[b]The Prime Minister, Rt Hon. Gordon Brown MP's, statement to the House of Commons on the matter of the illness of Ms Jade Goody.[/b]

These are difficult and uncertain times for this nation, and the people of Britain rightly expect that my government should devote its full resources to addressing the various matters of genuine national concern that confront us. British troops are deployed overseas, British jobs are being lost as the full impact of a global economic slow-down begins to be felt, my government has engaged in almost unprecedneted state support of the banking sector and has as a result borrowed money considerably in excess of gross domestic product, work by the Joseph Rowntree Foundation suggests that our goal of eliminating child poverty is becoming more expensive. In all, it is possible that the challenges facing this country and my government are insurmountable. It is possible that the solutions to several of them are well beyond the power of government to accomplish. I do not propose to comment in detail upon the illness of Ms Jade Goody. Her condition was not caused by anything within government's control, and I understand that it is unlikely to be affected by government action at this stage.

[url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7897020.stm ]Or not...[/url]

Smashing, there goes a man with his finger on the pulse...

Soon Dave will be on the Air saying how is reaction to Jade was not enough, and that he should take action to limit the amount of sympathy, and even backdate the lack of sympathy to the start of the current daytime TV crisis

Is he going to say somthing about every ill person?i bet there are more deserving people who have done things who get no mention?

jade goody should have been put down well before she got cancer. she's dieing, it's sad for her family.

doesn't bother me in the slightest.

Didnt some Indians put a death curse on her or sumfink?

Brown is a such a c0ck, makes me want to vomit whenever I see him.

Well, he was asked to comment, so what was he supposed to say? I'm sure if he'd have said "frankly, I don't give a sh1t" it wouldn't have gone down very well.

[i]Mr Brown said: "It's very sad and tragic that such a young woman has this cancer. It's very sad indeed that the treatment has not been successful."

He added: "Her determination to help her family is something that we have got to applaud and I wish her family well." [/i]

He's hardly leaping on a publicity bandwagon is he? He's such said what a lot of people would say.

It's not his fault that someone in the media used an oppurtunity to grill him to ask about something so trivial.

jade goody should have been put down well before she got cancer

Nice. How incredibly sensitive and caring of you...

Would you like to elaborate on why you fell she should have been 'put down' ,as you put it (I'm assuming you mean she should have been executed, like a dog or something)?

Here we go again... 😯 🙄

[i]It's not his fault that someone in the media used an oppurtunity to grill him to ask about something so trivial. [/i]

Agreed. I think the fact that he had to comment says more about the state of our political culture than it does about him. Who was the first PM who would have been forced to comment on such trivia? Difficult to imagine Gladstone doing it...

certainly

i've met her twice and on both occasions taken a severe disliking too her. of course i don;t want her actually put down.

if jade good y or her family happen to read these comments, they should have the sense to see that they are a symptom of her 'celebrity' status.

Well I have no interest in her and dislike the society we have that makes her a celebrity. As such the only reason I know about her is because even the main stream press have stories about her so, if it wasn't for this, I wouldn't have heard of her and so wouldn't know about her cancer. However, as I have heard about this my sympathy is with her and her family.

This may shock you, but I am going to praise Jade Goody.

She was let down by the education system and let down badly. She's thick. She knows this. But, she has decided to use her celebrity to make as much money as she can to ensure that her son(s?) are/is not let down in the same way. That HAS to be a good aspiration. Brave girl.

Ok. But it's not a very nice thing to say.

If Jade's 'celebrity' status helps to raise awareness about cancer, then maybe she will leave this Earth as someone who's short life actually made a little bit of difference. Although I'm sure that her friends and family would much prefer that she remained as an annoying person of little consequence to most.

Just give her a bit of dignity. She ain't deliberately hurt anyone, or caused people to suffer.

Well said, Flashy.

shes being treated next at the royal marsden where i work, well next door
there is a crowd of very bored looking photogropers out there all day long waiting to catch a glimpse of her

its all very sad
sad that she has cancer
sad that we know who she is
sad that some journalist? asked the PM about her

i agree rb, her cancer has allegedly caused a rise in the rate of cervical smear testing amongst teenage girls which is great. i'm not a teenage girl though.

if i met her again i'm sure i would be full of sympathy, but she would get exactly the same sympathy as joe bloggs next door's brother or whatever

the press asking the question was just fishing for a blunder to make headlines

She wasn't the most likeable z-list celebrity and I've often wondered how any degree of celebrity status could be bestowed on somebody with little admirable quality.

