[Closed] Private ownership of firearms

One of the two chaps who got jailed for helping him I think. I don't know the answer to the next question though.

SD-253 i am glad you see this in the same light as me..
Tj always seems to think its fine.

Elfinsafety - Member

Raoul Moat didn't have gun license

Where did he get his guns from?

The same place the rest of the criminal fraternity gets them. Ilegal importations. Also it appears that there are very few illegal weapons in Britian. It appears they are "rented out" Thats why the goverment is bringing in a new law to combat it. Try listening to the news and reading newspapers (no not the Mail the times or what should be your favourite the Guardian)

And where do illegal guns come from?

eastern europe.

Jesus wept is this still going?

War is futile, but this is on another level

And where do illegal guns come from?

Isn't there a failing in the system here? I would assume that all guns were once legal.
C'mon guys a gun is for life, not just for Christmas. 🙁

The staggering hypocrasy of TandemJeremy beggers belief.

really? i thought it was a dead cert and pretty much guaranteed ❓

Elfinsafety - Member
I prefer the greater and far more macho thrill of fighting in pubs, rather than shooting something what can't fight back.

Go get a broken bottle, you don't know what you're missing.

You can prove yourself to be much more of a 'mayn' if you do so. Shooting animals is for pansies

I assume this is irony because I doubt you have the back bone to do anything of the sort

OK

I get asked by the Police whether people are mentally fit for gun licences... and one of my colleagues previously lived and worked near Hungerford where.... etc etc...

[b]TJ's[/b] offensive and casual categorisation of all gun-users as Violent Fantasists and people who are only interested in killing has sadly obscured the fact that there are real issues in gun licensing...

In the past few years I have dealt with:

A bloke who was sane but blew his brain out with a shotgun when he found he had cancer... Not nice for his wife.
Someone who became suicidal and managed to access their partners gun cabinet and almost blew their head off...
Someone who still thinks that his threat to torch someone's house should not bar him from holding a licence..

In all these cases the holders were sane at the point of licensing.

I'm not sure what the answer is... but there is a real problem...

I assume this is irony because I doubt you have the back bone to do anything of the sort

You assume whatever you want. I genuinely, genuinely don't care. 😀

Don Simon- deffo the majority of criminal guns were never legal in this country they are either (smuggled) imports or crude modifications (and lots has been done to make modification of air weapons much more difficult recently)

Would this be a good time to talk about the shoot-'em-up video games which the Norvegian and German 'Colombine' shooters were fans of?

don simon - Member

And where do illegal guns come from?

Isn't there a failing in the system here? I would assume that all guns were once legal.

Well ignoring home made ones (a few are made) I to assume that they all were legal at sometime but not nessarily in this country. Are we to blame the legal gun owners for the introduction of ilegal guns from Eastern Europe?

I assume this is irony because I doubt you have the back bone to do anything of the sort

is your moral compass broken it takes backbone to attack someone with a bottle?

In all these cases the holders were sane at the point of licensing.

I'm not sure what the answer is... but there is a real problem

Shorter periods between certification. Five years is too long, IMO. Not sure what interval would be "right", but I do think that five years is too long.

Isn't there a failing in the system here? I would assume that all guns were once legal.

all legal guns were/are effectively 'in the system' because of dealers registers (subject to yearly inspection), the application and granting (or refusal) of a 'variation' for a particular firearm and then the serial number being entered on the FAC by the police. so when handguns were banned they were either sold abroad with an export license or handed in to the police, logged then destroyed. so all firearms were traceable, you couldn't make them just disappear without having your collar felt by plod.

to become illegal they need to be stolen from a FAC holder or be illegally imported from abroad (the most likely source)

TJ's offensive and casual categorisation of all gun-users as Violent Fantasists and people who are only interested in killing has sadly obscured the fact that there are real issues in gun licensing...

Its the truth tho pretty much. Look at the people who are desperately defending gun use.

the only use of a gun is in killing things. IMO people who kill for fun are not mentally stable and should be banned from owning guns.

as for the violent fantasists - a few obvious ones on this thread and a couple of folk who know gun owners who fit the description.

IMO people who kill for fun are not mentally stable and should be banned....

Slightly tangential but does that mean that anglers are mentally unstable? (Nothing to do with whether a rod is an offensive weapon!!)

C'tain - I think you have a point about 5 years being too long.

Its the truth tho pretty much

No, it's not. It's your opinion. That does not make it the "truth", nor does it make it a fact.

Unless, of course, you have some FACTS to back up your assertion. (Rhetorical, BTW, as you don't)

TandemJeremy - Member
IMO people who kill for fun are not mentally stable and should be banned from owning guns.

