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Unless you are very lucky and call before 1 second past 8 it's impossible to make an appointment to see our NHS GP. Same for"eConsult" - it's closed as soon as it opens. If your problems isn't life threatening, what are you supposed to do? I've never thought of this before, but is there a possibility to see someone privately - I mean, apart from if you've got some special problem like, say, sciatica, where you know more or less who you need to see?
And supposing there is (I guess there must be), is this usually on an ad hoc basis, or do you need some ongoing insurance policy, or ... ?
Any experiences or tips or comments (beyond HTFU :-). ) ??
We have the option as part of our employee assistance program, worth checking if you have similar?
And supposing there is (I guess there must be), is this usually on an ad hoc basis, or do you need some ongoing insurance policy, or … ?
Can work either way...
Can register and have a private GP as your only GP, but this carries a 'subscription' like payment I guess.. plus cost when used..
Or I imagine you can pay as you go - will be more expensive PER TRIP, but if it's once in a blue moon may work for you.
DrP
Addressing the original problem, my GP surgery has a 30 minute window from 8 to 8.30am where you can call or pop a message in the app.
People will then be triaged rather than it being first-come-first-served for appointments, so if you need seeing you'll get seen at an appropriate time.
Are you sure yours doesn't do something like that via app?
My employer does private GP care as one of our sidelines, you definitely can do PAYG, I wrote the brochure for them.
Unless you are very lucky and call before 1 second past 8 it’s impossible to make an appointment to see our NHS GP.
Is that actually correct though? I know there are huge regional variations but it must be possible to see a GP or AHP locally.
My wife is a GP, does mainly NHS but also some private work. Nearly all of her private work is PAYG. Its not cheap, starts at £120 for a 15min appointment. Sounds a lot but if it sorts out your issue quickly without faff than I guess it is money well spent.
I've used private both in the UK and over here (Switzerland). The UK experience was superb, like the OP - couldn't get an appointment at all, the best they could offer was a telephone consultation which would be difficult to diagnose my then problem of a rash! The receptionist was coming out with all sorts of funky things like send her a WhatsApp of MY rash and she'll pass it on or email the surgery with a photo. At this point i gave up and found a private GP on the outskirts of Windsor, was done and dusted with appropriate cream within 5 hours....i'd been chipping away for the best part of a week at my local surgery with precisely zero success!
Would i do it again? If i was being given the runaround then yes definitely.
I paid a one off fee plus prescription, but i'm sure like a dental plan they'll be some kind of insurance subscription.
Good Luck. Given up with our local GP's. Private might be the answer, or wait till your leg drops off (or something similar) and you may get seen in A&E by the time you are dead !
Addressing the original problem, my GP surgery has a 30 minute window from 8 to 8.30am where you can call or pop a message in the app.
People will then be triaged rather than it being first-come-first-served for appointments, so if you need seeing you’ll get seen at an appropriate time.
That's how ours works - I ring about 8.30 to miss the rush, explain what I want, and someone rings me back either the same day or the next, depending on how urgent it was felt to be.
It's not "how it used to be" but it's worked so far for me.
Or use Livi and they can assess you and then doctors receptionist's can make the appointment for you.
That's what happened to me last week.
Any walk-in centres nearby?
difficult to diagnose my then problem of a rash
You could have saved yourself the runaround by just going to your local pharmacy. That sounds exactly the sort of ailment the pharmacist would be well placed to diagnose and prescribe the best thing.
Depends on both can you afford it and can you afford the follow-on (that depends what it is)
Equally I guess it depends can you afford NOT to.... (that depends what it is)
It's a couple of years since I managed to get through to the NHS GP receptionist (maybe 3) because I was bleeding out of my bum and I'm still waiting for the appointment .. private saw me the same day I gave up and had me at the specialists the next week. The priovate GP was my own pocket but the follow up was through my then employee insurance.
