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Gentlemen. Choose your weapons:
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LOL Probably fair, but I'm sure you'll appreciate why it raises the temperature of ones pish a tad. <edit> Personally I do get a bit fed up of not being allowed an opinion, and the wielding of the PC'ness solution at every possible instance. Regardless of whethere its appropriate or not.
On a plus note- the man-mountain had a nice/tasteful groom attire
I like the way he took that tasteful suit off at the first opportunity and wore a vest for the rest of the day.
affluent by southern UK standards
Berm Bandit
See what you did there? You lost the argument before it even began. What you are saying is that your a slow, soft, middle-aged, shandy drinking southerner more accustomed to Saveloy than Saville Row with a penchant for 'world travel' in Norfolk?
efinsafety
Really? The reality here is that people have an opinion. Lack of respect for the individual reality is simply that, lack of respect. We all have differing life experiences which allow each of us to view the world in different ways. Understanding and accepting each others opinions is what makes us human. Lack of understanding makes us less so.reality
Norfolk????? Flaming ~ NORFOLK????? the land of 6 toed sister love??
How very dare you.... Suffolkish if you don't mind..... the shandy swilling, bedwetting soft southerner bits probably fair enough, but one has ones standards don't you know.....
Bleeding Norfolk...... full of cheating, (more dives than a Chinese fishermans cormorant), Grant Holt types........ CHRIST! 😕
Must admit I watched this too....
Couldn't help but think as others have said, how on earth do they afford to have so many kids / pay for such OTT weddings and secondly all the virtues the young girls seemed to be spouting didn't really fit with what they were wearing and behaving like in front of the camera.
Very odd.
The financial (amongst other) aspect confused me too. The 15 year old girl was shown shopping for a dress costing up to £300, which she will only wear once and she attends up to 15 weddings a year. Conservatively, that's £3-4K a year just on a dress for one female. Presumably her mother and other female siblings need to be similarly attired. Daddy must be rather affluent but strangely there seemed little mention of how this is achieved!
Maybe in future episodes...........yeah right 🙄
I too saw and wondered the same thing. But if you start by thinking of ways this might be possible, and don't limit yourself, you start to see that benefit cheating is not the only possible explanation. AS i mentioned earlier, Caravans are really cheap, lots of the community live in caravans so there is far less money spent on mortgages and rental. The are a tight knit community, so maybe everyone chips in a bit. The virtues didn't seem to fit with the clothes, but maybe you shouldn't judge a book by it's cover (or lack of).
Thieving gypsy earns 70k a year from various manual jobs and keeps it all without letting HMRC know, net loss to the treasury say 30k
Newspaper magnate has regular headlines deriding thieving gypsys for tax avoidance and irregualr lifestyle ensuring fuel to fire middle Englands hatred - Has most personal and significant corporate income in tax haven net loss to treasury several tens of millions.
There's a pub down the road from our office that get a few of the Irish travellers in, they always have massive wads of cash [2" dia sort of wads]
Probably saved from not having to pay rent 🙂
you start to see that benefit cheating is not the only possible explanation.
You're right, other explanations are:
Theiving
Tax evasion
Illegal gambling
.....
🙄 Tongue firmly in cheek
Well it seems that Big Fat Gypsy weddings had exactly the desired effect.
They are all theives you know. It's a disgrace.
Well it seems that Big Fat Gypsy weddings had exactly the desired effect.They are all theives you know. It's a disgrace.
Oh get off your high horse. In similar circumstances, if watched by a tax officer it would be sufficient to get me an estimated Tax demand, whereby I would have not only have to prove where the money came from, but that I had paid tax on it too. Are you seriously suggesting that these people are any different to you or me and should therefore be treated differently?
All of that apart, I certainly have not said that it was not genuine properly earnt and taxed income, merely expressed surprise that the wedding was affordable. That is no different to my view on the ridiculous amounts lavished by all sorts of people on their weddings. Its just that this thread isn't about all sorts of people, merely the people featured in this show. Which I for one acknowledged is in all liklihood not representative.
70k a year from various manual jobs
Jeez! I should take up manual work!
Unless you mean writing manuals?
[2" dia sort of wads]
? Huge coins??
I'm not on a high horse. Seems to me that nothing in this show suggests that the participants are tax dogers or any thing else.
Comments like all the gypsies I know have huge rolls of cash and so on are just hatemongering. I don't need huge rolls of cash as I have a credit card and so on, maybe they don't. Maybe they work as builders and get paid cash as a preference as bank accounts are hard to come by if you are transient. Maybe just maybe they live in houses, pay tax on most of their income and although they have their ways perhaps they are not all scum?
Just maybe like.
I'm off now as I've just seen a black man and I want to buy some weed.
Comments like all the gypsies I know have huge rolls of cash and so on are just hatemongering
I didn't say that did I?
I said the Irish travellers in the pub down the road all had huge wads of cash
I said the Irish travellers in the pub down the road all had huge wads of cash
Perhaps so, but i bet you don't see them there very often.
Fair enouugh you didn't. My point still stands.
Comments like all the gypsies I know have huge rolls of cash
I don't think thats what was said, and it definately wasn't what I said. What you are doing is twisting the words to suit your predjudice.