My sympathies do however go to her family and children for the loss of a loved one.

well hopefully if the cervical cancer jab take up is good 90% of all cervical cancers will be prevented in a few years

that is assuming fuctards like catholic schools and the morons who object to mmr dont screw it up for everyone else

she's dieing

anyway i'm off to pedants corner for that one, where's that plasticine

[i]Ok. But it's not a very nice thing to say.[/i]

FFS, do you heckle comedians with that line????!

[i]She was let down by the education system and let down badly. She's thick. [/i]

Which is it?

EDIT: sorry, I'm not really joining this discussion. So don't reply. I have no f*cking interest in anyone or anything to do with big brother and turn the TV off/over whenever those I recognise as being that appear. (and most other 'celebrities' for that matter)

I am not sure of the exact word I am looking for here but strange, perverse, odd etc all come to mind with regards to this whole Jade Goody issue.

She is basically dying in the same way she seems to have lived her life after big brother - in the media spotlight. She was famous for being thick. Then she was famous for loosing weight? Then she became a famous racist. Now she's famous for being terminally ill. Soon she'll be famous for dying.

I personally feel nothing for her other than morbid curiosity.

assuming fuctards like catholic schools and the morons who object to mmr dont screw it up

What do catholic schools have to say on this?

[i]The former Big Brother contestant's plight was "very sad and tragic",[/i]

Nothing new there then.

Anyway what was Brown supposed to say? He was asked the question, hardly his fault.

yes, but it would eat significantly into the £million she's hoping to leave to her boys, so out of kindness to them I'll pass up this time.

Seriously - sad for her and her family and friends who'll be left behind. If people didn't want to buy OK to see the pics there wouldn't be that much cash being offered, but as it is on offer she'd be daft not to take it. A matter for politicians and journalists to be discussing? Probably not though.

I wonder what her kids will value more, the money that she left them or the chance to watch mummies last moments on youtube. Warms the cockles I tell you.

[i]What do catholic schools have to say on this?[/i]

[url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2008/sep/25/faithschools.catholicism ]linky[/url]

Well said CFH. (That's twice in two days. Scary).

It's hard to say whether Big Dummy or michaelwainwright come out of this thread looking worse.

Thanks for that andym.

I assume you consider that commenting on the illness of individuals is a good use of government time, and that soliciting such comments is a good use of a free press.

I do not, and that was my only point. I bear Jade Goody no more ill will than I bear most people I don't know.

🙂

We live in a country where it is possible to have a "job" that is being a "celebrity", the rights / wrongs of that are a whole other topic. As such, Jade is doing her "job" now to ensure her sons have some money left to them for the future, so good on her really. As a by-product, as mentioned above, uptake on smear tests has gone up hugely since this has all been in the news, which can only be a good thing.

as said above though bigdummy, he's got to comment on it if asked about it surely? Not his fault.

I don't understand the point of this thread BigDummy. So Gordon Brown presumably expressed an opinion in his personal capacity, when asked to do so. However, in his capacity as Prime Minister he doesn't feel that he should comment on the subject during a statement to the House of Commons.

What's wrong with that - it seems like a perfectly fair and reasonable position for him to take ?

Gordon Brown certainly deserves a great deal of criticism for his handling of the prime ministership, but desperately searching to cane him for every word he utters is frankly pathetic.

.

BTW, I know absolutely nothing about Jade Goody, but I can't imagine calling for [i]any[/i] human being to be 'put down', even if they were racist. And I have nothing but sympathy for a very young woman who has been told that she will soon die and never see her children grow up.

And yes DezB, I would certainly heckle a "comedian" with the line, [i]"it's not a very nice thing to say"[/i] if they made a highly offensive hate based comment - shame on you for keeping your mouth shut when people make offensive hate based comments.

Just to show it does happen, I totally agree with GG.

i want Jade Goody put down as much as various members of this forum want lots of people owned with Bombers and Jeremy Clarkson thinks all truck drivers are murderers. This is an internet forum, full of lively discussion, opinions and sometimes, yes, even on the internet, satire. She was an object of comedic derision when she was healthy and will remain as such during her illness and after her death.

i disliked her intensely when i met her but i would not [i]wish[/i] death on anyone, if you can't see the obvious over exaggeration in my comment then you are taking yourself and this forum far too seriously.

