[Closed] Protests at Soldiers Parading in Luton

They can join the deportation queue too!

Deport them to where exactly ? Most were probably born in Luton.
I think the worst punishment would be to lock them in a cage and let you offer them political enlightenment.

On the one hand, I think anyone protesting to soldiers about a war (unjust or not) is rather missing the point. The soldiers don't decide where to fight, the politicians do. The troops just do their duty (and do so with admirable courage).

On my more liberal (and devil's advocate) hand, would you also think it so deplorable to hold a "Free Tibet" protest in front of Chinese troops?

On my more liberal (and devil's advocate) hand, would you also think it so deplorable to hold a "Free Tibet" protest in front of Chinese troops?

Good point, Graham, but I would imagine a Free Tibet campaign wouldn't call for the death and beheading of the Chinese soldiers.

Hmmm... agreed, that is somewhat more extreme and less defensible.

There isn't any mention of death or beheading on the pictures of the banners they are carrying, or in the Guardian/Telegraph articles, but I haven't watched the videos so I don't know what they were actually shouting.

Graham, sorry, not really clear enough! I was more pointing out the general demeanour of this sort of protest, not this one specifically (Although there may have been such calls)

Looking at the protest banners etc - "go to hell", "murderers" etc - not really an effective anti-war protest as has been pointed out the soldiers are only doing what they are told. But they do have a right to protest - where does this queue start?

Ah fair enough.

But a quick Google shows there are "extremist" elements in the Free Tibet and Tibetan Independence Movement, despite the fact the vast majority are peaceful and led by peaceful Buddhist ideology.

(again, I'm really not condoning these protests. I'm just trying to see both sides of the story through increasingly one-sided media and opinion).

We are talking about protests in the UK. China is not a free country and protestors there usually get squashed, however justifiable the protest is. A "Free Tibet" campaign here would never be directed at a British troop parade, it would be directed at those who have influence - politicians.

My answer to the deportation question is simple: They can go to any country where their Muslim radical views are tolerated.

Being born in a free country like Britain is a privilidge. If you don't stand for freedom and tolerance and want to impose a whole different way of life that restricts this - get out!

If you don't stand for freedom and tolerance and want to impose a whole different way of life that restricts this - get out

Ironic? Just who is being intolerant here?

Yes, but it is just an analogy. IF you heard that a handful of "Free Tibet" protesters had shown up at a troop parade in China then you would probably be siding with the protesters. You probably wouldn't be thinking about how bad that must make the soldiers feel.

If you don't stand for freedom and tolerance and want to impose a whole different way of life that restricts this - get out!

LOL.

Cos nothing says "freedom and tolerance" like deporting people who don't agree with you. 🙂

Snap GrahamS

(glad you enjoyed your hol btw)

The cops apparently passed approval on this "demonstration", IMO this demo should never have been santioned by the authorities. If it hadn't been santioned the demonstrators could have been removed before the parade got anywhere near them. On a more cynical note if this had happened the press would more than likley have put a very different spin on things.

Personally - I'm not prepared to tolerate anyone who is intolerant 😉

**** it, one minute we're whinging like children that we're not allowed to protest enough, then when the busies allow one (that a lot of us find distasteful) we're saying it shouldn't have been sanctioned? Talk about wanting to have our cake and eat it....

Personally - I'm not prepared to tolerate anyone who is intolerant

LOL, how intolerant of you uplink

My answer to the deportation question is simple: They can go to any country where their Muslim radical views are tolerated.

Being born in a free country like Britain is a privilidge. If you don't stand for freedom and tolerance and want to impose a whole different way of life that restricts this - get out!

You have to be taking the piss, we believe in free speech as long as its the what I want to hear otherwise I believe you should be deported LOL.

Yes they protested in the *wrong place*, but have you thougth about why they have to protest in front of the soldiers rather than the decision makers?

Perhaps the question should be - if a demonstration affects the morale of a country or causes disharmony during a time of "conflict" then should it be allowed? And if it does then how do you deal with those who are opposed to the governemnts policy?

in this case i just think its a shame, as they wont be doing the muslim community as a whole any good at all.

im sure it doesnt represent the feelings of the whole muslim community in the UK - but as ever its the loudest ones that get noticed, things like this just cause more friction and intolerance.

