[Closed] Private ownership of firearms

it ought to be jammed up his arse backwards.

🙂

[quote=Elf]...It might just be me, but I can't actually see anything here designed with the specific purpose of killing.

I didn't say there was did I ?

Or did I miss the bit where I typed what you think you might have wanted me to say ?

I said some people like to collect weird stuff.

And other people don't need to understand why.

They don't need to approve either.

As long as no laws are being broken, they just need to mind their own business.

The original purpose of any collection is irrelevant really - just as long as the collector isn't collecting them FOR that purpose in the case of guns.

What do you think is behind the psychology of collecting?

It might be mostly harmless, but in grown ups I don't think it is a good thing - it kind of points to the grasping childish id winning out over the more sensible and rational ego.

Grown men collecting children's toys - now that's concerning.

It might be mostly harmless, but in grown ups I don't think it is a good thing

so, how many people on here have a collection of bikes...?

[img] [/img]

The one on the left is lethal - she can cast hexes and she is mean. Prunella by name. don't cross me or I'll set her on you

I am a little disturbed that Neal has actually taken the pic and put it on his photobucket tho

Wow--this is still cranking along??? Only read the last couple of pages, but no-one seems to have convinced anyone else of anything.
Well, back to work--can't afford to spend all afternoon following it like I did yesterday.
Good luck everyone.

I am a little disturbed that Neal has actually taken the pic and put it on his photobucket tho

sadly I had to. posting from an iphone and I couldnt do it direct.
.
.

my Point stands though, regardless of your avoidance of it 😕

If people want to collect things, as long as they are legal, what has it got to do with you ?

you dont need to understand it, or approve of it..

If people want to collect things, as long as they are legal, what has it got to do with you ?

you dont need to understand it, or approve of it..

Is it OK to point out that it's a personality defect?

In the case of guns Neal its not harmless that the point. It fuels rambo style fantasies and the occasional mass killing. If all they are is a collection then make the guns unfirable - solid barrels

Hmmm...I remember at about 11 I met an uncle's cousin or something on holiday...he had a Luger and showed it to me (the Luger)....TBH despite me being well into war etc it seemed a bit weird.

higthepig - Member
Oh and this one needs to turn that maglight the other way round, he'll blind himself.
It is a sight, not a Maglight.

SOMEONE BIT! YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEUS!

It fuels rambo style fantasies

Any proof on this, or is it another FACT along the "porn causes rape" line ?

Any proof on this, or is it another FACT along the "porn causes rape" line ?

Have I missed another TJ doozy? Damn! We need an "if you liked this thread you'll like..." feature on this forum 🙂

It fuels rambo style fantasies

Isn't that kind of an over-generalization???

I have quite a number of workable firearms (pistols, rifles, shotguns, black powder) and I haven't had the slightest inkling of rambo fantasies or committed any mass killings----but god help the fool who tries to forceably break into my home while I'm here.

I'm just watching a girly firing a big rifle and started thinking about the feeling of power there must be, it's years since I've fired a gun, so I can't remember the feeling. It must be akin to the feeling I had when hammering the ZZR, a macho thing.

---but god help the fool who tries to forceably break into my home while I'm here.

And there is the proof in one phrase. Or Have I bitten on a troll?

I sense a new tangent in this thread; we've not really discussed the right to defend your own home much. Off you all go now, and play nicely

And there is the proof in one phrase

If you really believe that my statement that I would protect my home against someone breaking in to steal or cause bodily harm is somehow a "rambo fantasy", you and I will just have to agree to disagree.

Are you really saying you would use your gun to shoot someone who broke into your home - then yes that is a rambo fantasy and should disqualify you from holding guns.

You would go to jail for a long time if you did and rightly so.