That's a few highland estates going bankrupt then. I'll blame you when the deer population is further out of control and the resultant over-grazing denudes the land of the last vestiges of natural woodland.

as for the violent fantasists - a few obvious ones on this thread and a couple of folk who know gun owners who fit the description.

Aaaaaaand....... A professional, who's job it is to know these things, He's told you that you are talking bollx.

Yet somehow you know better ?

Mmmmm.

This is a pistol specifically designed for not killing things.

[IMG] [/IMG]

An exception that proves your rule wrong?

Stoatsbrother - I presume that you're a doctor from above comments.

I'm guessing here, but I suppose medical records become "tagged" in some way regards firarms - ie. when the initial approach is made by the police, and you're asked if there is any reason you know of [b]not[/b] to grant one regards mental health etc?

as such, I presume if someone who is a known SGC/FAC holder does come in discussing depression/MH problems etc, you are under a duty to inform Police of the issue [b]if[/b] you feel there is a risk?

is that the way it works, as if that is right, I wonder if even something like more regular renewals would make any difference?

do you think that the relationship between GP/firearms licensing deters FAC holders from coming forward if they are suffering from Mh problems, and is there a way round that at all?

"[i]the only use of a gun is in killing things[/i]"

Is constantly repeating things one knows to be untrue idicative of mental health issues? Is ignoring facts and information that don't support one's argument indicative of mental health issues?

Cant believe i missed this thread!

TJ is comedy gold, his trolling is so poor and obvious that it has become funny in itself, how dull must his life be?

I havent read all 9 pages so far but some thoughts:

The generalisation about 'violent fantasists' is ace....as others have said, certain 'right-on' posters on here will scream the place down if you make a generalisation about race, ethnicity, social class, wealth etc....but when they want to make a sweeping generalisation about something they feel strongly about then its all Kool and the gang.....you really couldnt make it up.

I also have a shotgun certificate, to be honest the gun doesnt get used much....couple of clay shoots during the summer and occasional rough shooting for birds when i can get a friendly land owner to let me use a field for an afternoon....i love eating meat and pheasant, pigeon, rabbit etc are great....virtually free when shot yourself and of course there's the satisfaction in being skilful enough to actually hit said animals while they are (usually) moving across the sky or field.

Being sensible for a minute i'm pretty sure that if you found out how many people held fire arms certificates or shot gun certificates and then found out how many of these owners end up shooting people then the likelihood of a gun owner ending up a homicidal maniac would be miniscule....but dont let the facts get in the way of a good knee jerk reaction eh?!

Finally, shoots can and do generate huge revenue....brother-in-law arranges them where he lives in Warwickshire and charges £1500 per person for a days shooting....8 guns per shoot, beaters to be paid, lunch at the local pub etc....its good money for him and some of it goes into the local economy too.

Ah, tags... Of all the people posting in this thread, I'm the only one that's tiresome

CaptainFlashheart - Member

In all these cases the holders were sane at the point of licensing.

I'm not sure what the answer is... but there is a real problem

Shorter periods between certification. Five years is too long, IMO. Not sure what interval would be "right", but I do think that five years is too long.

Sorry but can see no way it would be obvious that a person is sane. I have friend that is clearly insane a paranoid schizophrenic to be exact he believes the social are watching/listening/following him. As in the following there are 2 people in each houses each side and behind him a total of 8 doing 8 hours shifts plus others in cars note cars not car waiting for him to leave the house to followe him. When he went out they planted cameras in every roam (Wireless) which he knows are there but cannot see. He has moved house 3 times now to get away from them Also are more importantly his neighbours are all "in on it". I should strees just how ludicrus this is he monstrusly obese with multiple physical problems I could go on and on and on but you get the picture????? Now I know he is a fruit cake but his doctor doesn't(any of them from any of the practise he used). Someone stayed with him recently for a week they must know by now so thats two. If he went for a license (ignoring the physical disabilities) how would P.C. plod know he would no doubt check with his doctor (is it just the last one?) No doubt with his clean record a license would be his for the asking

as for the violent fantasists - a few obvious ones on this thread and a couple of folk who know gun owners who fit the description.

If you're going to make such comments I think you need to start naming names rather than hiding behind generalisations. Doesn't reflect too well on you otherwise.
Obviously you run the risk of them being so mentally unstable that they will come round and shoot you though 🙂

Can't be arsed to read all this, but as usual TJ has an opinion which polarizes the posters. I have two shotguns and a .22 rifle. I'm sane, and I take the responsibility very, very seriously. I can see both sides. I think the chap who allegedly killed his family members would have done the same with a different weapon if his guns had been confiscated (which I think they should have been).

deviant - Member

Finally, shoots can and do generate huge revenue....brother-in-law arranges them where he lives in Warwickshire and charges £1500 per person for a days shooting....8 guns per shoot, beaters to be paid, lunch at the local pub etc....its good money for him and some of it goes into the local economy too.

