't happening how she wants it to, and because she understands her position in the hierarchy, she'll back down. And then i can take away whatever it was that caused the issue in the first place.
If I, or anyone else just marched up and without warning or discussion took away something that she feels isn't there to be taken away, then she might react badly and snap immediately. That's absolutely not acceptable, hence why I want her to warn first.
I'd far rather have a dog that growls to warn you, than a dog that just snaps as a first response. I don't believe growling is bad in that respect, and while you can train a dog to be more accepting of these situations, you don't want to punish a dog for giving you a verbal warning and remove it from their options.
[reality - it makes my dog sound like a problem, she isn't. We can take food, toys, socks - she's obsessed with socks - away from her with no fuss. The only thing she's recently got possessive over was a dead vole she found on a walk. My wife walked up to see what she had and the dog growled to tell her to back off. She told the dog 'leave!' and swapped it for a treat and the situation was over, just how it should be]
My tuppence worth - the OP dog was not on a lead and the other dog's owner warned him that his dog wouldn't like it yet the OP made no effort to move his dog away.
Being the owner of a 6 month old puppy myself (which I am currently training off a lead) I still put her back on her lead as soon as I see a dog in the distance so I can be in control of her. When she approaches other dogs I always ensure that she is straining on the lead so I have her under full control and able to pull her away at the first sign of trouble.
And just like the OPs story, I have had some people warn me that their dog isn't very good around puppies so I always ensure she is moved immediately away.
So two things were learned IMO:
1 - The puppy learned that not all other dogs want to be his friend
2 - The owner learned to keep his puppy under better control around other dogs
Off his lead
That's as far as I got reading this thread. You know what usually follows, it's probably justified.
How many more pages? That's what I need to know.