Its entirely anecdotal, but my experience of travellers is also like that i.e. wads of cash. That is not hatemongering, its simply what my experience is. Thankfully, I'm intelligent enough not to presume that my limited experience is representative of all, albeit its a 100% strike rate to date.
Perhaps so, but i bet you don't see them there very often.
Hard to say, they are there at least every Sunday evening though
Hard to say if you see them?
Is that a visual or verbal problem?
I'm off now as I've just seen a black man and I want to buy some weed
Another quality LOL moment from this thread it just keeps giving.
I did not watch the programme as I had still not read my magazine and I just had to see how the marriage was going with that Jordan lass and that fella she married ... I feel certain that the folk on that programme did not have this kind of class about them or half the dignity of this understated couple.
Oi, Bermbandit, did you read this bit?
Some of what you say is reasonable.
Hmm?
I've been travelling in the Indian subcontinent consistently for 25 years or so
And I've been part of an Asian family my entire life. So who wins here?
What I took umbrage with was this comment:
Fellas can shag anything that moves, get falling down drunk, beat their women, generally treat them like dirt, girls must look girly, remain celibate, do as they are told and not drink.
Whilst I don't deny that this happens, such behaviour is not generally condoned or acceptable within the communities/cultures of which you speak. Nor is it the 'norm'. What pisses me off is the negative portrayal of such cultures by yourself and others, and the lack of appreciation of the positive aspects. Such behaviour is not limited to 'Indian Subcontinent' cultures, but can be found in cultures all over the World, including 'British' White Middle Class communities. But you don't seem to make much mention of that.
In 'discussions' such as this, it's common to see people point out negative aspects of a culture, without much recognition of the fact that these aren't exclusive to the cultures under scrutiny.
Oh and by the way, my research on the subject of travelling people formed part of a thesis.
What a coincidence! I also presented academic work about transient cultures/communities, as well as marginalised communities/cultures, as part of my studies. I've also spent time with people from 'travelling' communities.
Point 2: My wifes comment on the affordability or otherwise would I suspect be based on the fact that I'm a company director, we own our home outright, she is a highly paid manager, and that we are fairly affluent by southern UK standards, but would nonetheless baulk at the amount being expended on dresses and limousines for a wedding.
So, little more than assumption, then. And perhaps a lack of ability to understand that other cultures have differing values. So, you're wealthy etc etc blah blah blah, and wouldn't spend so much on a wedding, but what the tomato does that have to do with the choices others have a right to make? Maybe other people might think you're mad to do the jobs you do, spend so much on your house, lifestyle, etc.
I know folk with pots of money who think me crazy for spending so much money on bikes, yet think nothing of spending loads on a bottle of wine, or a meal, or a Phillipe Starck juicer. Funny old World, in't it?
Quite impressed by your response, but still think your comments are those of someone who assumes their own values are superior/somehow more 'correct' than others.
Easy to criticise others, but how about looking at yourself, and have a think about how imperfect you might be, in the eyes of others.
Hard to say if you see them?Is that a visual or verbal problem?
Hard to say as in - hard to say if they're there mon-sat as I go there on a Sunday only & as the said pub is 200 miles away other days, I have trouble seeing it - my eyes aren't as sharp as they once were
😀
How do they move the pub??
Some fellas come along, offer to build a Tarmac road cheap [for cash in hand] then they wheel it down that
Well, that makes sense, otherwise how would travellers be able to go to the same pub every Sunday.
how would travellers be able to go to the same pub every Sunday.
Travel?
1. Oi, Bermbandit, did you read this bit?
Some of what you say is reasonable.
Hmm?
Yep and I wasn't terribly interested by it. Pretty patronsing in the general context of how you perform IMHO. I don't need your affirmation.
I've been travelling in the Indian subcontinent consistently for 25 years or so
And I've been part of an Asian family my entire life. So who wins here?
I wasn’t aware of the contest, but in the context of your previous and dare I say somewhat patronising assumption I feel it would be reasonable to claim that point, were I of that nature.
What I took umbrage with was this comment:
Fellas can shag anything that moves, get falling down drunk, beat their women, generally treat them like dirt, girls must look girly, remain celibate, do as they are told and not drink.
Whilst I don't deny that this happens, such behaviour is not generally condoned or acceptable within the communities/cultures of which you speak. Nor is it the 'norm'. What pisses me off is the negative portrayal of such cultures by yourself and others, and the lack of appreciation of the positive aspects. Such behaviour is not limited to 'Indian Subcontinent' cultures, but can be found in cultures all over the World, including 'British' White Middle Class communities. But you don't seem to make much mention of that.
I have no doubt the behaviour is replicated elsewhere, but I don’t actually have much if any knowledge of that, so only referred to that of which I am aware. No doubt had I broadened the point, you or someone like you who seem to specialize in nitpicking would have picked me up on it. I could not then have defended the point or been able to claim the “win” apparently.
In 'discussions' such as this, it's common to see people point out negative aspects of a culture, without much recognition of the fact that these aren't exclusive to the cultures under scrutiny.
As above
Oh and by the way, my research on the subject of travelling people formed part of a thesis.