Over 4000 people will die of AIDS today in sub Saharan Africa, why does Jade Goody deserve any more of my, or indeed the nation's emotional wealth than every single last one of them. I said exactly the same thing when Mike Reid died and will continue to do the same for anyone whom i have met and disliked as much.

Gus and others, apologies for the confusion clearly caused. My "statement to the house" is (as I thought obvious) a work of fiction. It is what I would rather the Prime Minister said on subjects of this sort. It isn't a caning of Brown either, particularly. the Prime Minister (indeed any minister) shouldn't have to take any interest, at all. Neither should he get hauled into "Big Brother is racist" rows, "Withnail and I is relatively good" rows, "Peaches Geldof should work harder at her marriage" discussions or indeed required to comment publicly on anything of the sort.

It's not that it "doesn't matter", it's simply that government cannot sensibly have anything to add. In the context of a press conference, a lot of questions do not get answered, and a lot of questions get brushed off with "I'm not going to comment on that at this time". Someone has decided that the PM should give the response he's given, and he's taken a question from someone who was (probably) identified as likely to ask it.

That he was asked it at all says a lot about the quality of the press' use of the prime minister's press conference. That he chose to answer it says a lot about how the government chooses to communicate with us.

The actual position taken, which is pretty much the same as CaptainFlasheart's, is unobjectionable, agreed. Similar sentiments are expressed about Jordan and others.

My bad, I've started a thread about something that riled me, linked to a subject which is excessively emotive, and I've done it in a confusing way. I will save the point I was trying to make until Lilly Allen gets married and the PM sends official congratulations, andthen we won't end up sneering a dying woman in the process.

Sorry all.

Jon

....Then she became a famous racist....

Racist? She'd probably struggle to spell the word let alone be one.

She is a simple bivalve, a manner with which to produce CO2 from otherwise perfectly good air.

Racist? Yes I'm sure you are right. Its how the Nazis started you know, calling people 'popadom'.

My bad

I've got more issue with you saying that, than anything else you've posted. 'My [i]mistake[/i]', please.

if you can't see the obvious over exaggeration in my comment then you are taking yourself and this forum far too seriously.

I'm sorry, I din't see any 'obvious exaggeration'; I just saw something objectionable.

Personally, I sympathise as much with [i]any[/i] Human being suffering. I think the Jade Goody situation makes people feel sorry for [i]anyone[/i] suffering from cancer, rather than just one individual. We sympathise with the situation as much as the person.

Rudeboy, I guess I meant [i]mea culpa[/i].

😉

something objectionable

You're objectionable

RudeBoy - Member

sofatester - Member
For 10k i will kill him for you.

I'll do it for £9k.

well i'll be damned, i'm calling the police right now, you are obviously a REAL contract killer

 

I've just finished writing her obituary, never a happy job when the subject is still alive.

To those who are puzzled by her celeb status, it's exactly because she has no remarkable talents and admits that she's thick as two short planks that the public have taken to her.

She bullied somebody in Big Brother but was only about as racist as many of the posters on this forum.

The usual line that gets trotted out is that young girls see her as a role model because she "made something of herself" - which would be depressing if you then concluded that young people thought being in heat magazine was the only way to succeed from a disadvantaged background.

But I think that's a red herring anyway, I suspect young girls only want to be celebs in the same way that boys want to play for Man United - ie. by the time they're 17 or 18 they've realised it aint gonna happen.

I think people just like Jade because she's obviously down-to-earth, has a likeable personality and was genuinely mortified after that racism thing.

Remember: Don't hate the player, hate the game.

You're objectionable

That's fair enough.

well i'll be damned, i'm calling the police right now, you are obviously a REAL contract killer

Yeah, 'cos using that is soooo going to make your comment look better!

I've accepted that you made it without meaning it. It just looked bad initially, that's all.

Yeah well I'm sorry that it was lost on me BigDummy. I did consider checking out the House of Commons statement because it did seem a little strange that he felt it necessary to comment at all about JG, but decided to accept that it was genuine.

So your criticism is simply that Gordon Brown should not have been asked any questions on the subject at all ? Well I agree with your disappointment with the kind of questions the press asks the PM, but I'm not sure just how much the PM is responsible for that. Yes he could have refused to answer the questions, but he would have received far more stick for that, imo - the PM won't show his 'human side', he coldly ignores questions about the tragic case of .... etc etc.