Edit - see CFHs post a few pages back to see an non fantasy sensible attitude to guns for self defense

stilltortoise - Member

I sense a new tangent in this thread;

[img] [/img]

Its a small number of deaths but its completely avoidable

that is applicable to just about anything and everything from selling 240v power tools (not site 110v) to the number of old people trampled by cows when walking their yappy little dogs (i think about 5 people a year) and limitless cheap alcohol in bars. the list is endless.

Oh crikey....TJ's saying I'm sensible now! 😯

😉

You would go to jail for a long time if you did and rightly so.

wrong. i know somebody who shot and killed somebody climbing through his garage (big car workshop) was on remand then walked free.

wasn't there a case in manchester recently with a similar outcome? or was that a knife?

Ooh - alcohol. That's a good one. It as no utility value (for the vast majority of the population) but causes huge numbers of deaths each year through misuse, drunk driving, physical and mental abuse etc.

Shouldn't that be banned? Surely anyone who drinks alcohol is glamourising it's use and therefore has mental health issues. What about folk that [i]collect[/i] wines and whiskys - OMG - they must be seriously deranged!

Are you really saying you would use your gun to shoot someone who broke into your home

Yep, that's what I'm saying and in those circumstances I would not be going to jail.

Exactly what would you do, if say, someone who was armed (with whatever---knife, gun, baseball bat, etc) broke down your front door in the middle of the night and you had a family in the house--invite them in for tea to discuss their intrusion?

Like I said, just have to disagree with you and all the pontificating in the world won't change my mind and I am not likely to change yours. So it is!!

Did Rambo shoot an intruder?

Don't remember that part of the film... must watch it again!

(now, where's me bloody tissues gone 😡 )

Busydog - just make sure you wait till they get on the stairs and shoot em in the face, not in the back 😉

Are you really saying you would use your gun to shoot someone who broke into your home - then yes that is a rambo fantasy and should disqualify you from holding guns.

No thats taking out a lowlife and keeping a space free in prison and saving the taxpayer money at the same time

THis thread is about as close to a perpetual motion machine as one can get.
Actually a lot of good back and forth and strongly stated beliefs/opinions---it is just one of those subjects that you are going to have strong beliefs on both sides and not many minds will be changed.

If I wear camo pants, vest, bandana and oil my upper body, would that be an acceptable rambo fantasy?

Dunno, but the oiled body bit has got me fantasising....

Busydog - just make sure you wait till they get on the stairs and shoot em in the face, not in the back

Exactly what a policeman who lives down the street told me---and if they stagger out the door, drag them back in.

No thats taking out a lowlife and keeping a space free in prison and saving the taxpayer money at the same time

My sentiments exactly

Perhaps we should turn this thread on it's head(to help it reach a 1000 posts :-))and ask the opposite question and let the pro gun folk expound their clearly, strongly held views.
Why don't we liberlaise gun ownership? Why have any restrictions at all?

Why don't we liberlaise gun ownership? Why have any restrictions at all?

I do not want [s]TJ[/s] the mentally unstable to be allowed to own guns. The current system is not ideal, but it controls access to a degree. With refining, it could and should control that access yet further.

I think case law shows you will go to jail if you shoot the intruder in the back when he's running away. Shoot an advancing intruder in the front having shouted a warning and there's a good chance you'll walk free.

That girl above is not going to shoot that gun, she's not wearing ear protection.

Not gun-related, per se, but along the protecting yourself/your home:

I had a friend who was about 24/25 at the time (15 years ago), came home from work late at night and was surprised by a big guy who had broken into her home.
He grabbed her in the kitchen when she came in and she had the presence of mind to grab a 9 inch chefs knife from a knife block and firmly planted it in said bad guy's stomach--he died on the kitchen floor and she was completely exonerated.
To this day, she says, under the same circumstances she would do it again in a heartbeat.

CaptainFlashheart - Member

Why don't we liberlaise gun ownership? Why have any restrictions at all?