Prior to that I had a mole removed 6-7? yrs ago ... I/they still haven't got the results.
my last experience of needing an appointment, I called at the prescribed time and got a recorded message saying I was in a queue, but I could go to the website and make an enquiry / appt there.
So i did, the website was all clunky and not intuitive - I mean how hard should it be to find "book an appointment" - and then when I did find it there's a message saying that because of oversubscription, online booking was suspended and please call the appointment line.
Needless to say, by the time I got back on all the appointments had gone for the day.
all the appointments had gone for the day.
did you need to be seen the same day?
Disclaimer: I’m a PM at a GP practice. I use these sorts of threads as research
did you need to be seen the same day?
It's a bit immaterial when the same thing happens the next day and the one after that... etc. and its the only option to get an appointment.
Last time but one I tried my GP only took booking for up to 2 weeks... everything else is an "emergency" (first come/first served) so you arrive a couple of hours before it opens and join the queue... and hope when you get in there is still a slot and you aren't taking one from someone who's going to die and if not you do the same the next day. Meanwhile the phone was ringing and not being answered so trying to call for an appointment was even more pointless..
Getting into the 2 weeks slots seemed like some rolling triage.
The last time they changed the system and you now do a web form... I was surprised and got an appt the next evening... and then a set of xrays the same week.... it now seems to have broken down as that was 2 weeks ago and they still don't have access to my xrays (as of yesterday)
"did you need to be seen the same day?"
It’s a bit immaterial when the same thing happens the next day and the one after that… etc. and its the only option to get an appointment.
Exactly the problem. I'd be happy to get an appointment, say, next week, but I can't.
Slightly related - there are ads now on telly and social media about going to see your GP if you're worried about something that might be cancer. How does that work if you call the receptionist and tell her that, say, you've had a tummy pain for a couple of weeks and you're concerned. To whom are we delegating the triage? Can we expect an explosion of folk dying from undiagnosed conditions in the next year or two? Just feels like the system is utterly broken.
Practical question - how do you find a private GP? Checkatrade.com ?
I go private for routine tests, q happy to pay as I get tests done when it suits me, get 1 to 1 analysis from GP next day.
Did try using state system, it was free so cant complain, but I d rather pay and have a bit of luxury, time saving and a friendly doc who I've used for 15 years.
My NHS GP (north hertfordshire) are bloomin good with triarge - if someone needs to be seen they will be seen. Generally starts with a phone appt / SMS pics in then they bring you in if it's deemed necessary. I've seen people from the queue be serious enough that they are needed to be seen urgently and they are asked to take a seat and they get seen rapidly
But I think anything other than immediately accute 'this needs to be dealt with today - it's clearly an infection' or 'you are 30 you really shouldn't be having X' and there exists an ever growing 'health gap' where I am sure a lot of early stage disease is being missed because there is no such thing as a yearly gp health checkup any more (for those who can't afford it)
Us decently well off people can go and get all the tests we want privately. Need a mole checked? No issue come in to a clinic tomorrow. Want some bloods done? No issue come in later today, £300 please. But what about people who can't afford this - who don't have an immediate 'doctor needs to deal with this' issue eg a bite that has clearly become infected - but can't get access to a healthcare professional to be effective told (but these people DO need to be told from an authoritative doctor type person) "look you really should be doing much more exercise and eating less bread".
That side of healthcare is going to get worse and worse I reckon. And will lead to more disease and a sicker and sicker population.
Why isn't health studies a regular lesson in school? Same as investing, housework, DIY etc. Such a crazily short sighted country!!! Frustrating.
Can’t see the need for private. GP appointments aren’t something particularly urgent. I’m fortunate though as usually get econsult straight and often face to face same day. Not that I go very often. Probably is people abuse GPS when they could easily see a pharmacist for a rash.
I’d be happy to get an appointment, say, next week, but I can’t.
