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Hi all,
It is looking like we are going to have to implement a Lasting Power of Attorney for a relation.
Let's call them Fred, who is 92 & starting to show the signs of old age - if you get my drift.
The forms were all prepped a few years back so hopefully it will be OK.
Our first hurdle will be persuading them that that time has come.
My question to the brethren is this though.
How do you let them have financial access & yet maintain that needed control.
Fred still gets out & about on his own & goes shopping on his own.
Giving Fred pocket money in to a simple account is one solution but seams a bit authoritarian.
Your thoughts as ever please.
Thanks
Just been through this with my Dad (who's 86). If I recall correctly, the solicitor held the paperwork, and it was her that released the Power of Attorney documents to me after a meeting with my parents (and made some certified copies, which were useful).
In terms of access to money, I've done exactly what you're thinking. Dad has access to an account with limited funds. He can't remember his PIN and has no chequebook, so can do limited damage if defrauded. His cash is in another account that only I have access to. It's been tough on both of us taking control, but ultimately, it's what was required for his best interest.
The bank will give you a PoA card and access to online banking if you need to pay bills on his behalf. This has been incredibly useful.
If he needs care, you can look to apply for attendance allowance, which adds some funds to help.
Best of luck, and feel free to reach out for any advice.
Just following, and want to add a voice of support. Interested as to how the money side is arranged. Father in law facing his last Christmas so MrsMC and her brothers need to sort out for him and then mother in law, who is getting increasingly forgetful.
PoA was drawn up for my parents quite a few years ago, but no idea where the docs are held now. Better check while they can remember!
You've actually got power now to make any changes. A seperate card/account sounds a good idea and you can top it up.
MIL insisted we did everything when FIL died - i.e. all the bills etc so we had to put POA in (we did it ourselves). She still had a card and would regularly draw out cash and stash it round the house (talking thousands). We had to intervene and put it back in the bank - she started it again.
She's currently in a Nursing home so we do all the bills/look after house.
Well we tried raising the subject. Let's just say he feels he's not ready.
Quite worrying. We can see the early aggressive/dismissive/dustrusting stages of dementia.
(and made some certified copies, which were useful).
worth doing before you need them - its not really a risk work taking to send original paperwork in the post. The office of the public guardian will issue certified copies but it takes a while (god knows why they don't just issue certified copies when the process the orginal paper work.
when real need arises running around trying to get what is effectively expensive photocopying done is an annoyance / delay you can do without
As of the OP - we set things up with my mum's bank so that myself and my brother had our own cards and logins for her account so that we could take care of payments on her behalf. For her own card we scratched the CRV number off the back. Didn't stop her making her own transactions but helped guard against fraud and pushy sales over the phone. Later we opened a second current account with the same bank so we could keep a lid on the balance within the 'spending' account again to prevent a large sum going missing if there was fraud or theft.
Theres a bit of a fine line to tread - its worth reading and re-reading what the POA actually says. You're able to help the person you have POA for with their decisions- ie to act on their behalf . That's not the same as stopping them making bad decisions or from make decisions you just disagree with. So think in terms of putting protections in place and making arrangements to make day to day living simple but not in terms of limiting that persons options even if the things they want to do with their money seem silly.
PoA was drawn up for my parents quite a few years ago, but no idea where the docs are held now. Better check while they can remember!
errr 'while they can remember'? if you're the nominated POA the documentation would have been sent to you.
When I did my mums it was easy as I was already paying bills and doing her shopping so suggesting that I take control was a reliefe for her.
Forms were easy enough to fill in and in all cost about £70.
Did my parents in their mid 60’s. In there mid 70’s now and still with it but one less thing to have to worry about later.
Do it sooner rather than later
We can see the early aggressive/dismissive/dustrusting stages of dementia.
its not for you to make that diagnosis
The forms were all prepped a few years back so hopefully it will be OK
you perhaps need to expand on what you mean by that - prepped.... and submitted to the office of the public guardian and you have a document with 'validated' stamped on it?
if you’re the nominated POA the documentation would have been sent to you
No, who holds the POA is nominated when it's drawn up. It can be the Grantee or one of the Attorneys, or I think if it was drawn up by a solicitor it can be them.
My dad set up an LPA for health and welfare earlier this year, and when we were finally notified that it had been registered, the guidance said that until we need to activate it, he can certify copies himself - no need to pay a solicitor...
MoJ is trialling a register system a bit like DVLAs driving licence points check to verify that an LPA is in place. Should be much easier than dealing with certified copies.
he can certify copies himself – no need to pay a solicitor…
in the instances where I’ve had to wave a POA about a self-certified copy wouldn’t be accepted.
No harm in making copies that way anyway as it costs nothing but certainly in dealing with banks / savings etc they’ve had their own ideas about what counts as a certified copy and it’s at odds with the advice the OPG gives.
Watching this with interest. 👍
With my parents it was a matter of saying that the time it will be needed is getting closer and if we wait till then it will be too late. At that point I said I was thinking of getting one done for myself in case I had an unexpected stroke or something.
Get it right and you'll be back on here soon asking "what bike for £5k?"
😎
I my case, my mum's dementia came on so fast, that by the time we needed to tell her we had registered the LPA, she didn't really understand or object! Get it done, because when you need it, you need it!!
Thing we found with the process:
1) get lots of certified copies - silly expensive for a photocopy with a solicitors stamp on it, but worth it just so you are not worrying about originals being returned
2) Who companies handle POAs is very different. Some want every single last hoop jumped through, some are "ok then" as soon as you tell them you have POA! And there is no rhym or reason. In our experience, a building society had no issues with a verbal notification, and yet trying to cancel mums gas bill after we sold her house was a complete phaff!
3) We we not very local to our mum, who had retired to devon, 250 miles away from my sister and i. We were lucky that people in mums village helped her, and then we managed to get some daily care, but that was only ever a short term thing. Because her dementia quickly took over, in our case that was around 6 to 8 months of worry, but then we moved her into a specialist dementia care home local to us. In our experience, for people without mental health issues and just requiring help due to old age, most struggle along until they have a fall, end up in hospital, and either become a bed-blocker, or just go straight from hospital into nursing care etc
4) getting old is sh*t. And getting old with dignity is just about impossible! Modern medicine now is able to keep us alive under situations where we would have just quietly died in our sleep/chair/corner, and i'm not sure that this "fix you at all costs" approach is actually sensible for anyone.......