I was more pointing out the general demeanour of this sort of protest

Wow, you mean protests by Muslims? They're all the same aren't they.

What I haven't read anywhere is why there was such a parade through the centre of Luton in the first place, I've not seen any other such events, are they common?

to be fair Grumm, i think he was commenting more on the aggressive style of the protest rather than the people involed, i may be wrong though...

Was it maybe a victory parade for our brave boys now they have brought freedom and democracy to Iraq?

Indeed I was, MrC.

thought so : )

Quote from that article in the C0ckograph:

Mr Ahmed works for Menzies Aviation and has access to secure areas within the Bedfordshire airport.

More indefensible journalism from this excuse of a newspaper. Why don't they just change the logo to white on a red background and cut the page size in half.

I suppose some wet liberal is going to say they had a right to protest. They can join the deportation queue too!

OK then i will be the "wet liberal".

They have a right to protest which is far more than they would have had in the islamic state that most of them desire to live in.

What was wrong in my opinion is that the police did not remove the offensive banners under the "intent to cause racial incitement" legislation.

And of course the protestors should have targeted the politicians instead of the soldiers who have shown great bravery in carrying out their job.

Don't read then, Darcy. Or, would you just change the record? 'tis rather dull.

"What was wrong in my opinion is that the police did not remove the offensive banners under the "intent to cause racial incitement" legislation"

very good point

Didn't we have this one last week already? Were you in a pineapple, under the sea?

Well, CFH, I rather wouldn't, but I thought I'd just click the link as OP had put it up there. I've always know the 'graph is shite but I hadn't realised the journalism had sunk so low recently. If anything my brief reading has comforted me in the knowledge that I am right again (it gets boring after a while). And as for records, dull and changing...well, you can talk my Flashy Friend.

What were the offensive banners that were 'causing racial incitement'?

Intersting that this has come up again after all that has been said the other day. It just shows how misguided a protest can be (made to be). The protesters in my view have sent out a negative message about themselves and ended up clouding the issue that they feel so strongly about. If they had protested in the very same manner in front of the various cabinet minister that started the war (Blair, Straw, Brown)it's possible that they would not have got such a negative press. However the police would never allow such a protest, so they end up being allowed to protest at those who cannot change anything. The problem that we have now is that it is very difficult to make your protest in the right place (parliment square/westminter). Our politicians have almost become invisible to us when there are concerns to voice.
Just to make it clear, I think that our forces are a pretty good bunch in general and thank anyone of them doing there job at the moment. Also I think that people should be able to protest even if it's a bit distastful (it was to me), the public has brains and can make it's own mind up. One day it could be us out there.

What all protestors are usually looking for is exposure and to stir up a reaction. Which thanks to the ridiculous tabloid-inspired frenzy they have achieved extremely well.

cuckoo: I don't see anything even remotely "racial" on the banners pictured on the BBC site.

deadlydarcy: Cheers.

tabloid-inspired frenzy

With a little help from the 'graph too!

Where is rudeboy, when I'm in a wet liberal mood. That deportation queue does it stop at an airport or an oven? Now then Deadlydarcy, as I note on the day the Facistograph was one of the few papers not to carry the story on the front page.

People who are saying the protests were distasteful:

Can you not see that some people might also consider it distasteful to have what looks like a victory parade for soldiers who have fought in a probably illegal war for which the primary justification was found to be completely bogus, in which hundreds of thousands (millions?) of people (mostly Muslims) lost their lives? Never mind that they are allies of the American forces who have been proved to have carried out various abuses, war crimes etc.

Oh dear, here we go again....

Personally, I don't think there should have been any kind of protest, as I don't think there should have been any kind of parade. These soldiers voluntarily signed up, and have been doing their jobs. Granted, there have been acts of outstanding bravery, I'm sure, and indivuduals involved should be commended for this. But to have a public parade for the returning 'heroes' is, in my opinion, ill-judged and in very poor taste. Hundreds of thousands of peoplehave died in Iraq and Afghanistan etc, and bugger all has been achieved in Iraq, bar the removal of the regime which stood in the way of Western control of oil resources. Iraq, a previously progressive and advanced nation, has been reduced to a lawless war zone, where far more innocent people are suffering than ever did under Saddam.