Yup. Same here. Set time to ring and get appointment (for that day). Can’t book for another day… ‘try again tomorrow”… repeat ‘till lucky… and then it’s a phone appointment with someone you can’t understand on the phone. Pharmacist route is fine in theory… ours used to be good (crazy busy) at dealing with things when people couldn’t get to see a GP… but has now left. Over worked/stressed? Don’t know.
Our GP has an e-reception system that works really well. If you need an appointment, this is all triaged online. Can also be used for repeat prescriptions, physio requests, checking for test results etc. I can't remember the last time I had to phone in to them. It also helps to free up the phones for those who don't have online access.
DrJ
Exactly the problem. I’d be happy to get an appointment, say, next week, but I can’t.
Slightly related – there are ads now on telly and social media about going to see your GP if you’re worried about something that might be cancer. How does that work if you call the receptionist and tell her that, say, you’ve had a tummy pain for a couple of weeks and you’re concerned.
See above... still waiting after 3? years for the appointment to "diarrhoea for months and now bleeding out of my bum"...
and the results still aren't back to my suspect mole that was removed 6-7yrs ago...
did you need to be seen the same day?
Disclaimer: I’m a PM at a GP practice. I use these sorts of threads as research
Possibly not but there wasn't a 'sometime in the few days' option, they'd turned the online booking off, it's try again by phone tomorrow.
I can get a consultation for a couple of weeks away (fine if I want to discuss a vasectomy for example), or I can go to a walk-in centre or A&E if it is urgent, but 'had this cough for a couple of weeks now and not getting better' - you don't want to wait another 2 weeks for, you want to be seen relatively promptly.
Not meant to be a rant, whenever I've needed to be seen I've been very well treated, within limitations of the current waiting lists etc., more a humorous attempt at the 'please use the online booking' - 'we've turned online booking off' circle of frustration.
they’d turned the online booking off,
most practices have a variation of this to control demand (there’s only so many people a GP can see) . It’s as challenging for GP and the staff as it is for patients frankly. Demand seems to have gone through the roof and while we have any number of schemes and systems to divert folks to pharmacists or MI clinics we cannot seem to satisfy pts needs.
Try downloading the NHS app, some practices enable appointment booking via that.
Mrs FD get access to private GP through a hospital fund thing she is in.
We have used it twice and to be honest she has found it pretty useless (bearing in mind she is a doctor). The people that dealt with her, their knowledge was apparently woeful. But still they ended up giving a prescription for what was needed.
They dont have to be qualified GP's, and most qualified GP's are indeed working as GP's. However I am sure this market will grow and more GP's will move to these types of private provider due to low pay and NHS conditions
Slightly related – there are ads now on telly and social media about going to see your GP if you’re worried about something that might be cancer. How does that work if you call the receptionist and tell her that, say, you’ve had a tummy pain for a couple of weeks and you’re concerned.
My Mother in Law had this just now. Visited A&E about 6 weeks ago with stomach pain and loose bowls. Out on holiday had the same and ended up in hospital again.
Rang Mrs FD on return from holiday, and Mrs FD said ring GP straight away. She got an urgent GP appt, spoke to the GP who arranged an immediate CT scan that day. Thankfully not cancer but can now be treated.
I work in the NHS and cringe at some people who should know better, but still demand a doc appt when their kid has a really bad cold etc because they think their kids needs anti biotics !
They dont have to be qualified GP’s
Are you sure about that?
My wife is very much a qualified GP, even when working privately. TBH, you'll struggle to find many GP's with more qualifications than her.
Need a mole checked? No issue come in to a clinic tomorrow. Want some bloods done? No issue come in later today, £300 please. But what about people who can’t afford this –
My most-recent GP appt was to check a mole.
Used to app to request, got a call back next day setting up appt in 1.5 weeks' time.
I'm happy with that.
(False alarm BTW)
I have access to a private GP service on an app called babylon that is part of the heathcare package i get from work. I think I used it for one issue and it was very quick and easy. Phone appointments in a given time slot same day.