I do not want TJ the mentally unstable to be allowed to own guns. The current system is not ideal, but it controls access to a degree. With refining, it could and should control that access yet further.
Posted 2 minutes ago # Report-Post

But surely the USA and all the other countries in the world who have far less stringent gun control(and more gun deaths as the graph about 15 pages back shows) believe they have the right balance of control and freedom? Are they right?

Less control = More death. How can that be right?

We need gun control. We have a system that works, to a degree. We should change that system to improve it, but to cry out in a wishy washy liberal reedy voice, "BAN IT ALL!" is the wrong approach as well.

busydog she was under attack in her own home by an intruder and what she did was reasonable. However had she picked up the knife and run at him whilst he tried to escape she would not be defending herself but attacking someone....it is not hard to tell them apart and I doubt anyone thinks she did anything wrong tbh

can a gun owner tell me re the legality I thought you had to have the gun securely stored and the ammo elsewhere so i assume you would have some difficulty explaining why you had a loaded gun at the time of the intrusion is this correct?

Yes busy dog - thsts rather different from getting your gun from its case, getting the ammo from where it is locked up and shooting someone.

No way on earth is shooting a burgler going to be considered reasonable force and no way would the gun be a "weapon of opportunity".

it would be murder and you would go down for it

You are showing what an immature violent fantasist you are and have firmly proved my point. thank you

I'm trying to think about the levels of gun crime in Spain when I first went in about 2000, iirc correctly there were very few incedents of gun crime and what there was was done by foreigners. The Police carry guns. By how much would gun crime be reduced here if the Police were allowed to carry guns?

can a gun owner tell me re the legality I thought you had to have the gun securely stored and the ammo elsewhere so i assume you would have some difficulty explaining why you had a loaded gun at the time of the intrusion is this correct?

Yes. Unless I had a reasonable explanation for having a loaded gun about the place at the time, I'd be in bother. Serious bother.

Just back from lamping rabbits, rifle in hand? (I own shotguns, not rifles, BTW) Step inside to find intruder? Intruder attacks you? You fire in self defence, commensurate to the level of the attack? Fine.

Sitting in the study, reading a good book and sipping a decent claret? Intruder breaks in? Grab one of a pair of conveniently loaded Wiliam Evans Pall Malls and shoot the chap? Not fine.

[quote=TJ LAW]You would go to jail for a long time if you did and rightly so.

Wow. Snap decision. No details. No circumstances. Just a judgement. [b]Jail, for a long time ![/b]

It's not like you to talk bollx about about legal issues ?

Or are you actually talking about "TJ-Law"

rather the more widely accepted "Actual Law"

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/pensioner-who-shot-intruder-escapes-charge-attorney-general-decides-householder-who-opened-fire-acted-in-selfdefence-1493490.html

CaptainFlashheart - Member

Less control = More death. How can that be right?

We need gun control. We have a system that works, to a degree. We should change that system to improve it, but to cry out in a wishy washy liberal reedy voice, "BAN IT ALL!" is the wrong approach as well.

But isn't that what the US gun lobby says about any tighter controls there?

This case is typical, TJ.

[url= http://www.****/news/article-2045999/Malcolm-White-held-attempted-murder-shooting-burglar-home-raid.html ]Initially held on suspicion of attempted murder [/url]

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hereford-worcester-15235766 ]But only charged with growing canabis and illegally possessing firearms[/url]

It's not like you to talk bollx about about legal issues ?

i'm waiting for him to tell me if i'm lying about walking free after shooting somebody.

found a news report, they have swapped the pics round, it's easy to work out who the 20 stone madman bouncer was

[url= http://www.****/news/article-1161272/Kenneth-Batchelor-cleared-murder-accidentally-shot-intruder.html ]http://www.****/news/article-1161272/Kenneth-Batchelor-cleared-murder-accidentally-shot-intruder.html[/url]

Elfinsafety - Member

Anything that is capable of killing a squirrel from 20-30 yards will have a tad more power than 12ftlb.

