[Closed] Pro-cuts rally in London

Nail em up

Nail some sense into em

makes distasteful joke about an easy way to wipe out all of Thatchers children

Laughs distastefully at the thought of Henley on Thames being empty and all of the local burglars having their best day since the countryside 'alliance' march

RIch arseholes demanding more money for themselves and less for the sick, disabled, elderly etc - seems perfectly reasonable. 👿

easy there lefty this is what they want

Taxes have been rising but there has been very little improvement in the quality of schools, hospitals and transport provided by government. Most recently, British workers, employers, consumers, homeowners and pensioners have been hit by higher national insurance contributions, huge council tax increases, VAT hikes, and higher taxes on pension funds.

High taxes damage the British economy and our way of life is suffering as a result:economic growth is being stunted and tens of thousands of jobs are being lost to off-shoring as huge tax bills reduce incentives to work, invest and save and discourage entrepreneurship. In the long-run, higher taxes make us all poorer.

37.6 miles to Henley... bye!

There was some fat knacker interviewed on the BBC news this morning who was at pains to point out that she was a student and still attending to show her support for the cuts. She unfortunately went on to point out the only cut she didn't agree with was the rise in student fees, so really just the cuts that didn't effect her, marvelous stuff.

"Taxes have been rising but there has been very little improvement in the quality of <snip> hospitals <snip> provided by government."

They can **** right off with that, modern medicine's expensive, sure maybe waiting lists aren't shorter or hospitals aren't shinier but today hospitals keep people alive that would have died 10 years ago. There's nothing a doctor can do that's more expensive than saving a life, just think of all that medication! And the beds it takes up! My grandad got an extra 5 years, then in that 5 years other improvements got him another 5 years. But that screws up the balance sheets.

Not so long ago, someone with my hip injury would have had a half-hip replacement instantly- cheap, easy, crap. Limited physio costs because there's not much point, and after 10 years of having a crap leg you need another cheap, easy, crap hip replacement with an even worse prognosis. Instead, I got keyholed and bolted and had a recuperation time that was far longer, took more surgery, more hospital bed time, about 10 times more physio, and more long-term care. But I've got a leg that works almost like normal and'll last as long as the other one.

So anyone that says hospitals haven't got better can shove it up their cock. Not a violent man but I'll gladly take a hammer to their hips and see what they think about the NHS after.

[img] [/img]

Even with the cuts so far, we're still borrowing vast sums just to tick over the bloated public sector and benefits bills. Government borrowing is deferred taxation, so should be exceptional, not commonplace. Not going to say I'm happy with the detail of every cut, but don't see big rises in taxes as being ideal either.

About a hundred or so people turned up, apparently.

How many on the anti-cuts march again?

Around 350 people attended the event in Westminster, according to the Metropolitan Police.

midlifecrashes - Member

Even with the cuts so far, we're still borrowing vast sums just to tick over the bloated public sector and benefits bills. Government borrowing is deferred taxation, so should be exceptional, not commonplace. Not going to say I'm happy with the detail of every cut, but don't see big rises in taxes as being ideal either.

apart from none of this is true. Our public sector is similar or smaller than most similar countries remembering almost all healthcare is in the public sector unlike many countries. Our debt is not high, the deficit is not unaffordable and the cuts are now clearly holding the economy back.

Still - enjoy the idealogical dismantling of the public services won't you.

Hospitals are clearly much improved for the extra money - no doubt at all.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/may/13/uk-economy-germany-france-labour

I'm far from rich (lowest 20% of income level) but even I can see that proposed cuts do not go nearly far enough. Reducing the deficit is not what's needed, we need to eliminate it imediately and start to pay off some of the whopping debt we have.
I'd start with the welfare and education budgets. Children should be taxed, not subsidised.

It is funny how the news agenda works. A couple of hundred arrogant sociopathic no-hopers stage a protest & it gets reported by the BBC & mr saddo gets an interview on TV. I imagine that there must be loads of larger demonstrations going on every weekend throughout the country which you never otherwise hear of,

Did the Met manage to kill anyone?

