[Closed] pull ups.

Facing away is harder.

Away is harder. That's working your triceps. Towards you is biceps. I think your biceps are capable of more. But I'm guessing really.

Try it and find out?

Palms away (especially wide grip) engages your lats more than palms facing, which (mostly) works the biceps.

Here you go:

[img] [/img]

The letters are muscle groups: http://www.exrx.net/Lists/Directory.html

Chin up = palms facing you
Pull up = palms facing away

Both down wider than you think.

A perfect pull up appears to be using some apparatus.

Palms away (especially wide grip) engages your lats more than palms facing, which (mostly) works the biceps.

No it doesn't, pull up with palms facing you grip shoulder width apart, pull the elbows back to lift your body weight utilizes virtually nothing but your lats, everything else is just gym myths.

Rotating your wrist changes the part of the range in which you are using biceps. Muscles are stronger in the middle of their range. It's as simple as that.

Muscles worked doing pull ups:

Target

Latissimus Dorsi

Synergists

Brachialis
Brachioradialis
Biceps Brachii
Teres Major
Deltoid, Posterior
Infraspinatus
Teres Minor
Rhomboids
Levator Scapulae
Trapezius, Lower
Trapezius, Middle
Pectoralis Minor

Dynamic Stabilizers

Triceps, Long Head

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/LatissimusDorsi/BWPullup.html

Muscles worked doing chin ups:

Target

Latissimus Dorsi

Synergists

Brachialis
Brachioradialis
Teres Major
Deltoid, Posterior
Rhomboids
Levator Scapulae
Trapezius, Lower
Trapezius, Middle
Pectoralis Major, Sternal
Pectoralis Minor

Dynamic Stabilizers

Biceps Brachii
Triceps, Long Head

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/LatissimusDorsi/BWUnderhandChinup.html

The graph i posted above is from this [url= http://search.proquest.com/docview/818561155?accountid=12860&title=SURFACE+ELECTROMYOGRAPHIC+ACTIVATION+PATTERNS+AND+ELBOW+JOINT+MOTION+DURING+A+PULL-UP%2C+CHIN-UP%2C+OR+PERFECT-PULLUP%28TM%29+ROTATIONAL+EXERCISE#.UDEr6stPMtA.email ]paper[/url]

See my problem with those lists of muscles being used - well there are two problems without even thinging about them. 1/ one of the hardest things about doing chin ups or pull ups is gripping the bar - they have included no muscles that can grip the bar. 2/ the amount of humeral head control with either exercise is huge. They have missed out most of the rotator cuff muscles in those lists.

Be careful what you read about exercise. The bulk of stuff written on the subject deserves to be in the bin.

glupton1976 - Member
See my problem with those lists of muscles being used - well there are two problems without even thinging about them. 1/ one of the hardest things about doing chin ups or pull ups is gripping the bar - they have included no muscles that can grip the bar. 2/ the amount of humeral head control with either exercise is huge. They have missed out most of the rotator cuff muscles in those lists.

Be careful what you read about exercise. The bulk of stuff written on the subject deserves to be in the bin.

So you're saying the list is missing stuff, not that the ones listed are wrong?

This [url= http://search.proquest.com/docview/818561155?accountid=12860&title=SURFACE+ELECTROMYOGRAPHIC+ACTIVATION+PATTERNS+AND+ELBOW+JOINT+MOTION+DURING+A+PULL-UP%2C+CHIN-UP%2C+OR+PERFECT-PULLUP%28TM%29+ROTATIONAL+EXERCISE#.UDEr6stPMtA.email ]paper[/url] suggests the myth that biceps are used much more in chins and pulls is exaggerated.

MTFU and do some.

What I'm saying is that if you take any bodyweight exercise you could argue that pretty much any muscle in the body was used as a synergist. Take the diaphragm for example - synergist in absolutely everything.

Cant access your link - it's hidden behind the login page.

post the ref please.

Main difference is that palms facing towards you are largely pointless in real life, whereas palms facing away from you are quite handy e.g. climbing through a loft hatch with no ladder, rock climbing, climbing a wall, etc.

Obviously what you really should be doing is getting a hang board and doing finger only pull ups....

glupton has it. do ten, then a few negatives, and you'll find [i]everything[/i] hurts the following day...