And then you pipe-up about how we can learn from your posts. I'm guessing you know what irony means...?

SOMEONE BIT! YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEUS!

Not a bite, done in the interest of thread preservation, this was the only thing that got me through a long night shift last night. I've only got 10 hours to do tonight, so I'm hoping for more of the same 🙂

Well, Mr Smith.

It's a good job you went to Real Court, that uses Real Laws.

Because if you went to TJ-Law Court

you would have had this piffle to deal with ....

[quote=TJ LAW].....
No way on earth is shooting a burgler going to be considered reasonable force and no way would the gun be a "weapon of opportunity".
[b]it would be murder and you would go down for it[/b]

I have many violent fantasies.. mostly involving two very stupid yet arrogant cowards who like to post a lot on this message board. 🙂

When I turn up on their doorsteps as a part of my selfless quest to reduce the national idiocy measure, I wish to bludgeon them slowly as they cringe and murmer and beg for mercy on their pathetic little lives. I would not ever consider finishing the job quickly and allowing them escape before every woeful second of their feeble lives flashed full and bold before their eyes!

Violent fantasies involving firearms are for pussies!

The sensible people have much more enjoyable means to the end. Guns have nothing at all to do with it! 🙂

Well, Mr Smith.

It's a good job you went to Real Court, that uses Real Laws.

Because if you went to TJ-Law Court

you would have had this piffle to deal with ....

just imagine having to do jury service with TJ?!!

Razor - not that I've imagined doing that at all...

but [b]if[/b] I were to do that, do you think that it would add to the ironing if, during the process, I pulled my keys out my pocket, jangled them, and said to them "see them, them's the keys to my gun cabinet, but I'm not using that, I'm beating you to death with this cricket bat instead because I'm a [b]responsible gun owner"[/b]

😀

just imagine having to do jury service with TJ?!!

[img] [/img]

Cheers cpt every now and again on threads is it useful to have some actual facts 😉

mr smith from your link he accidently shot someone what if he said yes i did it on purpose [which is what we are actually discussing]and what folk said they would do , what would have happened then.

edukator from your link it is not clear what weapon he used but it dies say

Mr White is a member of a bell target shooting team – where participants shoot at a wall-mounted target with an air gun – based at the village pub. The team play in a league straddling the Worcestershire and Herefordshire border.

....just imagine having to do jury service with TJ?!!

I am trying, but it's rapidly becoming a "violent fantasy" so I'm going to stop.

(don't want to lose my license !)

A rarity at times, Junky! 😉

"just imagine having to do jury service with TJ?!! "

It would not be am issue. The problem with this old internet communication thing, is you don't see who is really pulling the strings! 😉

I doubt the man is capable of forming an opinion based on evidence put before him. I think you can spot a mile off that his opinions all come from elsewhere.

I expect he would have a fit the moment he has to assess anything on actual factual evidence and be carried out on a strecher! 🙂

No way on earth is shooting a burgler going to be considered reasonable force and no way would the gun be a "weapon of opportunity".

it would be murder and you would go down for it

Maybe under the aforementioned (many times) TJ Law, if it actually existed, but since it doesn't, I don't feel any great compulsion to obey it.

You are showing what an immature violent fantasist you are and have firmly proved my point. thank you

Kind of presumptious as you don't know me. What's more likely proven is the fact that you seem to be, as many here continue to allude to, somewhat of a website windbag ---nothing personal understand, just an opinion based on Busydog Law

"Razor - not that I've imagined doing that at all..."

A cricket bat is far too quick and merciful! You gun owners are all the same! Couldn't put together a half decent violent fantasy if your life depended on it!

Jury Service with TJ?

Wait a minute! I am not that damn crazy! There has to be some measure of mercy for a human soul!

just imagine having to do jury service with TJ?!!

Erm, I'd say there'd be a greater chance of Justice being served with him as part of a jury, than with some others on here....