I prefer face to face and for that I use the NHS GP. My surgery book most of their apps same day so if its urgent you call start of day, sit in a queue for 30 mins but get seen that day, if its not urgent then its about a 3 week wait currently which is not the end of the world. My old surgery before moving had a turn up at 8am and first come first served for the first hour or so of the day. That worked well, start queuing at 7.45, seen by 8.15. The one my wife and kids are at seems impossible to ever get an appointment but my wife seems to have sussed out the system and can log an e consult query in the morning and have a GP call her same day. There is fair bit of finding out the knack of how to get the service out of your surgery
Then as above, more and more seems to be being pushed out to the pharmacists to do, ears, sinus sprays, rashes, BP checks etc have all been pushed to those guys
Went to GP yesterday afternoon after leaving the wife in charge of getting me an appointment in the morning 8:30-8:45 window ( i was on the school run). I've not been for over 12 years , so booked in for an MOT with the nurse whilst I was there for the usual and bloods next week.
Well it’s all going to be fixed as the government is imposing a new contract on the profession that incentivises access above all else and forbids asking patients to call back tomorrow. I’m waiting with baited breath to see what support is going to be offered to practices to magic this into existence…
https://www.england.nhs.uk/long-read/changes-to-the-gp-contract-in-2023-24/
Are you sure about that?
My wife is very much a qualified GP, even when working privately. TBH, you’ll struggle to find many GP’s with more qualifications than her.
I think the distinction Is between a qualified medical doctor (or surgeon) specifically trained and qualified as a GP?
No one has yet made the connection between the shortage of provision in the NHS and the use of private healthcare?
You people, the "I'm alright Jacks", are the problem.
APF 🙁
You people, the “I’m alright Jacks”, are the problem.
Or, an alternative view might be that people paying to go private eases pressure on an already overstretched state system. And don't assume that in every case private work is taking NHS doctors out of the system. My wife was forced to reduce her NHS hours due to the diabolical pension cap system.
You people, the “I’m alright Jacks”, are the problem.
Bit harsh. The private GP market in the UK is relatively teeny. I’d bet that most GPs in it are doing it as a side gig to their NHS work in their days off
It ain't that simple APF. Maybe the reason some people are looking for private GPs now is because they have found they can't get the service they need through their NHS GP, and that is down to years of under funding, target setting and general mis management by the powers that be. I'd suggest an increase in demand for a private GP is a symptom of a failing health service, not a cause.
I can kind of see APFs point its a downward spiral - GPs work private, presumably to top up their wages (I know they aren't seen as paid well, but compared to what many have to live off, they are). GP's complain about working hours / not enough GPs. People consider using private because they aren't satisfied with the NHS service
My surgery was a nightmare to use same thing with the phones. I just used to walk in and stand there until a receptionist spoke to me - they used to just hang up the phone on calls when busy. They have introduced an online service which I've used once and it was pretty good, write down symptoms and get a call back in a couple of days
Once you see the GP's they are great, but I'm always conscious I've got like 10mins to talk to them, and I have a bunch of things going on I'd like to get to the bottom of it. 10mins is just not long enough for complex issues
I have been putting of returning now for nearly a year, so I am considering paying for private scans and tests to discount things. I've seen in town we have a skincare clinic that covers things like moles.
GP seem to be going the way of dentistry
Someone mentioned livi up there. It’s a service that is paid for to “provide extra capacity “ to support nhs primary care in some areas. At the practice where my wife used to work one of the gps was talking about leaving her nhs post to work for them instead. All online. Working from home. Better work life balance etc. I don’t know if she did leave or not but the point is there is a finite number of qualified gps. All the new online private services need gps to work there and we can’t be in two places at once. There are not enough GPs to go round, to deal with the demand.