You understate by a huge margin just what benefits there is for the rural community. With the huge losses in farm work (mechanistion)shoots geneate jobs and money. In parts of Scotland it is has lead to repopulation in some areas. And its fun, I only beat but still enjoy the day out specially when you have shit guns.

Junkyard - Member

is your moral compass broken it takes backbone to attack someone with a bottle?

Irony? got to be irony

the only use of a gun is in killing things. IMO people who kill for fun are not mentally stable and should be banned from owning guns.

Maybe. But even your semantic pedantry can't get around the fact that plenty of people own guns with no intention of killing anything at all. Should they also be banned from owning them, or just the people who want to kill things with them?

SD-253

And you sound like the sort of person who would play that game as in I find hunting offensive ban it.....hypocrite

Is this your idea of debate?

You tell me what you think my response would be to a question you've not asked and then go one further by telling me that I'm a hyopocrite for holding that view?

As it happens I've no strong views either way on fox hunting, so would you like another go?

Northwind - Member

Ah, tags... Of all the people posting in this thread, I'm the only one that's tiresome

Not any more - but yo are both tiresome and awesome

TandemJeremy - Member

Not any more

😥

There is also a strong correlation between those who get pleasure out of harming animals and violent crime.

The very fact you enjoy killing should debar you from gun ownership.

THM

RPRT - you can have a difference of opinion without insisting on imposing your views on others and questioning the morality of those who disagree.

Which was the bit that "offended" you?

I had't really noticed that TJ has managed to "impose" his views yet.

So I guess you must be "offended" that someone might question the morality of gun owners.

Don't go listening to the moral maze any time soon - you might blow a gasket.

There is also a strong correlation between those who get pleasure out of driving motorbikes too fast and road deaths.

Anyone who rides a motorbike is mentally unstable and should be banned from owning one.

Or is that too much of a generalisation?

I had a number of firearms in my younger days, these were purely for target competition shooting.

Not killing things.

TJ can I ask how you can justify owning a crossbow? (If you actually do, or are you using it as a joke?)
Surely a crossbow is equally as dangerous with the added issue that they are relatively silent compared to firearms?
Can't be arsed to argue, just genuinely interested

Edit: Thought I would quote the bit just incase you wanted to deny it

TandemJeremy - Member

Northwind - the point about longbows is an interesting one and would require a bit of thought and you rightly pick up an inconsistency. It had never occurred to me before this debate. I think longbows are not attractive tot eh violent fantasists that like to own guns. I do have a crossbow tho
Posted 2 hours ago # Report-Post

Got as far as this,

TandemJeremy - Member

Yes

Recent gun murders like this have all been legally held guns.

there simply is no reason nor excuse for anyone to have guns except in some occasional circumstances such as farmers.

Everyone who holds guns without this sort of reason is the sort of person who should be denied a license

and already I've lost the will to live. How is it in your black white world TJ? Jeez yer a numpty sometimes!

TandemJeremy - Member
There is also a strong correlation between those who get pleasure out of harming animals and violent crime.

The very fact you enjoy killing should debar you from gun ownership.

Do you still enjoy driving dangerously on your motorbike? Should that bar you from haveing a driving licsense? Killed a kids lately?

RPRT - not looking for another pointless argument here. Re-read my original post - 'offensive to law abiding gun owners" not me. Its not necessary, simples!

No idea what the moral maze is, sorry!!

druidh - Member
That's a few highland estates going bankrupt then. I'll blame you when the deer population is further out of control and the resultant over-grazing denudes the land of the last vestiges of natural woodland.

But what if the guns were all kept on the estate, and only released to visiting parties?

Ask yourself this!
If after hungerford, all hobbyist types were banned from keeping guns. Would Hamilton have been able to kill so many at dunblane?
I believe he would'nt have, and if just one of those 'dead children' could have been saved by a ban, then a ban would be right and justified.

grahamt1980 - Member

TJ can I ask how you can justify owning a crossbow? (If you actually do, or are you using it as a joke?)
Surely a crossbow is equally as dangerous with the added issue that they are relatively silent compared to firearms?
Can't be arsed to argue, just genuinely interested

It was a souvenir from Malaysia my parents got in the 60s. Its not been pulled since the 70s. I suspect it would break if yo tried to pull it now - bamboo bow and rattan string So really a bit of a joke