And then you pipe-up about how we can learn from your posts. I'm guessing you know what irony means...?

I've bin shot with a 'legal' air rifle from about 2m (mate mucking about; extremely irresponsible), it barely broke the skin (put a hole in me jeans though 😡 ). To guarantee a kill with an air rifle of a squirrel 20m away or more, I'd be wanting something more powerful tbh. Irrelevant anyway as my neighbour would not be likely to be able to shoot accurately enough, not with his 'shakes'. Speshly not if he's had a couple. And if you saw how thick his glasses are, you'd not want him near a gun of any sort.... 😯

[url= http://www.infertrust.org/air_guns.asp ]

What are low powered air rifles used for?

Used by individuals, and by members of shooting clubs for target practice. Also used for pest control, ie killing small vermin (rats and squirrels) around buildings at close range. It would be inhumane and cruel to shoot larger animals or birds in flight with a low powered airgun. [b] It would also be inhumane and cruel to shoot small vermin from a long distance. The pellet would injure the animal or bird but probably not kill it outright.[/b] The animal may die later from its wounds, but would suffer pain and distress.

Jury Service with TJ?

How about, 'Jury service with Z-11'?

[img] [/img]

Notice you've been rather quite on any of the threads about the Stephen Lawrence case....

What, no flippant comment or the totally unnecessary inclusion of an X at the end of your post...?

20-30 yards is not considered long-distance, even for air-powered guns.

What's with all the ass kissing Elf ?

It's looking almost as if TJ has cloned your ID so he can have a "wingman" to help out. 😯

Would Psycho Stapleton have been walking down the street with a gun if he thought plod were on an equal footing?

he is a psycho so it is unlikely he thinks rationally...unless he is going for an insanity defence in which case he has played his cards well so far

Elfinsafety, there are many different types of air gun in the same way there are many different ways of providing suspension on a MTB....some are more efficient than others and you always get what you pay for.

A cheap spring powered air gun will be way under the legal limit and crap for shooting vermin....think BB gun for an idea of what these things are like....but an air pressured air rifle on or near to the legal limit will easily kill small animals around the 25 yrd mark.
A mate has one that is perfectly legal and we tend to use that for rabbits as a shotgun is too loud and scares the others away.

he is a psycho so it is unlikely he thinks rationally...unless he is going for an insanity defence in which case he has played his cards well so far

How about, 'Jury service with Z-11'?

Jury? Don't be bloody silly

This thread has got me thinking and have a couple questions (not trolling, just something I don't have knowledge of):

Do police in the UK carry firearms at all or is it just special/tactical teams that do in special circumstances?

Does UK law require a firearm (of any kind) to be kept in a locked case and ammo at another location in the home?

Yep, Elf, this is completly irrelavent to the topic, but I can't stand a complete strager being wrong on the internet.... (which so accuratly sums up STW!) That link does not specify range beyond 'short range'

I've done a lot of hunting with an air rifle. My BSA Supersport SS was (actually, is, it's in the loft as it has been for the last 8 years) a .25 caliber, short range, rat gun that measured 11.89ft/lbs at the barel. I was happy taking rats out to 25m with it, even though the .25 loses power at range a lot faster due to the greater wind resistance. When I say happy, I wouldn't take a shot if not sure of a kill, and rats are a LOT tougher than squirrels!

The .20 BSA Goldstar would happly take rabbits, squirrels and pidgens out to 40 meters, as long as I was sure of the shot (ie, taking pride that the animal did not suffer any more than well, being dead!)

Still smack that muppet shooting around a public area in the knackers though, I'm not argueing that it's a good thing to do, more that even with a legal rifle, it's bloody unsafe. Interestingly though, the air rifle would have a lot less stopping power than say a Black Widow catapult, with more accuracy. Yet you see a kid with one of those and you don't blink....

What's with all the ass kissing Elf ?