Once you see the GP’s they are great, but I’m always conscious I’ve got like 10mins to talk to them, and I have a bunch of things going on I’d like to get to the bottom of it. 10mins is just not long enough for complex issues
I have been putting of returning now for nearly a year, so I am considering paying for private scans and tests to discount things. I’ve seen in town we have a skincare clinic that covers things like moles.
+1 this! GP's are great, when there is an immediate issue evident that they can refer for
Anything in depth and they simply don't have the time. Us public are left to be our own GP's these days. Maybe that's a modern luxury - where in the past people would just slowly over the decades have their health degrade, whereas now we can literally pay our way to better health (through paying to see specialists, have our own scans, have yearly bloods, etc, be the master of our own health when we are in 'good enough health' for the GP to be happy - IE national average (which is shocking, imo, and NOT a good metric) - but not at 100% which some strive for (incl myself and others ^, it sounds like)
However I am sure this market will grow and more GP’s will move to these types of private provider due to low pay and NHS conditions
I don’t understand this. GPs don’t work for the NHS and do not have nhs contracts of employment. They are either employees or owners of the practice they work in with the t&cs that that practice decides to offer.
No one has yet made the connection between the shortage of provision in the NHS and the use of private healthcare?
This. There are a finite number of GPs in the country so they can only work in one at any point in time. They, like consultants, have a perverse incentive to make the system worse. The current GP service contract is based on the number of registered patients at the practice, not how many they actually see. So increasing private appointments makes no difference to the business income from the nhs but does increase the GPS income. I used to work in practice based commissioning and it was common place for GP practices to charge extra for additional services, which was fine. But they carried out that service when they were supposed to be seeing normal appointment, not fine, but because the contract is based on registered patients not seen patients there was nothing you could do to stop it
I think APF has a point - but as an individual should I ‘grin and bear it’ with symptoms I’m worried about being an indication of cancer? Or should I do what I can to help myself? I’d feel a bit stupid dying on the moral high ground while the NHS service is trashed for political reasons.
I don’t understand this. GPs don’t work for the NHS and do not have nhs contracts of employment. They are either employees or owners of the practice they work in with the t&cs that that practice decides to offer.
We literally DO have NHS contracts of employment!!!!
Google GP contract England - it’s all there!
And this is the issue (kinda) - the contracts are becoming more and more driven towards ‘making the government look good’ rather than offering good healthcare.
All this drivel about giving people immediate access looks great for the Tory posters, but isn’t workable.
DrP
because the contract is based on registered patients not seen patients
Indeed. And back in the days of practice based commissioning there might have been some spare time to do extra non nhs work. But we are talking 15 years ago here. Nowadays the contract of £x per patient for all the primary care they need is insufficient to meet the demands/needs. Perhaps it should be changed to a cost per contact model like acute trusts have- that would soon prove unaffordable though by the treasury or they would have to actually explicitly cap access to primary care rather than having it rationed by poor access/waiting times like now.
A new contract model is definitely needed. We can’t keep pretending to offer an all you can eat buffet for the cost of just the first course.
https://www.babylonhealth.com/en-gb/pricing#pricing-section
They offer pay as you go, many employers now including it to get staff back to work quicker if they get ill.
And back in the days of practice based commissioning there might have been some spare time to do extra non nhs work.
Clearly there still is because these practice based commissioning schemes still exist today and these private services are suing the same GPs as the NHS contracts with. My local practice runs a dermatology op clinic for the local trust in the practice. The GP runs it during normal clinic time and then works sessions at the trust as a Gpsi in dermatology. My dad was referred by this GP to the hospital where he was then seen by the same GP as part of the acute dermatology service
We literally DO have NHS contracts of employment
Then why does the BMA talk about contracts of employment for GPs being with the practice and not the nhs. There are pages on how GPs and practices should contract with each other. About how locums should set their rates with the practice?
I agree that doctors working in secondary care do have employment contacts with the nhs trust they work at