These soldiers are government employees, nothing else. They aren't protecting us from imminent invasion, or terrorism, or any thing. So why do they 'deserve' a parade? 'Oh, because they have a very dangerous job to do, protecting Iraqi civilians from insurgents', or whatever. Well, no-one forced them to sign up and go to Iraq, so they shoon't therefore expect a parade.

I reckon these parades are simply a way for the government to win back a bit of support, and to also polarise public opinion in some way; 'We'll have a parade, and anyone speaking out against it will be seen as unpatriotic, and the Anti-War movement will lose credibility'...

Yes, that's the truth. If you look hard enough, you might see it too.

If the armed forces want to hold any ceremonies, then perhaps they should have them in private, in military establishments, with only the families of service personnel attending. Then, they could give out their medals and stuff, without the risk of anyone 'disrespecting' the 'heroes'.

And the 'Muslim' protestors are simply misguided, bigotted hateful idiots, not much more than the BNP are.

They represent a faith which preaches peace and tolerance, no more than the extreme-right do.

Looks like a victory parade? - what are you compare it with? VE day?

A few missing the point about tolerance. People like us write a few rants on chat forums. We generally keep our thoughts to ourselves and we daren't risk making any more of a protest than blurting things out on here.

Conversely, these protestors in Luton are on the streets in person making a fuss where they know they will offend many many people. Their anger and aggression is misdirected. Yes they have the right to free speech, but it is their abuse of innocent servicemen that is totally wrong. There needs to be a limit and these people overstepped the mark.

The so called tabloid frenzy is not just a gutter press issue, it's broadsheets and the BBC too. It's about the feelings of real people. People who understand what is fair and reasonable.

The intolerance perpetuated by these groups is a real threat to our tolerant society. On those grounds it is entirley reasonable that they should not be allowed to remain here. Tolerance has it's limits.

If your views are so incompatible with a free society why stay here? Go and live where your religion and restrictions on personal freedom [u]are[/u] accepted.

The biggest problem we have is that we, the passive majority, will put up with any measure of nonsense thrown at us. There is an element that just want us to shut up and to continue to roll-over and take it. Why should we, don't we have the right to free speech too??

Yes they have the right to free speech

There needs to be a limit

From Oxford English Dictionary:

free·dom / ?fr?d?m/
• n. the power or right to act, speak, or think as one wants without hindrance or restraint

Hmmm..

Actually; you're on a wind up, aren't you, spongebob?

Naughty!

Not sure if it's in the links above but on the news the other night the reporter tracked down and interviewed one of the protesters.

Ignoring the rights and wrongs behind the reasons for going to war, this protester justified the protest as these soldiers had killed "innocents".

Now one of the outcomes of this war was the capture and "punishment" (lets not debate the outcome of that here) of a man responsible for the murder of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of "innocents".

And now in the aftermath the country (Iraq) is in the grip of a civil war as rival factions following the same ideology as these protesters, merrily blow foreign soldiers and their own fellow countrymen to kingdom come on a daily basis. I suppose it's alright though as their martyrs can look forward to a harem of virgins at the pearly gates while the soldiers have the exciting prospect of MRSA!

Perhaps a reorganisation of their priorities and perspective is in order.

....their martyrs can look forward to a harem of virgins at the pearly gates.....

[url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2002/jan/12/books.guardianreview5 ]Or perhaps a nice bowl of raisins....[/url] 😉

Yes they have the right to free speech, but it is their abuse of innocent servicemen that is totally wrong.

Hence my rhetorical point about Free Tibet protesters at a Chinese military parade, which far fewer people would feel morally indignant about.

Let's try the old Switcheroo:

Say you were living in a foreign country and that country invaded the UK with a large military presence and killed hundreds of thousands of civilians.

How would you feel when the returning troops paraded through your street?

Would you protest?