Not 'ass-kissing' at all; I'm not in the habit of making affectionate gestures towards equine creatures. 😐

Elfinsafety, there are many different types of air gun in the same way there are many different ways of providing suspension on a MTB....some are more efficient than others and you always get what you pay for.

I'd still not want to use something that low-powered to try to make a clean kill from that sort of distance tbh.

All irrelevant as he'd be breaking the Law anyway. I'm hoping the threat of me grassing him up will dissuade him. The fact he's got any sort of gun worries me, as he's not yer most thoughtful and well-balanced sort....

busydog, more Police carry than is publicly known.

I think the view by joe public is that if a firearms incident occurs then special officers are summoned from some hidden base in spectacular SWAT team style....the reality is far more mundane.

I can only comment on Surrey Police since they are who i have the closest working relationship with but their firearms officers patrol as normal and the only way you'd know there are guns in the car is because of the fluorescent yellow dot in both the rear side windows (about the size of the base of a coffee mug)....they dont routinely wear their sidearm, instead keeping them locked in a gun cabinet between the two officers in the front roughly behind the handbrake/gear stick area....only once have i come across them at an RTC when they had pistols openly holstered on their belts.

Notice you've been rather quite on any of the threads about the Stephen Lawrence case....

been to busy to read/watch much news and i don't really have any interest in the case and have no real knowledge of the facts so have no desire to comment.
i happen to know a fair bit about firearms and a reasonable grasp of the 1997 firearms act (i have a copy somewhere).
i no longer hold a license though but will reapply if/when i move back to the countryside.

Do police in the UK carry firearms at all or is it just special/tactical teams that do in special circumstances?

Specialist teams, some armed all the time, some armed at times as necessary.

Does UK law require a firearm (of any kind) to be kept in a locked case and ammo at another location in the home?

technically, you only have a duty to keep securely, in [i]practice[/i], this means a locked metal cabinet to BS standards with two locks, and for rifles, a separately locked (can be internal) cabinet for ammo and bolt (if removable)

I think the view by joe public is that if a firearms incident occurs then special officers are summoned from some hidden base in spectacular SWAT team style....the reality is far more mundane.

Yeah, the public perception of SWAT teams and the reality is pretty far apart---I guess we can blame the TV/movie portrayal for that. I have a guy a couple street over from me who is SWAT officer and he says it's mostly a lot of getting called out of bed in the middle of the night, getting all his gear on and together, only to rush out for something that (thanksfully) turns out to be pretty tame.

technically, you only have a duty to keep securely, in practice, this means a locked metal cabinet to BS standards with two locks, and for rifles, a separately locked (can be internal) cabinet for ammo and bolt (if removable)

That makes sense, especially in the case where there are kids in the home---you can hide them, but kid are really adept at finding whatever you don't want them to. Whenever my grandkids or other kids come to the house, I lock my handgun up.

Do police in the UK carry firearms at all or is it just special/tactical teams that do in special circumstances?

Some do, not all. Its a specilised department for most forces. Some officers dont carry guns on them, but can get access to them if needed. Some departments carry them whilst on patrol, but they normally need to be specifically authorised by someone very high up in the force to draw and use them.

On speaking to the firearms chaps who carry firearms on patrol, they comment that most of the public notice the taser gun ( its bright yellow ) and are often oblivious to the pistol ( black plastic looking )

Does UK law require a firearm (of any kind) to be kept in a locked case and ammo at another location in the home?

On speaking to the firearms chaps who carry firearms on patrol, they comment that most of the public notice the taser gun ( its bright yellow ) and are often oblivious to the pistol ( black plastic looking

A lot of the police here carry the Tasers now, along with firearms (usually Glocks) and try to use them as a tool of first resort--of course we recently had a case where a 300 lb dude (on meth) went violent on two police who were trying to arrest him, so one of them tasered him and he died of a heart attack--so the family has lawyered up and suing.