If you want to blame anyone, I suggest that you blame tabloid readers who demand to read bollox in their newspapers, rather than real politics.

And also the people who are obsessed enough about the Jade Goody story, that they start threads on the subject on internet forums .........

I don't think I am going to accept that people who fret aimlessly about trivialisation of public discourse necessarily trivialise public discourse.

🙂

But I am going to shut up.

Rudeboy, why do you keep switching between yourself and Grizzlygus to post on here? This thread is so obvious that you are one and the same!!

No offence intended by the question, just wondering.....

It's a form of schizophrenia salad_dodger - I can't help it 🙁

Grizzlygus represents the 'normal sensible' me.

And RudeBoy represents the mad voices which I hear in my head 😯

I'd assumed it was something along those lines. Anyway, keep up the good work - your posts always entertain!

Wibble!

I think the salient point from all of this, isn't about cancer, or Jade Goody, or about the culture of celebritism, it's about how sick, voyeuristic and flesh eating society can be. How prophetic Charlie Brookers' Dead Set was. People aren't buying these papers and magazines to further cancer research or as a sign of respect for a dying woman, or to add the trust funds of her soon to be orphaned kids. People are buying these rags to watch someone die, serialised in dramatic installments with colour photos. This is Celebrity Deathwatch. How much do you think Max Clifford and OK have already negotiated for, to cover the Funeral of the Year ?
I don't know how much JG, or rather Max Clifford reckon they can make in the next few months, but hopefully, they'll figure that she's already made enough, her kids will be secure and she can stop parading herself for our consumption, die with some dignity and save the rest of us the embarrasment of partaking in this sad affair.

CaptainFlashheart - Member
This may shock you, but I am going to praise Jade Goody.

She was let down by the education system and let down badly. She's thick. She knows this. But, she has decided to use her celebrity to make as much money as she can to ensure that her son(s?) are/is not let down in the same way. That HAS to be a good aspiration. Brave girl.

Let down by the education system? Rubbish. She was let down by the kind of parenting that's creating the scummy underclasses that are the ruination of our inner cities and sink estates. The 'couldn't give a ****' generation. How the hell are teachers supposed to educate and stimulate neglected minds when there is ****-all input at home?

Those kids, although financially secure, are now going to be in danger of becoming the latest incarnation of the Geldof-Yates brood. Rich and famous for doing ****-all, and doing it in a blaze of publicity.

Let down by the education system? Rubbish.

Gosh, some people know an awful lot about Jade Goody. How TF do you know about the education which she received - do some papers [i]really[/i] publish that sort of stuff ?

And how come her parents where so bad at 'parenting' ? What was happening say, 20 years ago when Jade Goody was growing up, which created the "[i]couldn't give a **** generation[/i]", as you call it ?

She was let down by the kind of parenting that's creating the scummy underclasses that are the ruination of our inner cities and sink estates.

What an ignorant thing to say.

Greed and selfishness are the ruination of our society. We're all part of it; just that at least some people realise it's happening, whilst others just seek to blame someone else all the time.

Let down? We've all been let down. Let down by a society, considering the wealth of resources at our disposal, should be educating us better, as to each others' needs. Instead, we all too often fail to see further than the end of our own greedy noses.

From the BBC: "Goody was brought up in a run-down part of Bermondsey, south-east London, by her mother Jackiey Budden.

Her father, Andrew, left Budden when Goody was two years old. He spent four years in Wandsworth Prison for robbery.

Goody claims she did not get the chance to go to school often, and has spoken of how she had to help out her mother, who lost the use of her left arm and the sight in one eye after a motorbike accident."

You've both missed my point. How can the 'Education System' have let her down when she rarely attended school? Does the law not state that it is incumbent of the parent(s)/guardian(s) to ensure children receive a suitable education?

Oh and Fred, my view is not borne of ignorance, it's borne of experience. I work door-to-door in the less sulubrious areas of my town and see the kind of parenting that is perpetuating the scummy underclasses of which I speak on an all too regular basis.

I work door-to-door in the less sulubrious areas of my town

What as, a baliff?

Sounds like you have bugger all empathy with the people you work with. I suggest it's possible you may be in the wrong job, if that's how you view your 'clients'.