Obviously what you really should be doing is getting a hang board and doing finger only pull ups...

campus board for the win, all this gym bunny stuff is for the terminally weak and pathetic 😀

SURFACE ELECTROMYOGRAPHIC ACTIVATION PATTERNS AND ELBOW JOINT MOTION DURING A PULL-UP, CHIN-UP, OR PERFECT-PULLUP(TM) ROTATIONAL EXERCISE
Youdas, James W; Amundson, Collier L; Cicero, Kyle S; Hahn, Justin J; Harezlak, David T; et al. Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research24. 12 (Dec 2010): 3404-14.
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Abstract (summary)
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This study compared a conventional pull-up and chin-up with a rotational exercise using Perfect*Pullup(TM) twisting handles. Twenty-one men (24.9 ± 2.4 years) and 4 women (23.5 ± 1 years) volunteered to participate. Electromyographic (EMG) signals were collected with DE-3.1 double-differential surface electrodes at a sampling frequency of 1,000 Hz. The EMG signals were normalized to peak activity in the maximum voluntary isometric contraction (MVIC) trial and expressed as a percentage. Motion analysis data of the elbow were obtained using Vicon Nexus software. One-factor repeated measures analysis of variance examined the muscle activation patterns and kinematic differences between the 3 pull-up exercises. Average EMG muscle activation values (%MVIC) were as follows: latissimus dorsi (117-130%), biceps brachii (78-96%), infraspinatus (71-79%), lower trapezius (45-56%), pectoralis major (44-57%), erector spinae (39-41%), and external oblique (31-35%). The pectoralis major and biceps brachii had significantly higher EMG activation during the chin-up than during the pull-up, whereas the lower trapezius was significantly more active during the pull-up. No differences were detected between the Perfect*Pullup(TM) with twisting handles and the conventional pull-up and chin-up exercises. The mean absolute elbow joint range of motion was 93.4 ± 14.6°, 1 00.6 ± 14.5°, and 99.8 ± 11.7° for the pull-up, chin-up, and rotational exercise using the Perfect*Pullup(TM) twisting handles, respectively. For each exercise condition, the timing of peak muscle activation was expressed as a percentage of the complete pull-up cycle. A general pattern of sequential activation occurred suggesting that pull-ups and chin-ups were initiated by the lower trapezius and pectoralis major and completed with biceps brachii and latissimus dorsi recruitment. The Perfect*Pullup(TM) rotational device does not appear to enhance muscular recruitment when compared to the conventional pull-up or chin-up.

Other than as a stabilizer triceps are barely used in either a palm towards or palm away pull-up. They do target muscles and connective tissues slightly differently though.

The main fact is the positioning of the bones (ulna/radius), they essentially go from running parallel to overlapping, so muscles don't pull along their strongest plane when pulling up palms away.

Just grasp your wrist with the other hand and flip your other hand over and back a few times, you'll feel what I'm trying to explain.

HTH

Kev

Edit: I guess the quantitive effect this has on the muscles is explained in one of the previous threads above.......

The pectoralis major and biceps brachii had significantly higher EMG activation during the chin-up than during the pull-up, whereas the lower trapezius was significantly more active during the pull-up.

People in the gym do pull up and chin ups on a back day not incorporate them into arm days.

i just looked at the pictures.

People in the gym end up making themselves look like freaks though.

Freaks in what way? I ride my bike and go gym 4 x a week. They dedicate there time to that sport as we do to cycling. Go training with someone who is into lifting heavy weights and see what dedication it takes 😉

OP might as well have said: "Argument about pull-ups - go!".
"MTFU" is not an answer if "what's the difference?" is the question!
You're a funny lot 🙄

I loves them - every gym session starts with 33 wide arm chin ups, 33 ring dips and 33 ring leg raises.

Chin ups are definately harder, I don't care to much for the medical explanation above....how the hell you can complicate something as simple as picking something up as much as people on here is beyond me.

They're called heaves and any which don't result in chest hitting bar won't be counted 😛

+1 Wrecker and you got to drop to a straight arm regardless of trashing your elbows......grrrr

Yep kev, arms must be fully extended......or won't be counted. None of this Kipping bollocks.

tony24 - the two most common ways they make themselves look like freaks are a) only ever working their chest. leading to their shoulders being pulled in and forwards because their back muscles cant cope with the tihtness across the chest and b) only doing upper body work so they end up looking like pigeons - i.e. skinny legs.

Hey hey I thought this was a question about nappies vs pull ups!

Never thought I'd have so many answers!
thanks,though I felt a bit of a troll.
I do 50 a day,I find the palms away easier,though it's harder to grip the bar.
I dunno if my technique could be better,but I find it easier to do sit ups and then pull ups rather than the other way round.
(you can keep on fightin').