I'd start with the welfare and education budgets. Children should be taxed, not subsidised

RIch arseholes demanding more money for themselves and less for the sick, disabled, elderly etc - seems perfectly reasonable.

Ok, I'll bite.

How about we cut the social help that isn't required? We (as a nation) subsidize a lot of the population that doesn't need it. I don't want to see hospital or any cuts that effect those at the poorer end of the scale, but theres a lot of people receiving benefits that are used as ciggy/holiday/booze money.

Take my next door neighbors. Both claiming incapacity benefit, just had a downstairs bathroom fitted in their 3 bedroom semi council house as they "can't get up the stairs sometimes". Mind you, how you climb on a shed roof or put up tepees with a bad back I'm unsure.

Either way, a lot of money is wasted on people who really don't need it. Lets cut that for a start. Perhaps benefits need to get more personal. Not a "Got problem a, claim amount b", but more means tested.

Did the Met manage to kill anyone?

I think they'll probably wait to see if anyone reports them first.

Around 350 people attended the event in Westminster

I've seen better attended stag and hen do's in the West End. 😆

whilst a minority of beneift claimants may do as you claim it is but nothing compared to legal tax avoidance by the ubber wealthy.

We could save a chunk of cash by not getting involved in all these wars, oh thats right we are not at war with Libya.

So, is the fact that the anti-cuts demo was attended by nearly a [i]thousand times[/i] more people an indication that the vast majority of British people don't want such drastic cuts to take place?

I'd say it is.

Either way, a lot of money is wasted on people who really don't need it.

100% agree

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/feb/24/rbs-bankers-bonuses-despite-loss

Someone in the next village to me uses her tax-credits to pay her cleaner and someone to do her ironing.
Of course it's really us paying for it.

Why ischild beneift is available to all millionaires? Also the 'average' child has cost the taxpayer £138,000 by the time they reach 16. Why should we all pay for the mistakes of those who can't learn to keep their trousers up? And pay for it we will, overpopulation is the elephant in the room for global warming, food shortages, water shortages, etc, etc. Why are we subsidising people to have children using money we don't have?!

whilst a minority of beneift claimants may do as you claim it is but nothing compared to legal tax avoidance by the ubber wealthy.

I'm not saying we shouldn't address this. Of course we should. However, that doesn't mean my point in't valid.

Also, how do you know this is a minority of benefit claimants? I know it's quite common round my way. In fact, I'm entitled to claim money, yet don't as it's not required.

I know it's quite common round my way.

how do you know?

Have you shopped your neighbours?

Also the 'average' child has cost the taxpayer £138,000 by the time they reach 16.

Why should we all pay for the mistakes of those who can't learn to keep their trousers up?

how do you know?

Erm, because I talk to people...

Have you shopped your neighbours?

Yes. Nothing's happened yet.

Why ischild beneift is available to all millionaires?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11464300

Why is child benefit available to all millionaires?

Because it is thought (and possibly research has shown?) that having universal benefits helps keep onside those whose taxes pay for the benefits. Take away universality and people start wanting their taxes ring-fenced to pay only for those services which benefit either the nation as a whole (defense, policing) or for those benefits to which they are entitled.

Erm, because I talk to people...

I once told my - curtain twitcher - neighbour I was small time drug dealer

how do you know this is a minority of benefit claimants?

I know it's quite common round my way.

Yes nothing as powerful as folk talking in pubs perhaps you could tell someoen about your detailed knowledge?

In fact, I'm entitled to claim money, yet don't as it's not required.

I once told my - curtain twitcher - neighbour I was small time drug dealer

That's nice for you, but not relevant to my post.

That's nice for you, but not relevant to my post.

Maybe not, but - like you - he believed what people told him

Getting back on topic, whilst completely ignoring the fairly successful manoeuvre by Tory cheerleaders to overcome their acute embarrassment :

Elfinsafety - Member

Around 350 people attended the event in Westminster

[b]"I've seen better attended stag and hen do's in the West End"[/b].