As a debt collector, actually. And what qualifies you to judge my suitability or otherwise for this role?

As a debt collector, actually.

Ah....

I think you prove your own unsuitability, by expressing your disgust and abhorrence for the people with which you have to interact.

I'm not sure whether I 'missed your point' if that comment was aimed at me, I was merely intrigued how you happen to know so much about Jade Goody's education - someone who I freely confess to knowing very little about. You've answered that question obviously, by the proof that you've done some research in Jade Goody's past. I had no idea that she was [i]that[/i] famous, and that obscure details of her life were available to the general public.

However, the information which you have provided would appear to very much back up CaptainFlashheart's claim that as a child, Jade Goody was indeed very much 'Let down by the education system'. It is the explicit responsibility of the education authorities to ensure that all children recieve an adequate education. By your own admission, Jade Goody appears not to have 'gone to school often'. Which would suggest a clear failure by the eduction authority of their statutory obligations.

Furthermore, although you appear to suggest that Jane Goody's parents were part of the "couldn't give a **** generation", you have failed to answer my question concerning how this generation came about. I am to take it that you don't know the answer ? If so, I would suggest that you don't point an accusing finger to problems which you don't understand.

RudeBoy - Member

As a debt collector, actually.

Ah....

I think you prove your own unsuitability, by expressing your disgust and abhorrence for the people with which you have to interact.

Another example of your complete ignorance not getting in the way of you having an opinion.

My comments so far have been entirely about the questionable parenting THAT I REGULARLY SEE and the impact that this is having in terms of educating their offspring. I'm not just talking about formal education either, I'm talking about manners, respect, work ethic etc etc. Many of the parents don't have these skills and neither do their parents. What chance have the youngest generation got - and back on my original point - what the hell chance do teachers have when the kids are ignored at home? Yet, according to Gus, it's the 'Education System' (implying schools, teachers LEA's etc) that's letting society down.

No, not according to me - according [u]you[/u].

Quote : "[i]Goody claims she did not get the chance to go to school often[/i]"

The education authority in Bermondsey had a clear obligation to ensure that Jane Goody went to school 'often'.

And yes, I won't deny that some children because of their background, provide the education authorities with a challenge. It doesn't however, automatically mean that the 'education system' is absolved of all blame if they fail.

Many of the parents don't have these skills and neither do their parents.

Do you ever stop and ask yourself why this is?

Or do you just assume they are 'scum', and therefore not worthy of any Human respect?

In my experience, having LIVED on 'sink' estates most of my life, is that many of the people who live there simply don't have the means to 'better themselves', either socially or economically. This often comes down to the lack of education. Stemming from the failure of the education system/society to ensure that ALL it's members, without prejudice, receive a decent standard of educational support, as children. Educational neglect leads to ignorance, apathy, fear and resentment. Without wishing to defend the undoubted tiny minority of people who simply won't accept the support offered to them, many families are simply incapable of providing the stability and support needed, for their children to have a reasonable start in life. This situation is further exacerbated and worsened, by the social stigma suffered by such an 'underclass'; they will seldom meet with empathy, respect and understanding. Labels such as 'Chav' and 'Pikey' are given to people from such backgrounds, by those who want to elevate themselves above the 'common herd'; people who themselves feel insecure and inadequate, in a society with deepening social, cultural and economic division.

See, when you can't get a decent job, because you don't own a suit, or you can't talk 'proper', when other people look down at you, and call you 'scum', when you can't see past your next measly pay check, or giro, when you can't obtain things that others take for granted; where's your self esteem, your self respect, your sense of value in society? Where's your sense of 'worth'? If you yourself do not feel respected, then why respect others? Why respect the laws that merely seem to bind you in your frustration and despair?

Next time you're out there, try and see things from others' point of view.

Neither does it mean that the the primary influence on a childs up-bringing, the parent(s), should be absolved of all blame if their chidren fail and that the 'education system' should carry the can.

My contention is still that Goody is more likely to have turned out the way she is because of a poor quality parental influence than being educationally neglected by Bermondsey LEA.

poor quality parental influence

As you mentioned earlier, Jade grew up with her disabled single mother not coping very well with supporting her. Hardly an ideal childhood. And yes, maybe Bermondsey LEA should have spent more time and effort with her.

But we have the resources, yet still our society fails those that need them.