What a coincidence! I also presented academic work about transient cultures/communities, as well as marginalised communities/cultures, as part of my studies. I've also spent time with people from 'travelling' communities.
In which case it does rather pour piss on you earlier wikipedia comment, also patronizing and designed to intimidate IMHO
Point 2: My wifes comment on the affordability or otherwise would I suspect be based on the fact that I'm a company director, we own our home outright, she is a highly paid manager, and that we are fairly affluent by southern UK standards, but would nonetheless baulk at the amount being expended on dresses and limousines for a wedding.
So, little more than assumption, then. And perhaps a lack of ability to understand that other cultures have differing values. So, you're wealthy etc etc blah blah blah, and wouldn't spend so much on a wedding, but what the tomato does that have to do with the choices others have a right to make? Maybe other people might think you're mad to do the jobs you do, spend so much on your house, lifestyle, etc.
There you go, making assumptions and jumping to conclusions again. We all have value systems, which we base our judgments and decisions on. At no point did I suggest anything other than surprise at how people could afford such lavish celebrations. I even went on to expand that to other groups, but that was not relevant to this thread initially, its about the Gypsy wedding documentary!!
I know folk with pots of money who think me crazy for spending so much money on bikes, yet think nothing of spending loads on a bottle of wine, or a meal, or a Phillipe Starck juicer. Funny old World, in't it?
Yep, strangley my Mrs being one of them, but like I said its not really relevant here on this thread is it?
Quite impressed by your response, but still think your comments are those of someone who assumes their own values are superior/somehow more 'correct' than others.
Patronsing again ? When on earth did I say anything other than my opinon? I think I have said several times that I don’t claim to have the answers, total moral authority or anything of the sort. Actually, I was just commenting on a TV programme that I watched along with several other people on this forum. My views, not necessarily correct for others, simply mine. Personally I think this forum is greatly reduced by the constant nitpicking, holier than thou contributions of people such as yourself. Simply amusing yourself by taking some sort of self proclaimed morale stance to belittle others is in my view similar to pulling the legs off spiders. It says more about the person doing it than it does their victims!
Easy to criticise others, but how about looking at yourself, and have a think about how imperfect you might be, in the eyes of others.
And how about you do the same? I’m comfortable in my skin, (yeah yeah I know….its a turn of phrase with no racist overtones before you start!). May I suggest a similar period of introspection might be as helpful if not more so for you?
p3wned!
3 cheers for Berm Bandit
Bravo.
interesting show. (edit.... wrote loads but deleted it in case i get told off by elfin)
So, my original statement still stands then. You and your wife made assumptions and judgements about people whose culture you have little knowledge of.
You can type out millions of words in response, but it still doesn't change things. Your tone comes across as sneering and condescending. You chose to ignore any of the positive aspects of Gypsy culture, and instead focus on the negative. Who are you to judge? You are better than them, because...?
p3wned!
Don't be so silly. I am un-pwnable.
Phil; feel free to say what you like mate. It's a public forum. 😕
I am un-pwnable.
Pah! The BermBandit has pots of money he could buy and sell you and your Trotteresque flat with one phone call.
You can type out millions of words in response, but it still doesn't change things
That I believe is your domain, my posts tend to simply quote yours back at you, with short comments, thus the appearance of a million words.
Would it be fair to say that this the equivalent of "its my ball and I'm going home"
BB; your comments came across to me as sneering, condescending and culturally ignorant. You've presented a good case for your defence, yet I still see little evidence that you [i]don't[/i] see yourself as somehow superior to others whose culture, as I'll say once more, you appear to have little knowledge of other than what you've seen on a TV programme.
I myself have little knowledge of Gypsy culture, yet I don't go making sneering statements loaded with negativity towards them. Instead, I accept that all cultures have their own problems and negative aspects, and try to focus on the positive aspects. I find that helps me get on better with all sorts of people.
I hope you can understand my point of view, without getting all worked up about it.
X
Now, how about a bit of Gypsy music?
[quote=elfin]What a coincidence! I also presented academic work about transient cultures/communities, as well as marginalised communities/cultures, as part of my studies. I've also spent time with people from 'travelling' communities
[quote=elfin]I myself have little knowledge of Gypsy culture
Are we talking about Gypsies or travellers now?
Don't. I'm too confuddled. 🙁
BB; your comments came across to me as sneering, condescending and culturally ignorant
In the playground the correct move at this point would have been to flounce off home with the ball, perhaps with a nonchalent flick of the hair. Definately a bad idea to continue the argument at this stage, especially with slightly less than witty insults.
especially with slightly less than witty [b]insults[/b]
❓
So, if I don't agree with someone's views, I should just burger off, is that what you're saying? That I shouldn't respond at all?
I'm still trying to work out whose ball it is... 😕
So, if I don't agree with someone's views, I should just burger off, is that what you're saying? That I shouldn't respond at all?
Pretty sure I didn't say that, and here we go again trying to put words into or an interpretation on someones words that simply isn't there for the sake of argument or worse self engrandismen. Leave it I'm not worth it!
Best I could find. Skip to [b]2mins 14secs[/b] please