According to the Telegraph, quote :

[b][i]"People had travelled from across the UK to be at the demonstration."[/i][/b]

So that's 350 people from all over the UK then .......... impressive or what, eh ?

how do you know this is a minority of benefit claimants?

the majority of benefit claimants dont claim incapacity benefit is the main reason for knowing.

You don't have to be claiming incapacity benefit to be in a position of not needing the other benefits that are claimed. Let me reiterate one of my original points. I am in no way stating that benefits should be cut for people that need them to survive. But where they are used to suplement someones lifestyle, or pay for a lifestyle that doesn't involve contributing to society via work (and once again, not those that can't, but those that won't) then we need to start looking at where we're overpaying.

Yes nothing as powerful as folk talking in pubs perhaps you could tell someoen about your detailed knowledge?

I'm not sure I get your point. Could you rephrase? Certainly, I mentioned nothing about pubs.

Thanks.

You're welcome, but I fear I'm in the minority.

Maybe not, but - like you - he believed what people told him

I know the people that said it. You don't. I'm in a better position to judge who's lieing and who's not.

what people tell you is hearsay it is not evidence. This is both my point and up links point sorry we were too subtle.
You are now trying to move the goal post - change you argument to a similair but different point [ it is no longer about your neighbour but all claimants now - as you dont get subtle do you]

Well, I'm pretty sure my opinion on singletrack is going to be required to stand up in court, but your point is taken.

I would edit my post to say "imo" but it's too late now. Either way, I'm inclined to think that some of the people who I've discussed this with are telling the truth. Either that or I have to accept that all of them were lieing, and I struggle with that.

I'm not moving any goal posts, my point remains. I believe that too many people are claiming/given benefits when they're not needed. We need to address this with cuts. Please point out where I deviated from this stance.

it is no longer about your neighbour but all claimants now - as you dont get subtle do you

I'm very capable of "getting" subtle. I don't get "missing the point entirely". My original post was not about all claimants, and neither were my later ones. They were all about people that don't need to claim, but do because it's available and they can. My neighbours was an example. They chose not to work and to claim because they can. I used them as an example. Perhaps that was too subtle for you?

I'd still prefer to target cuts in benefits [I'm including tax avoidance loop-holes] on the most wealthy first before starting on those with the lowest incomes

Either that or I have to accept that all of them were lieing, and I struggle with that.

Tax evasion is around 3% of total tax liabilities, while benefit fraud accounts for 0.8% of total benefit expenditure.

I totally agree with you. 100%

However, the thread was about cuts. Not Tax avoidance. I'd agree with you on tax avoidance as well, but that would be a different thread.

Getting back on topic, £1 billion is still a lot of money to be wasting. And that's just the fraud. What about those that claim that don't need to? IMO (and it is just that) we pay more money out than we need to.

The Taxpayers Alliance demonstration just looked like a very large bus queue :

[img] [/img]

I thought this one was more honest though, and possibly better attended :

[img] [/img]

So long as we stop spending the cost of a new aircraft carrier on a new NHS or HMRC computer system that's redesigned within three months then it's fine by me.

The biggest problem we have is the ever escalating cost of living, neither the Tories nor Labour seem willing to confront this particular issue.

The biggest problem we have is the ever escalating cost of living, neither the Tories nor Labour seem willing to confront this particular issue.

Ever escalating cost of living ? ........ you mean inflation ? You think the biggest problem confronting Britain right now is inflation ?

Well have a go organising a protest against inflation in that case. I bet you stand a fair chance of getting not much less than 350 people from all over Britain to attend.

So what's your angle then Earnie?

unemployment is the biggest economic issue I would say. debt is manageable and smaller than most other countries as is deficit - and the best way to tackle that is to go for growth - see germany and france for examples

So what's your angle then Earnie?

Earnie? Is that a dig 'cause you think I earn lots of money ?

Apologies, no dig intended, just an innocent typo.